2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

[Scrogerman]

Strettttcccchhhhhhh!!!!!!

Strettttcccchhhhhhh!!!!!!

Hey toke,
Ive been studying your grow for a couple of days. Very Nice Monster Scrog!(Understatment)
Yeah, When using Scrog stlye the general idea is a longer veg time to fill up the screen, then depending on the ratio of sat to indica will depend on when you switch to bloom cycle.
Your fears may very well be correct on over training through the stretch. Cheese is a hybrid, although the GHS Cheese won the indica cup with it. I always fill my screen up 70% sati dom & 90%-100% with some indicas. Hybrid's vary, depending on their sati or indica dominance. A 50/50 as i call them, which show an equal amount of Indi/Sati dominance will give a good stretch as a rule, much more so than a straight Indica.
As you know the stretch with these, i cant understand why you are still training them too much through the stretch when you switch to bloom cycle. You should by now know exactly when to switch to 12/12 & how much to trian them duyring their first stretch. You say you have had 3 runs with the same pheno if i remember correctly.
Yeah what will happen if you run the first stretch out through the screen is you end up with a CARPET SCROG which makes Popcorn imo' -Not Good. Bad for airflow imo too & i just dont like carpet scrogs full stop, although im sure they have their place in a limited space grow. I always go for 10-16" Colas which gives me good sized buds & plenty of airflow through my canopy. Knowing the stretch of a paticular Pheno helps massively and i can get my Cola height Exactly within an inch or 2 where i want it.
I hope you get what you want on this and your next run now knowing this. If ya want to clarify anything or just want a chat,then give us a holla, i'll be watching buddy.
I wish you the best of luck...Peace...& Be-Lucky.......Scrog'

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks mate, yeah I`ve had problems for the last 3 grows which have made them stretch unusually. I wasn`t aware that the training in my small tent grow had an adverse affect and I have a similar result again here.

I`ve un hooked/trained some of the stonger main stems today in my "monster" scrog and letting them do their own thing, I think I`ve stopped the training in time and all the bud sites are above the screen except for some of the secondary branching, which is getting much more light now that I`ve tucked a lot of the fan leaves out of the way.

Its going to be ok I think, the colour is getting better in the fresh growth and the main stems are thick and chunky, which they haven`t been for the last three grows and I think I`ve narrowly avoided over training my bigger scrog, so I`m relatively happy with this grow and starting to feel some excitement about it again.

Yeah 10"-16" colas would be perfect, lets see how they do, its sit back and watch time. I`ll be posting photos at least on a weekly basis

Toke ;-)

 

[Kindman69]

You know, speaking as someone who had several 'carpet' scrogs with the popcorn results
I think Scrogerman is on to something.
I mean think about it, if we take everything under the screen off and only have 6" up top, where do we have the vegetation to support bigger buds? Add to that that some strains may not like to be fondelt too much and you may end up with something that looks great at 2 weeks flowering but then just stops See below

Here is a pic of my last 'carpet' (man, I don't like that word all of a sudden lol) scrog

The buds never got much bigger, I was so sad

Anyhow, long story short, I agree with Scroger, tip of the hat
Scrogs need the right strain and the proper accompanying method.

Peace
Kind

 

[Scrogerman]

Carpet Scrog'-Smart as fk'

Carpet Scrog'-Smart as fk'

Kind Dude!
Ahh Buddy Thats a pity, but a lovely example Of the Carpet Scrog, & just goes to show what can be accomplished with very limited head-space/vertical height'. I see Draws lots of Draws. LOL. You learnt the hard way i suppose dude, looks well smart if you ask me & i bet the smoke was pretty smart i bet too. How much if any do you think you lost in yield compared to if you'd of give them less of a train through the stretch dude? Btw i think your spacing on that screen is looking neat bro,skills.
Peace...& Respect'.......Scrog'

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Toke,
Yeah Buddy sounds like you've made the right move there bro, without a doubt. You pretty much know where these plants are gonna finish, what an advantage. Game set & match. Nice Move.. Good luck with it bro, i'm sure its gonna be an easy victory 4 you.
Peace.........Scroger'

 

[Tokesome]

Sorry Rocket, I missed that you`d dropped in again. Wow, I hope the plants can handle the abuse for ya! Cant ya just get strains that are designed for colder regions. Also essential for the UK I reckon must be that they`re early finishers to avoid getting the mold problems at the end. I`ve been thinking about looking into and buying some seeds for this purpose myself.

