2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

EDIT:- The title is not so accurate after all, its less space, being 2.5 by 1.8 meters, not 3x2, its one plant less @14 plants, but it now has more watts of imitation sunshine for them to bask in now I`ve added a 400 watt to the 3 existing 600`s, bringing it upto 2200watts, making 45.8 watts per sq ft, just a little short of the aimed for 50watts per sq ft.

Here we go then. Any of you who`ve followed my previous thread http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138214 , you`ll know I`ve been having problems with this strain. Hopefully that`s all behind me though, at least it will once I`ve chopped my current lot down and get this sgrog on the go.

I have another 2 plant sgrog just in the training stage, the screen will be fitted in the next couple of days. I expect this little grow to give me early indications of any problems ahead of me with this larger sgrog I`m planning. All is looking beautiful there though and tey look a picture of good health.

I`m starting this grow diary right at the beginning. The space is going to be occupied for the next 10 days or so as my present crop finishes.

The cuttings for clones were taken on the 19th of Oct from a friend`s lovely looking Cheese plants just before they were switched to 12/12, and placed into jiffy pucks pre soaked with Rhizotonic and superthrive, after the stems were dipped in Clonex. So they`ve been in the propergator box for 10 days now and I expect roots to start showing within the next 4 days.

I`ve had problems with this strain whilst getting them going. Parts start to turn yellow whilst the rest of the cutting seem perfectly healthy. I`ve included a close up pic of one of the cuttings showing the first signs of it, just in one blade of the very top leaf, and I expect it to worsen as they root up, and then will take a little recovery time once potted up. Any ideas what this might be down to?

Perhaps the strain has a little weakness, but if so, I`m not sure what weakness that may be. I dont know if its connected to other more serious problems I`ve had when these plants are bigger, but I know they can produce over a gram a watt as my friend achieves it.

The propergator box is sitting under a 250watt envirolight and temperature in the cloning cupboard is around 80-86f.

I`ll be setting this sgrog up with 3 602nft trays, 5 plants pre tray with a 2x3meter netted frame over the whole grow. This will only give me about a 2 feet border around the room, except for a 1meter section at the back where a chimney breast lies. this along with 2 channels between the trays underneath the canopy, should give me enough room to tend to all gardening duties.

I`ll be nipping out the tops and giving these girls some serious bondage to train them to spread themselves out. I`ll add photo`s at every stage of plant and room development.

I`ll have a 600 watt sodium over each tray, and hopefully going to borrow some light movers from a mate to keep the spread of light as even as possible. At the moment I have my lights hanging from poles suspended above the tanks and manually move the lights from one end of the pole to the other once a day, not ideal but it works ok.

I`ll go through my extraction and other details in a later post.

Any questions/comments, please feel free.

Tokesome

12 days after taking the cuttings 10 of them are showing good roots and are now potted up into plastic cups filled with canna coco pro, pre soaked in B`cuzz A+B at EC11, 1ml per liter B`cuzz coco booster, and some Rhizotonic at ph6.0. I expect the rest to come through over the next couple of days.

There are some more of the cuttings showing the yellowing in the tiny top leaves, almost like bleaching.

I`ve included a couple of pictures here, anyone know what this might be down to?

I`m gonna put up a thread in the infirmary about this problem.

Tokesome

i'll be watching

Lebniis said:

i'll be watching

Click to expand...

Cool mate, it`ll be a while before it gets exciting, but I do believe it will be exciting, so looking fwd to doing a biggish sgrog.

Toying with the idea of just using 12 plants to fill the area up instead of 15. Partly because I`m not quite sure if 5x12liter buckets will fit in each tray. My present system is only using 7liter pots but I`m really keen to give em max root space to enable them to spread out well through the canopy screen and
then support some big fat colas hopefully.

Great news, my mate has a couple of light movers for me. I thought he had 3 which would`ve been ideal, but the 2 will make a significant difference I think.

I have 3 lights over 3 tanks layed out next to each other, I`ll place the two outer ones on the movers and keep the central one moved once a day manually. I reckon the light movers will be an excellent way of ensuring maximum light to maximum area over a scrog set up. It means the light can be a little closer due to it never being in one place for too long, and the light gets to penetrate all the areas usually in the shade when under a stationary light.

I feel like I`m really on it and in tune with my room set up and growing technique now, I`m aiming to really excel myself here and make up for some tough times in my recent growing.

Toke

21 of the 23 cuttings are rooted and potted up now, so I`ll be looking for the best ones to go into the scrog.


