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120/240V, T104, 40amp with 8/3??

  • Thread starter In Vino Veritas
  • Start date
I

In Vino Veritas

Hello, I want to connect my T-104 up to a total of three receptacles. two (4 outlets) that are 240V-timed, and one (2 outlets) that are 120V-not timed.

The run from the main panel to the closet is about 40', should I use 10/3 or 8/3 wire?

I will be using a 40AMP double pole breaker at the main, the big ones. Is this OK? Remember I'll be pluging the 40AMP T-104 directly to it.

I wanted to have four 240V outlets (two receptacles) that are controlled by the clock, and at least two 120V outlets (one receptacle) that is not timed. The most that would be run on this is 3K on 240V and maybe 500W on 120V (740CFM, and Uvonaire). In my head I see the timer, and the 3 receptacles - that's it. No sub panel or anything.. Can I do this, better yet can someone guide me through this?

I know how to run the cable, connect the breaker and poles, wire the T-104 for 240...but no idea how to get an un-timed 120V out of it..
 
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G

Guest

You dont want to use #8 AWG for that load,#10 AWG would be fine.There is no proper way electrically I can think of to bring a 120V circuit off an intermatic 240V timer,I use the WH40 which I believe is identical except the WH40 has an external on/off lever.You can run a 10/3 with ground to a subpanel and take circuits from the subpanel to both timer and 120V receptacle or run a 10/2 with ground from the panel to the timer and a seperate 120V circuit from panel to 120V receptacle,I see no other options.Maybe someone else will.
 
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I

In Vino Veritas

This dude seems to have done it - I can't msg though. I'd need half the outlets, since the most I'd ever run is 3x 1K's and two 740CFM fans. For now it would be 2x 1K's and 1x 440CFM...

irie-i said:
i also managed to connect the board.



8 gauge wire from a 40 amp circuit into an intermatic timer. it then splits into 120v, the two right boxes, and also 240v through the breaker box on the left, one 15a breaker for each of the 4 left boxes. i also wired in a plugin right to one of the circuit breakers because i have 9 lights. so 2 lights on each of 3 circuits and 3 lights on the 4th circuit. i think my ballasts run about 3a or 3.5a

i think i decided to cover the tables with 6mil clear plastic vapor barrier. epoxy seemed expensive, and harmful. the plastic is left over from the walls so i didnt have to buy anything. ive been spending tons so i gotta save pennies where i can.

irie I
Click to expand...

What about a 240 that isn't timed? I think I can change my Can-Fan to 220.. I'd still need at least one more 120 outlet for a fan, but an extension cord can handle that.
 
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cocktail frank

cocktail frank

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that clock is a double pole single throw clock, they obviously make em.
the clock control is 120, thats why there is a screw for the neutral.

i wouldnt recommend wiring your setup looking like that pic.
it scares me a little to be honest.
 
I

In Vino Veritas

cocktail frank said:
that clock is a double pole single throw clock, they obviously make em.
the clock control is 120, thats why there is a screw for the neutral.

i wouldn't recommend wiring your setup looking like that pic.
it scares me a little to be honest.
Click to expand...

So he is wiring his constant 120V by piggy backing off of the 120 for the clock? My T-104 is DPST also.. Would the cable I run from the main panel be the same, 10/3 or would I need 4?

I know it's not safe to do crazy wiring like that, I think he added the breakers afterwards to be safe?? I only plan to run 2K and a 44CFM fan and a box fan. I can make it with a total of 4 outlets, 2x 240 and 2x 120-untimed.
 
G

Guest

Damn CF that was an understatement.I don't thnik the clock is 120V bro,at least its not on the WH40 I know this for sure.I have no noodles running to my two WH40's.If you pigtail of a 240V circuit to a 120V circuit,if any circuit overloads or shorts you lose the whole kit and caboodle.Kitankaboodle?You lose all circuitry powered by that breaker...
 
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I

In Vino Veritas

I have 10/3 Romex, and I need to run it about 35' panel to panel. The sub panel I have is rated for 100A but I don't need anywhere near that much. I will only be running 2x 1000w lamps (240v), a box fan and a 440CFM blower (120v) for now.

So a 40A DPST at my main, powers my sub directly through 38' of 10/3 romex. At the sub I have a 30A double pole for the timer, which powers 4 outlets (2 receptacles) on 240v-I will only use 2. No space for more lights, the equip is there - space is not.

Can I also have two 15A singles for 120v? I think not and the circuit would have potential to overload. I'd like to be able to power my 440CFM, and box fan off the same panel - maybe add a 740CFM fan in a couple of months.

I just bought everything and sort of thought it out, need some Yays! or Nays! from you guys.. Here is the run down.. I have seedings that are sitting in the kitchen about 7' from fluorescents. The door to the space arrives in a few days, and I still have no power. Need to get power, hang door, and that's it. I'm going to step outside and smoke to this.
 
G

Guest

That 10 wire circuit to the subpanel must have a 2 pole 30A breaker protecting it by code,use a 30 not 40A in the main panel.If you are only powering 2 1K fixtures from the timer #12 AWG on a 2 pole 20A breaker from the subpanel to timer and receptacle box is sufficient.If you plan on adding another 1K in the future use 10 wire on a 2 pole 30A breaker.Yes you can take two 15 or 20 amp 120V circuits from the subpanel if you choose to,the total actual load in amps is whats important not the number of breakers.Total expected laod cannot exceed 24 amps
 
cocktail frank

cocktail frank

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http://www.intermatic.com/Default.asp?action=diagram&pid=377&pos=1
wiring diagram for the t104.
it 'tis a 240v controlled clock.
the one in the spaghetti pic is the t103 i believe.
un fortunetaly you can't control a seperate 120v circuit with that clock unless you plan on taking power off one of the 220v hot legs.
you could make this happen tho, using the TC to control a contactor.
thus turning on and shutting off many circuits at once. aside from what runs the clock to begin with.
......................................
...............................
.......................
.................
...........
........
....
after staring at that rats nest for a minute, it appears that the time clocks line side is plugged into something?
then the load side of the clock feeds that subpanel?
is this true?
if so, retract on my initial statement here.
but it still scares me.
 