Yeah Kind, I relate to your sadness only too well, its been the toughest year I`ve had growing in over 20years. I too tip the hat to Scroger. I was thinking along similar lines and airing them in my Cheesey growtent sgrog thread after reading one or two other threads, in fact it was you that mentioned being frightened of stunting plants by scroggin, and that got me thinking about my own experience with scrog growing (My experience with scrog`n is limited to the fact that I`m 2 weeks off finishing my 2nd growtent scrog, and a just over a week into flower on my first ever monster scrog).

I dont think its that the plant does`nt like being fondled, but with all girls its about timing lol. I took some pics looking up from under the screen of my growtent scrog today, I`ll try and post a couple later on today, and you can clearly see the colas growing horizontally along the screen. Of course they didn`t get much light down there and therefore did`nt have a chance of doing much.

I`m sure you wont be put off scroggin Kind, heh heh, otherwise you wouldn`t be thoughtful and involved in these threads, I hope you`re gonna give it another go soon enough.

I think my growtent scrog is stunted for 2 different reasons, 1 I kept training for too long, but looking at your`s Kind, I dont have as much as a carpet affect as you have going on there in your pics, looks like I`m a bit in between the two, the 2nd is part of the problem is down to a problem I`ve been having with these plants in both grows, as even the ones I had going untrained were weak spindley and buds were stunted and did far worse than the scroged ones. I think the water quality is going to end up being a major factor here as the plants just seem to be looking better by the day and the growth tip formation looks really good compared with what I`ve experienced with them before.

I have no doubts at all that Scroger is talking complete sense here, and wish I was in this thread 6 months ago and really glad to have you`re support here mate, thanks.

Toke ;-)

 

[rocket high]

Sorry Rocket, I missed that you`d dropped in again. Wow, I hope the plants can handle the abuse for ya! Cant ya just get strains that are designed for colder regions. Also essential for the UK I reckon must be that they`re early finishers to avoid getting the mold problems at the end. I`ve been thinking about looking into and buying some seeds for this purpose myself.

hi ts.. if you are getting geared up for a outdoor grow i would go for a scandinavian strain as there bred for colder climates similar to ours (e.g typhoon ) my friend esskie knows more ..there might be a thread somewhere.

am going to do my second scrog with 18 cheeses soon once the landlord stops sending workers around to put in digital aerials .... first one wasnt uniformed enough they were all different sizes... damn ...will keep an eye on this thread tho

 

[Tokesome]

Cool mate, I`ll look into that.

Aint landlords a pain, mine are very good though, but I`ve had issues before.

Yeah, I`d keep an eye on Scrogerman`s grow too.

Toke ;-)

 

[Rednick]

Autoflower strains.

 

[Tokesome]

Sorry Red, what about them?

T

 

[guest5703]

Have ya just started flowering? if so that limey color your talking about is most likely just from adjusting from veg to flower. Less light at first makes them look weird. Everything looks super good in my opinion, great scrog you got going there. Keep up the good work! Cool seeing that wide angle lens, I've never seen anyone take shots of buds with one of those...Makes me wanna go get a fisheye lens for my camera! I figured since others were mentioning their "carpet scrogs" I would post a shot of a nice canopy I got going right now. Not scrogged, hope ya don't mind!

Depending on your stretch it all looks good, have they started stretching yet?? They probably have....Looks like you have ton of room for good ventilation no matter how filled in your canopy will get though, a lot of side room I see and that's good for sure. Good luck, PEACE

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Cali, thanks for dropping in and of course I dont mind you posting up a picture of your lovely grow. They look cool!! Yeah I love the super wide angle lenses, I use the canon 10-22mm ef. Its a pricey lens though at £560ish, but I`m into my photography and it gets a lot of use. My camera is screwed though, so for now I have to go borrow a mates camera body, or use the crappy phone camera.