Toke

Tokesome said:

21 of the 23 cuttings are rooted and potted up now, so I`ll be looking for the best ones to go into the scrog.


Toke

Click to expand...

21 plant scrog? Holy jebus. That is going to be A LOT of colas.

stonedu said:

21 plant scrog? Holy jebus. That is going to be A LOT of colas.

Click to expand...

Just going to run with 12-15 plants, but yeah I hope for a lot of colas

Well I`m just getting around tp potting the clones up into their final 3 gallon pots. I`m just in the clean up and sterilising process after finishing harvesting the bottoms of my last pathetic effort.

Unfortunately my camera has broken so I cant show any decent pics for now, but the clones are looking great. Once re-potted I`ll nip the tops out and then its training for the scrog. I`ll fit the 2 light movers over the two outside tanks next week and then build the 2x3meter screen table.

I`ll try and put some pics up from my phone until I replace my camera which I`ll hopefully do in the next 2-3 weeks.

Toke ;-)

Hey man. Fix that camera I cant wait to see some more pics!
Awesome start!
Peace

i'm tagging for when you get your new cam. those clones are looking mint.

keep up the good work

Same old problem returns!

Same old problem returns!

Well I cant believe it, I`m having some deficiency/lockout problems already, and its the same issue I`ve had for the last 3 grows. I`m so disappointed, I really thought I`d got to the bottom of this issue, but obviously not.





I can only try a RO filter now as I can only put it down to water quality, even though I have a couple of plants going in a building only 200yds from this grow with no such issues, despite them being treated in exactly the same way, to the letter.

If you`d like to take a deeper look at what is going on here, take a look at my thread here http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138214&page=13


Cheers, Toke

Right folks, sorry for being AWOL, I`ve been solving the above problem here http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138214&page=14

I think I`m on top of the problem now and with a more careful feeding regime (was getting them too wet, I think), along with a switch to ROwater it`s hopefully all systems go again for filling a big sgrog screen.

My 14 plants are in 7ltr pots now and they`ll move back to 3 gall pots in a few days time, and then immediately I`ll set about erecting the screen table as the plants will be ready to train into the netting.

I`ve been doing some strict LST training to get all the main branches up to the same hieght and despite the nute lock out problems they`ve had to overcome, they`ve responded well.




Bondaged ladies



Toke

They look great Tokesome. Glad to hear your getting to the bottom of your problems!

Well I`m still having some issues with these girls but I`m hoping to overcome them.

I have them all potted up into 12 and 14 liter pots, and have all the pots raised 3 inches above the trays and a wick is inserted into the bottom of each pot.

I still haven`t been able to establish a feeding pattern that really suits these plants and I`m currently experimenting with 3 different feeding regimes on the 3 nft trays that I have the plants sitting on. One tray I`m feeding just 1/2 a liter per pot per day, one tray I`m feeding 1 liter a day and the other I`m going to feed until run-off, though I`m not sure whether to do the latter one daily or just feed as I deem them light enough. I`m tempted to go with daily and see if the raised pots and wicks help avoid the coco getting too soggy at the bottom of the pot.

I`ve also made the switch to RO water and got myself a 90 liter res that I hope to set up a drain to waste auto feed set up. The problem is that there is no room in the grow space for the res so I`d have to have it set up from the bathroom a few feet away. That`s going to be a pain in the arse though. I have time to contemplate it though as I`m going to stick to hand feeding them for the next week or two. I`m adding Calmax to my nutrient res to make up for the lack of minerals left in the RO water.

I`ve also upgraded my extraction to an 8 inch RVK systemair 950cm3 per hour and a similarly rated carbon can. However as a freeze has now hit the UK I`ve had to switch this big extractor off and switch the 5 inch extractor and filter on instead. The temps were struggling to get above 70f with the big one on, now they`re sitting happy at 77-80f. I only have 2 of the 3 lights switched on at the moment and will probably spark the other one before or just after xmas, so will probably need the bigger fan on then.

I`m going to build the screen tomorrow, its not going to be quite 3x2m its going to be around 3x1.8. This will just give a little more space for me to be able to get in the door

Here are a few pics of how things look at the moment.

Big carbon can


The Extractor set up, the smaller can filter you can see there is 6 inch stepped down to the 5 inch extractor


Pots raised of the tray and a wick inserted 2 and a half to 3 inches into the bottom of the pot.



