Can anyone identify this root pest???

4everGrn · Aug 21, 2011

If it's not one thing it's another. Garden setup is eb & flo, 8" pots full of hydroton. Earlier this year I wiped out a root aphid infestation and haven't had any root problems in 2 runs. Recently noticed some plants 10 days into 12/12 whose roots just weren't looking like they should. A couple days later noticed a little claw look, reminded me of what happened when the root aphids attacked. Treated with Merit 75 and it didn't seem to phase them, treated with Gamma and again didn't seem to phase them although they were moving around a lot more after the gamma. These are very tiny bugs the attached photo was taken with a 400x usb microscope, they're smaller then a grain of salt. I plan on catching more to try and get better shots and different angles, but for now I wanted to get this one online. From what I can tell I think it's 6 legs with 2 antaenae that are some what bulbous, although the antaenae could be 2 more legs. Any help is appreciated.

Thnx

overgrowit · Aug 21, 2011

I have some bugs in my soil that are so tiny i need a magnifyer to spot them. i dont have a scope as good as yout, but they look similar. They wont be killed with merit or bugbgone or spectracide

the bugs i have ("micros") are said to be a type of root aphid but i dont know for sure

4everGrn · Aug 21, 2011

I'm thinking these are different then root aphids. When I had those I observed all the life cycles(beetle, redass, micro/crabs) and these appear different and seem much faster. I haven't been able to find any cornicles on these as well. Picked a few new products to try on these tonight, hopefully one will work.

4everGrn · Aug 21, 2011

Well I'm confident these are not root aphids. Anyone who has micro root aphids that aren't affected by imid or Gamma should reconsider what they have, as both those products annihilate root aphids. At this point I'd kill to have some good ol' root aphids over these. Once you know how to kill them it's easy and both the pesticides mentioned are safe to use.

From what I can see my guess is these are some type of mite. They definitely have 8 legs and the shape of a mite. Can't make out any pattern, they're fairly clear in color. The damage they've done to the roots looks just like root aphid damage and the plants are reacting similarly. Setup some test plants last night running different pesticides(Ortho BugBGone Max, Bayer Complete, Azamax, and a high dose of Gamma). If none of these works I'm gonna get on the phone with bayer to talk to them about the compounds in their 3+1 product, which contains a miticide. Here's a couple more pics, I had a bunch of nice ones but pulled a stoner move and they didn't get saved

Last pic is something I call Science Og, been averaging 25.5-28.5% thc :dance013:

wilbur · Aug 21, 2011

mate, try flushing thru with Molasses at one tablespoon per twenty litres ... and then Flush because the M will cause a pH spike.
M kills all sorts of pests. nematodes for example. anyway M at the rate suggested will do no harm.

edit: sorry overlooked you are growing in soil. thus M can be applied at one teaspoon per four litres. others report no pH spike in soil grows

max_well · Aug 22, 2011

hmmmm... those do look different than the root aphids that I've seen. RA can take many forms though and I imagine these might be a different type, or possibly just a different stage of their life cycle. The fact that imid and other pesticides aren't controlling them doesn't rule out RA, as they can build resistance quickly (RA in my room couldn't be stopped by Merit 75 or liquid pyrethrin). What is the 'Gamma' insecticide you speak of? do you have a link?
Have you tried insecticidal soap dunk? some reports that they can be effective on RA in done for a few minutes. Hot water dunk will also kill all stages of RA life (125 F for 5 minutes is done in vinyards to prevent phylloxera spread from grape vine cuttings), but could also likely damage the roots significantly...
good luck and please keep us posted.
Max

OMountainMix · Aug 22, 2011

If they are mites, try Floramite. It WILL get rid of them. a tiny bottle will last you a while.

Midnight · Aug 22, 2011

Looks like fungus gnat larvae or spider mite larvae to me.

Fungas gnat larvae

Mite larvae

F. Dupp · Aug 22, 2011

Scary shit. The first pics look like the micro RA's, which is what I think I have. Have you found any flyers? My flyers are damn near invisible, just like their crawly bretheren. Bayer Complete and Botanigard have hurt mine, but hasnt wiped them out.

Maybe there is a nearby university or something you could take them to for identification???

F. Dupp · Aug 22, 2011

max_well said:
The fact that imid and other pesticides aren't controlling them doesn't rule out RA, as they can build resistance quickly (RA in my room couldn't be stopped by Merit 75 or liquid pyrethrin).

Did you get rid of them? What did you use?

Liteyouup · Oct 20, 2012

Bump on this. I have micros. Nothing is killing them. I've had RA before in the "normal" size. Those were more damaging. These eat roots. These are the tiny ones. Any ideas on a treatment would be very helpful. I've used Imid. No affect on them. They swim in it.

medicalmj · Oct 20, 2012

Liteyouup said:
Bump on this. I have micros. Nothing is killing them. I've had RA before in the "normal" size. Those were more damaging. These eat roots. These are the tiny ones. Any ideas on a treatment would be very helpful. I've used Imid. No affect on them. They swim in it.

Are you sure they are eating your roots? I've posted extensively on soil mites, which are 99.9% of the time harmless. Astigmatid and Oribatid mites are everywhere.

You Tube "Histiostomatidae", "mouthparts", "feeding". They look like they're eating the hairs of the roots w a hand held lope, but that little thing that is flickering is actually a very specialized mouth part to eat fungus/bacteria. So they usually tell you that you have fungus/bacteria/mold on your roots or in the media. Sometimes thats good, sometimes bad. Pythium is a fungus/water mold. Maybe you've developed root rot and they're chowing down. Or maybe you have something else that IS eating your roots.