No the yellowy limey nature of them has been around for a while now, not just in flower, it does seem to be improving though and things are generally looking good.

I mentioned a few posts back that I`d taken some pics from my growtent scrog of the clear evidence of over training the plants and the colas growing horizontally along the screen, not good unless you`re restricted in headroom.

Here they are taken from underneath the screen

After lookin at Whythefnot`s coliseum scrog it`s making me think further about putting vertical screens on the outer edges, a bit like wings if you like.

He uses a photo stitching program to show his grow on his thread so I though I`d have a go at a simple stitch together from the front of the grow, its a bit odd and mixed up in the middle row.

I`ve noticed one of my 600watt bulbs is giving off some serious brightspots/hotspots, I`ve not come across this before with hps bulbs, but I think its enough to be giving myu plants a problem. It hangs statically over the two that have`nt really picked up as well as the others in respect to regaining their green colour. The camera shows it up well. I`ve circled the main bright area, but there is a second hot area running parallel to the one circled to the right.

In this pic, I`m just tilting the shade with my spare hand and you can see the bright areas disappear. My other bulbs clearly have a much more even spread of light.

Here`s a pic of the heads poking up from the canopy

and finally one of the whole canopy. You can see they`re stretching, but nothing too drastic so far. You can see the bright/hot spot clearly on this photo, all the lights are on but if you look at the middle row of plants towards the right (where the cables hang down and nearly touch the grow) you can see there is a very distinctive bright spot.

I`m only going to take further action above the screen if one or two shoot ahead of the rest of the pack, I`ll just try pulling them over a bit if I can, as I dont want to pull any buds under the screen and height is no problem.

Cheers for now, Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Oh I meant to say. The last res I made up I added Calmax at 6mls per 4ltrs up from what I`ve been using it @ 5ml per 4ltrs. It says on the bottle use at 5mls per 4ltrs for soil and hydro, but says use at 8mls per ltr for an aggressive formula. Dont know as I need to apply an aggressive, but just thought I`d give a small increase and see if it helps green the fresh growth up. It does look better but not sure I can attribute it to this increase.

I`ve been feeding the last 3-4 days @ EC15 ph5.9. I tested the run off from one of my plants, from around half way through the run off, and it comes out @ EC10 ph6.0. I`m assuming that`s ok for a run to waste set up, but I`m not sure, as I`ve always run a recirculating system before this grow.

Toke;-)

 

[Kindman69]

looking great Toke! I think your screen management will work out great
Keep it up and much of luck to you
Kind

 

[guest5703]

Well great work dude! Weird about that hot spot, maybe try a new bulb?? Are the lights overlapping at the point?? Peace

 

[Tokesome]

ec quandry??

ec quandry??

Hey thanks Kind, yeah the screen is looking good, if not totally full. . . . . next time! I feel confident about having the bud sites above the screen, I`d be a bit nevous if I had a restriction on the canopy height tho, .

Hey Cail, yeah it is weird about the lighting hotspot, no there is no overlap at this point. Think I`ll try and get a new bulb sorted tmro.

I was wondering guys about my run off figures and wondering if I should up the EC of my nutrient mix.


I first checked the run-off because I thought the nutrient mix of EC1.5 may have been a bit high for them at this stage, day 14 of 63. I was quite surprised, pleasantly, that the run off was considerably lower than the feed strength, ec1.5 down to ec1.0 and a negligible rise in ph from 5.9 up to 6.0.

Asking the coco guys about this I only got one response, so far, and that was that maybe a shift up in ec is required.

I`d have thought that ec1.5 would be high enough at this stage, but the run-off is lower and it makes some sense that I can safely raise the ec a little. If they want it and it helps produce the end result then obviously I want to let them have it. Though I`m wary of over ferting my girls, I do want to use the info to dial my crop in as exactly as possible.

Any thoughts on the matter guys

I only checked the one plant, one that is under the hotspot and struggling a little, I`ll check a couple more of them tmro and see if they`re the same.