I

In Vino Veritas

American, yea you're on point. 2x 1000w lamps, and for now 150W of fan, but later I may need to add another 200W of fan. I get the amperages used vs what the circuit is designed for..and where the flexibility is..

So 30A double pole at the main, with 12/4 running to the sub. Does it matter that it's like 36-38' in length? A 20A double pole, for the timer that will power 1 receptacle (2x240v outlets) for the two 1000's. A 15A single pole, for 2 receptacles (4x120v outlets).

I need to return one 15A breaker, and change the 30A dpst for a 20A dpst and get a 30A dpst for a Siemens panel (main).. I'll have to pick up a 50' roll of 12/4.

Frank, I was worried about that nest too - you just confirmed that if it's too good to be true, it probably is. Hah..
 
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2

20kw dreams

Hey bud, if you are going to run 10/3, then use a 30a breaker, not 40a. If you run 40a your wire can short before your breaker trips. Otherwise use 8/3. **** 4 wire. That is a BS safety measure that basically just gives you 2 grounds. Just make sure everything is grounded and you'll be fine.

Everything here is from Home depot.

Piece of cake. 8/3 to a dryer outlet I wired with 8/3 on a 40a breaker. coming out of a box which splits off to each timer. Makes the board more or less mobile, and you should do the same for sure. The boxes on the left of each side are individually protected. I could run 12 lights off this box if I just switched out the 8/3 for something crazy, like 2 or 0(don't know those larger wires off the top of my head. But there is actually 8/3 running from the timers to the subs so I won't have to switch that out too later.

All 220(240)

Edit: sorry, that's 6/3 from board to Dryer plug, 6/3 dryer plug to 50a breaker :jump:
 
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2

20kw dreams

And let me know if you want me to pop it open so you can see the guts
 
G

Guest

I just awoke and freaked out lol,are my communication skills that rotten?I have nightmares about being misunderstood and being the cause of tragedy though my intentions are to help.Lets start from the beginning again.From the main panel you want to feed the subpanel with 10/3 with ground on a 2 pole 30A breaker.From the subpanel a 12 wire 2 pole 20A circuit will power the timer and receptacles.Also from the subpanel you can run any number of 15 or 20A circuits,use 14 wire on a single pole 15A breaker for 15A circuits or 12 wire on a single pole 20A breaker for the 20A circuits.Forget totally about 10/4 or 12/4 it doesnt apply.
 
G

Guest

In residential applications 3 and 4 way switches would apply.In commercial 3 phase you can take a 12/4 with ground,put the black red and blue wires on seperate 20 amp breakers,and share the noodle.Another words you can utilize three seperate circuits from one sheathed cable.Most would run this "home run" to a centralized location to a junction box and take three seperate 12/2's with ground to desired circuit locations
 
Budweiser13

Budweiser13

Active member
20kw looking awsome man would love to see a picture of the those timers and breakers with the covers off very clean electrical setup...... :wave:
 
I

In Vino Veritas

20kw dreams said:
And let me know if you want me to pop it open so you can see the guts
Click to expand...

Nah no trouble dude, I think I got it. I'm going to start wiring up the sub today. Still need the wire for the main-to-sub run..kinda pricey and the place for the best price is closed today.

It's been crazy the last few days..the babies I had did a big stretch and I decided to scrap them, those jiffy plugs suck - drowned a couple. I went and picked up my rw cubes and I'll be sprouting again in those..tick tock..I want to get some work in so maybe in a few hours I'll have a few things up..

That's beautiful!

The American said:
I just awoke and freaked out lol,are my communication skills that rotten?I have nightmares about being misunderstood and being the cause of tragedy though my intentions are to help.Lets start from the beginning again.From the main panel you want to feed the subpanel with 10/3 with ground on a 2 pole 30A breaker.From the subpanel a 12 wire 2 pole 20A circuit will power the timer and receptacles.Also from the subpanel you can run any number of 15 or 20A circuits,use 14 wire on a single pole 15A breaker for 15A circuits or 12 wire on a single pole 20A breaker for the 20A circuits.Forget totally about 10/4 or 12/4 it doesnt apply.
Click to expand...

I just was confused, thought you meant I would be better off running 12/3 from the main to the sub since I won't be consuming a lot of amperages. So I'll continue how I thought. I was planning to run 10/3 for all of it but I'll do as you say and use different gauges.

I took one of my switchable ballasts and made it 120V. Want to have one I can put anywhere else, MH/HPS..
 
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G

Guest

If you know for certain you will never draw over 16 amps in your room,you can run a 12/3 on a 2 pole 20 from the main to the sub.Personally I'd run 10 wire for a 24 amp ceiling if I was going to do it,you never know what the future holds!
 
I

In Vino Veritas

I'm going to play it safe with the 10/3. If I can keep it cool it wouldn't cost me a cent more to add a lamp...equipment's just sitting there otherwise.

I'll post an update in a couple of hours.
 
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