They dont look bad here, but its been slow growth to get there and its only when you get in close that you can see the problem that keeps bubbling away


Here are some pics that show the problem from early stage and developing






Sorry I`ve not been keeping up to date so often as I`d like, but I`ll keep regular updates from now on.

Toke

looks like a slight issue with the PH drifting, try to keep the soil moist not wet at all times coco works best this way.. The look well fed dont increase the strength but give them more feeds per day to keep the soil very consistant, wet/ dry/ wet/ dry waterings only slow your grow.

Id even consider a few changes to your setup for the next grow. drip fed run to waste and get rid of the wick i bet all your roots are concentrated at the base of the pot.. food for thought.. I love coco but there are a few do's and donts and drying coco out can mess with PH increase salt buidup and even turn it hydrophobic pockets of dry soil in the pot= dead roots..

i always run to waste in coco indoors and out, more waterings and the more light pushes the plants to the full potential.

Outdoor bigbud and white rhino clones and crosses

same same


Bigbud crown


week 3 Bigbud


Atm i have a Sog grow, a few outdoor plants and a decent scrog happening, Sog and scrog running from the same res with sepperate pumps to drip feed my scrog plants where vegged for 10days, sog not vagged so the scrog drinks 25% more water/nute but both crops get a drink every 3 hours with lights ON.

the scrog 3wk flower



And the Sog grow 3 weeks from planting


stick with the coco in time you will have it rocking

Thanks for the info mate, and great looking grows!

Yeah, I`ve had it rocking with coco before having grown in it for the best part of 10 yrs, but these issues have really screwed me up, I`ll always be a coco grower though I think, having done Hydro for a good few years before that. My confidence in coco isn`t knocked, however confidence in myself is a different matter at the mo.

How big is your scrog grow, how much are you feeding each feed every 3 hours, and what size pots? Are you feeding to run off?

What do you see being the problem with a wick to assist drainage?

Thanks, Toke

Hey Tokesome. Pretty good grow considering your ? problem. I'm hoping your comparison test reveals some good news for you. Maybe a strain switch is in order.
I know what you mean about the self confidence thing. Not that long ago I started having problems and lost a few strains. I thought I was going to lose every thing. made seeds to replace my clones. Sick plants make sick clones and it was bad. But now I have it fixed and I feel great.

I guess cheese is good enough smoke to try to overcome the adversity.

So the wick you have, is that to try to eliminate the 'perched water table' to gain more aeration in the lower part of the pot? How's it working?

Sorry it if that came across a bit rough in my last post.. Not takein the piss, Tokesome

its a great grow you have there and some strains im very interested in following, but something has changed in the grow in the last week or so. you can see its not a problem youve had for weeks any changes as far back as 10days ago?...

It could just be the plants grew fast and waterings where not increased enough its been pretty hot around..could happen in a small pot rootbbound would also be there.

Its an easy fix, mix up a good res double check ec/ph with a good nute but it looks like you,ve tried a basic the runto waste grow before by the dripper hanging in some of the pictures. Give it another go if not already.

Peace Thv

Hey Hazy, yeah that`s the idea of the wicks, but I`m not convinced of yet. They seem to be really soaking even when the coco around the bottom of the pot is moist and airy. I`m a bit concerned it may just raise the perched area, but I`ll give them a bit of time and see how it goes. If I`m in doudt after a while I may pull half of them and see if it make any difference.

Hey no offence taken thc43. I`ve been with this problem for 3 grows now, I was drip feeding in a recirculating set up as I have always done, but going to try and set up a drain to waste, I`ll hand feed em til then. Its anything but hot where I am BTW, friggin freezin!

I`ve built the scrog table for the screen, Though the netting can wait a few days I think.

Toke

i find i get my best grows in the cold (in oz thats 10c to 20c) temps Below zero im sure you'd have a few problems if thats the case, slower growth comes to mind firstly.. but your issue i think is something else.

Id certinly swap to Run too waste for your next grow its so easy once you get the basics down.
you dont have to worry about EC/PH as much, set the res when you refill and dont touch in=t again until its empty. 3 grows of the same problem probally spanning a year so id doubt its temp related one grow would have been better/worse.

It could be as simple as the nute your using isnt designed to be recycled, by mid flower plants are hungry for P and K if recycled P or K could be used up very fast,

do you do fresh water top ups or top ups when needed with fresh nute mix?


I think if you start next with the run to waste the problems will go away. Use a coco specific nute in every feed from 3 to 6 feeds during lights on. Day 1 200ml feeds 4 x day would be enough but increased daily for two weeks or basicly full grown.