I was a bit late feeding them today, I`ve got a shitty cold and just couldn`t move enough. It was only a couple of hours late for their once daily feed of 1.5ltrs each, but I found that after 1.5 ltrs, many of them were not running off, which means they`re drinking more. That`s one good thing about hand watering each individual plant, you find each plants requirements easier. A few of them took well over 2ltrs to run off.

I was thinking about the wicks I`m using for assisting in getting rid of the perched water table that you get with potted plants. I`m definitely becoming convinced that this is indeed a very good idea, but I`ve been making some modifications today to some of the wicks. I have one wick inserted about 3 inches into the centre of each pot, the pot is raised 3-4 inches from the trays they sit in. The wicks originally were around 7-12 inches long and would lay on the tray beneath the pot. I had the feeling that the resistance of the liquid film between the wick and the catching tray surface prevents the wick from draining off effectively and it stays soggy wet, however when I cut a few of them today so they hung from the bottom of the pot to just above the catching tray and now they keep drip drip dripping long after the dripping ceases from the many holes at the bottom of the pots. I`ve had concerns about them being able to breed mold spores etc., but despite discolouring to a yellowish brown colour from nutrient staining, they`re algae free. They`re definitely reducing the perched area more than you could hope for without, but by how much is difficult to establish. I figure that the more the pot is rid of the perched area the more oxygenated medium area there is to fill with roots, and less for the bad shit to happen in.

I`d really like to be able to grow a couple of plants in transparent containers that I can put a light blanket around, so that I can remove it to inspect the root zone from time to time. Obviously when scrogging you cant take one of yer plants out of its pot for a quick check up. 12-14ltr clear transparent containers though, where would you get such a thing??

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

even more ec quandries, but all looking good

even more ec quandries, but all looking good

Hey Cali, I love the avatar by the way

I replaced the bulb in the light that had the hotspot, its cured the problem. It must have been some wear or malfunctioning problem with the bulb. Its much more evenly lit in that area now so it`ll be interesting to see if the plants regain their colour in the 2 plants that were most under it.

It may seem strange but I think the bright spots in the emmitted light was harmful to the plants. This light was involved in the initial veg preriod and may have something to do with the light limey colour, particularly in the fresher growth. Obviously nothing to do with the intervienal yellowing I was getting, but as the plants grew and I spread them further apart and added more lights, the 2 plants that were left under that bulb are still showing very light areas and I have a strong suspicion that they`ll deepen up now and match the colour of the rest of the screen. Strange and somewhat unbelievable, but I`m sure its been having a bad affect. I`m going to get a lumen meter and check this out as I`d like to understand what exactly is going on with this bulb.

Well I checked the run off from all the pots today and was surprised by the variety of Ec readings I got from different pots, some ph fluctuations too.

I have 3 trays of plants, 1st with 4 plants, 2nd with 5 plants and a 3rd with another 5 plants and the readings were as follows.

Tray 1. plant No1 ec1.4 ph6.1, No2 ec0.9 ph6.1, No3 ec0.9 ph6.2, No4 ec1.2 ph6.2.

Tray 2. Plant No1 ec1.0 ph6.4, No 2 ec1.1 ph6.2, No3 ec1.4 ph6.2, No4 ec1.2 ph6.2, No5 ec1.0 ph6.1

Tray 3. Plant No1 ec1.3 ph6.0, No2 ec1.2 ph6.0, No3 ec1.3 ph5.9 No4 ec1.4 ph6.2, No5 ec1.5 ph6.3.

(For anyone just dropping in and not familiar with the set-up, I`m currently feeding 1.5-2ltrs by hand once a day to give an estimated 20-40% run-off drain to waste. My feed strength is ec15 @ ph5.9)

So run-off readings vary from ec0.9 to ec1.5 and the ph from 5.9 upto 6.4, despite all being fed from the same res. I`m not sure what all of this means, but I got another reply on the thread in the coco forum saying that the reason for the lower ec readings maybe down to the medium loading up (hogging) the Cal and Mag and once its loaded the readings should come upto and just over the ec reading of the feed. This could make sense if they`re all loading up slightly ahead of each other, but I need to look into this more to understand it, it still doesn`t explain why the run-off ph is upto 6.3 and 6.4 when being fed 5.8 - 6.0 for the whole grow. Also would this be the case in a pre treated coco like Canna Professional? If anyone can shed any light on it here though, that`d be really cool.