BTW - Imid is better on insects than mites. Also, I have commercial a miticide, Pylon, and they laughed at it. But I had root rot. When that cleared up, their numbers dwindled. But they're still around and usually just hang around where there's lots of the beneficial microbes I added. When I dont add they dwindle, and when I add a bunch of fresh ACT, well...

Liteyouup · Oct 20, 2012

No not sure they are eating the roots but it seems as though they are Causing the root rot. Roots grow extra slow and all the h202 I could use isn't keeping them nice for long. I have finished a few rounds with them untreated but it seems yet are getting worse. I have ti use Dutch master zone just to have any white roots at all. (it does help but i houldnt hAve to try this hard to have nice roots ) Bleach helps but after repeated applications plants don't love it. Or it damaged the nutritemts or something. Whatever they are, I need to kill the or at least knock em down some. They're spreading and causing issues in my root zone.

Liteyouup · Oct 20, 2012

Posting from iPhone. It's being very slow right now and hard to write. Stupid auto correct.

medicalmj · Oct 20, 2012

Liteyouup said:
No not sure they are eating the roots but it seems as though they are Causing the root rot. Roots grow extra slow and all the h202 I could use isn't keeping them nice for long. I have finished a few rounds with them untreated but it seems yet are getting worse. I have ti use Dutch master zone just to have any white roots at all. (it does help but i houldnt hAve to try this hard to have nice roots ) Bleach helps but after repeated applications plants don't love it. Or it damaged the nutritemts or something. Whatever they are, I need to kill the or at least knock em down some. They're spreading and causing issues in my root zone.

I've been there, recently, know how ya feel. You have FGs now or latelty? I just got done looking through my stereoscope at a root sample taken from the bottom of my hydro-bucket. Sure as sh*t, I have the mites I described. They tend to be where all the gunk has accumulated as I run ACT in my hydro. There are also some nematodes eating the gunk. I can see the nems sucking up the gunk, so there OK. As much as I explain that the mites are eating fungus/bacteria etc., they crawl on the roots, which is worrisome, but they are not eating the roots. I do worry about them spreading disease, which is why I run ACT. Since I started runnung ACT, my root rot has gone away. I tried everything before. H2O2, roots excel., SM-90, and more. Rot just kept coming back. I suggest you look into ACT.

ballplayer 2 · Oct 21, 2012

I had these, and they f'd me up bigtime. I am actually scared to try and grow again. I think I may have aged several years due to the frustration. I maintain that these came in a bag of pre-made soil I purchased. I cannot say for sure that these are a damaging mite, because I dont know 100% for sure. However, my plants would stress by week 2-3 flowering, then quit drinking and it's game over. These mites reproduced in alarming numbers in my soil.

If any of you guys are able to identify these, or describe how to be rid of them I would be indebted to you forever.

BP2

medicalmj · Oct 21, 2012

ballplayer 2 said:
I had these, and they f'd me up bigtime. I am actually scared to try and grow again. I think I may have aged several years due to the frustration. I maintain that these came in a bag of pre-made soil I purchased. I cannot say for sure that these are a damaging mite, because I dont know 100% for sure. However, my plants would stress by week 2-3 flowering, then quit drinking and it's game over. These mites reproduced in alarming numbers in my soil.

If any of you guys are able to identify these, or describe how to be rid of them I would be indebted to you forever.

BP2

One or more types of Histiostomatidae mites, which are a subclass of Astigmatid.

We probably all going to get Histiostomatidae sp. and/or B. Opuntiae. After a few more hours of research I about 95% certain those are the two species I have. They have been documented to live together for extended periods, which is unusual for other soil mites.

If you have them, you will NEVER get rid of them. Ever. And everyone you know will get them too.

Here's the deal. They live (or did) in environments that only existed for a short time. They survived by phoretic transport. That is, when their little ecosystem vanished, they would hitch a ride on anything they could like birds, insects, people, rodents, etc...

Their natural habitat was things like dung, part of a rotting cactus, puddles that have algae, fungus or decaying matter, and other transitory, moist, place with the above mentioned food source. But they dont eat your roots. They are eating stuff on your roots, in your media, on your media or on the inside of your dwc buckets etc...

So if you have root rot, they'll just come right back. I dont even want to tell you all the places they could be right now, you'll just freak out. They're hitchin rides on any hair, or fabric you can imagine.

I suspect most of us that have had stunted growth or cal/mag like deficiencies really had some sort of root problem and the mites just showed up for the feast. If have ever had a fungus gnat flying around, its likely that thing not only caused your problem direclty or inderectly, but the mites are being transported by them. FGs not only eat roots, they spread root rot. And the mites will be there to cash in on the meal. The vulture doesnt kill the animal, it just eats it....

Liteyouup · Oct 23, 2012

Never say never.

Never say never.

I've killed RA and spider mites in a warehouse. There's got to be something that can be done. I have maintained a sterile grow room for over 7 years with no pests until I started bringing clones in. If I find something that kills em I can eliminate. Unfortunately at this rate these things will be alive long after the cockroach.

Liteyouup · Oct 23, 2012

... And I don't know what ACT is.

Alone · Oct 23, 2012

They come with FFOF soil. I get them alot. Just depends on the time of year I stock up on bags of soil for the next run.
I call them "pot walkers" because they walk circles around the rim of my pots. Thats how I see them. They are pin-head size and dont do much damage.
To get rid of them...spray the top soil lightly with an organic Neem based spray. After a week do it again and they will basically be gone.

Can anyone identify this root pest???

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