Everything is looking good in the canopy and looking better by the day. Under the screen though things are looking healthy but quite messy. A lot of leaves of course, but also an awful lot of fresh shoots that are never going to get a useful amount of light. I`m not sure how much to hack away at them though. Some leaves can stay on down there, I guess the plant will give them up when they`re not needed or not getting enough light and I`m figuring the plant can use the energy stored in the leaves and put it to good use elsewhere.

I need to be ruthless with the little shoots taking off from everywhere beneath the screen though as they`ll only reach the screen and lower canopy and can only be a waste of the plants energies producing a lot of popcorn bud, which could be going into quality bud production above, the whole point of a scrog grow surely.

I`ll get busy with this over the next 2-3 days so should all be sorted by the weekend.

Now to puzzle over my varying run-off readings.

Toke ;-)

 

[Citizen024]

Yo dude!

You and I have pretty similiar issues- though mine went from looking really nice to a bit beat up in just a couple days.

I have mine down to mg, and I am willing to bet thats yours as well. My two grows in the same system with hand watering, tap water, etc. came out really well- and those are the ones I added a good dose of Sweet or Sugar Daddy in. This add plenty of extra mg. I was also adding Magical (Cal Mag+). So I was covered. I only started having problems when I wanted to cheap out and only use the stuff the last couple weeks for the flavor.

Mg def causes N to be hard to metabolize so you get some yellowier growth. Though mine is not quite like yours. Its more like up curl, yellowed tips, lower leaf drop. I get the green veins and loss of green between them. It looks like classic mg.

Trying adding some epsom salts, or you can use something like Sweet or Sugar Daddy.

I am like your man- been around this stuff for many many years, and the run to waste coco is fucking with me. It's the biggest one I have put together. I thought it would be easier, and once its set it is pretty sweet. This one is the one that decides it all, so I pushing for the gold!

I am dealing with a trellis as well. The key is to cut out anything small. Only leave good tops. Put it in before the strech, bend em, and let em go. Then cut out anything underneath the trellis pretty much. Nothing thin and week after week 1 is over. It helps. Only do it for tall lanky strains that dont like to stay up. Also the white trellis net 4' hole stuff is good if you just want support and no bending.

 

[Tokesome]

Ah my purpose is to train my plants with the idea of max yeild. Yeah citizen I`ve been around this for 20+yrs too but I`ve found that that accounts for f**k all lately and I`ve felt like a complete beginner. I think I`m on top of my issues now, but keeping a very close eye on them and watching for any early signs of anything creeping back in.

The leaf curl etc sounds like ph difficulties?

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Most of the plants require 2ltrs to achieve enough run-off now, there are just a couple that are lagging behind, one only requiring 1.25ltrs and one still runs off with 1.5ltrs.

There are still just a few relatively new leaves showing slight intervienal lightening, but over all things look quite lush. I need to keep an eye on this. If I remember correctly, my last grow picked up after initial problems only to get the deficiency symptoms, serious interveinal yellowing, returning with a real vengeance around 3-4 weeks into flower and I could not bring it back under control. The result was less than half the expected yield. If I wasn`t so stubborn, or stupid, I`d have changed the strain, but the plants never have looked as good and strong as they are in this grow, despite the problems they`ve had so I am hoping that I`ve eradicated the problem now. I`m holding my breath a little though as I thought I had it sussed before, on a couple of occasions.

I am feeling more confident than previous grows and have taken these problems very seriously and kicked myself hard up the arse in regards of motivation, grow room specs, my growing techniques and my understanding of the plant and the medium and their requirements. A few weeks time and we`ll see if it all pays off with a plentiful harvest. I`m hoping to have it all dialled in properly from the start of the next monster scrog.

Toke