Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

frostqueen · Jan 23, 2016

Jhhnn said:
I think you're in the ballpark w/ that. It's 2520w over 66 sq ft or 38w/ sq ft. I had really good results at that level of CDM lighting.

Thanks, Jhhnn. I can always shove a couple more lamps in there if I need to, but friends using these are telling me I will have plenty of light with my planned scenario.

I suppose I could instead put in three 630w CMH fixtures; I just prefer the single lamp fixtures for more evenly spread coverage I guess.

frostqueen · Jan 23, 2016

timmur said:
Hey Key good luck on your vert action. I'm putting together a smaller space (8 x8) horizontal room with 12 Greenbeams and 9 site Under Current XL. Orca on the walls and ceiling. I'm gonna veg and flower in the same room. Lights permanently mounted. I'm really curious to see how your setup does once you get it up and running. Wish I could offer some advice, but not really up on stacked lighting. Hydro or soil? My room should be up by mid Feb. Just ordered the gear. Good luck!

Hey Timmur. I thought you did really well with a lot less light? Why so many greenbeams in such a small area? That's what, like a 24" spread? You thinking this might boost yields...?

timmur · Jan 23, 2016

frostqueen said:
Hey Timmur. I thought you did really well with a lot less light? Why so many greenbeams in such a small area? That's what, like a 24" spread? You thinking this might boost yields...?

Hey frostqueen. Probably a bit of diminishing returns, but I'm going for maximum yield per square foot of canopy. Light, leaf temp, and CO2 along with several other environmental variables will be optimized for max yield and quality.

Key Ran · Jan 23, 2016

Thanks for your responses.

I was wondering if any of you know or have experience with both the agro 3100k bulbs and the more bulbous shaped 315 mogul based 4200k bulbs, I wanted to know which of these runs cooler.

It seems to me that the agro bulb might be cooler because of the inner envelope , and therefore could be put closer to my plants if they were hanging bare bulb in the middle of my canopy.. but of course I'm not sure. If its negligible difference between the two, then I'll just have to decide which spectrum will be more beneficial to my other lighting.

My new plan for my flower space is to actually utilize some of the pro 6/750 de gavita hps, about six, with 4 of the chameleon 500w lep units in sequence to cover the said area, then dropping 6 of the cmh bulbs to hang vertically in between the canopy, doing a vert and horizontal scrog type grow.. trees still but using tomato cages and some lines for the screen .. that would be 2000w plasma, 4500w de hps, and 1890w cmh... for a total of 8390w for a flower area that is around 8' x 16' maybe more like 7' x 15' or 14' when it all comes down to needing room to move around and tend to the plants..

Suggestions on which cmh spectrum and bulb would be best for this application... ? I would drop 6 of the 860w huge 4200k cmh in between the plants if anyone thinks what I have planned for the space if it wouldn't be overkill and diminishing returns, i'd love to have the extra watts and the extra uvb from those big bad boys..

Thank you in advance to everyone on these forums, I wouldn't know the slightest in moving forward if it wasn't for all the expert experience and advice I have received from this amazing community...

And thank you to the Northwest USA for making this all so legal..

timmur · Jan 23, 2016

I think the 4200k have less IR and more UV.

bandit60001 · Jan 23, 2016

Thanks for the info again rives.
Venture lists a quad tap core and coil ballast in their retrofit kit with the 210w t9 and t12 elite. As far as I can tell, its the same as the philips bulbs, but ive never heard of them being driven by core and coil type ballasts. Think these would be ok to use?

Im thinking of replacing a dual 400 watt setup in a 3x5 space with maybe 3 of their 210 retrofit kits as I found them for about 100 each with bulbs included. Thanks for any light you can shed on the subject..

Key Ran · Jan 23, 2016

timmur said:
I think the 4200k have less IR and more UV.

Meaning that the 315w 4200k should have less heat, as IR = heat? I also like it for the more uv, but the 4200k is available as the pgxz base bulb with the extra envelope and with the mogul base with the more bulbous shape without the extra glass envelope... So I am trying to figure out which one would be better to hang amongst the canopy, i.e. which bulb type would be running cooler and could get closer to plants without harm.

timmur · Jan 24, 2016

Key Ran said:
Meaning that the 315w 4200k should have less heat, as IR = heat? I also like it for the more uv, but the 4200k is available as the pgxz base bulb with the extra envelope and with the mogul base with the more bulbous shape without the extra glass envelope... So I am trying to figure out which one would be better to hang amongst the canopy, i.e. which bulb type would be running cooler and could get closer to plants without harm.

Yep less heat and I like the spectrum better.

Jhhnn · Jan 24, 2016

bandit60001 said:
Thanks for the info again rives.
Venture lists a quad tap core and coil ballast in their retrofit kit with the 210w t9 and t12 elite. As far as I can tell, its the same as the philips bulbs, but ive never heard of them being driven by core and coil type ballasts. Think these would be ok to use?

Im thinking of replacing a dual 400 watt setup in a 3x5 space with maybe 3 of their 210 retrofit kits as I found them for about 100 each with bulbs included. Thanks for any light you can shed on the subject..

Like this?

http://www.metalhalideshop.com/3881...tore=mhs_eng&gclid=CPaQmorXisICFQGoaQodchoAvg

It's an interesting idea but doesn't drive the lamp quite the way it was designed to operate. The output from the transformer is a 60 hz sine wave while the philips electronic ballast delivers a 100 hz square wave. I doubt that it would be quite as bright as w/ the philips ballast. OTOH, it probably is more efficient than either HPS or MH at the same power & it's a nice price for a truly small grower.

Be aware that the T9 lamps are not open fixture rated.

Jhhnn · Jan 24, 2016

Key Ran said:
Meaning that the 315w 4200k should have less heat, as IR = heat? I also like it for the more uv, but the 4200k is available as the pgxz base bulb with the extra envelope and with the mogul base with the more bulbous shape without the extra glass envelope... So I am trying to figure out which one would be better to hang amongst the canopy, i.e. which bulb type would be running cooler and could get closer to plants without harm.

The mogul base lamp does have an inner sleeve & is open fixture rated. I suspect that the surface temp of the mogul lamp is somewhat lower because there's the same amount of energy being dissipated from a much larger surface area.

rives · Jan 24, 2016

bandit60001 said:
Thanks for the info again rives.
Venture lists a quad tap core and coil ballast in their retrofit kit with the 210w t9 and t12 elite. As far as I can tell, its the same as the philips bulbs, but ive never heard of them being driven by core and coil type ballasts. Think these would be ok to use?

Im thinking of replacing a dual 400 watt setup in a 3x5 space with maybe 3 of their 210 retrofit kits as I found them for about 100 each with bulbs included. Thanks for any light you can shed on the subject..

I've never seen a core & coil ballast for these lamps, and supposedly they aren't compatible, but I did buy several fixtures on eBay that the label on housing said that they were autotransformer (magnetic) ballasts and they were actually the standard Philips electronic ballast that we are used to seeing. The fixtures that I bought were Wide-Lite 630w assemblies for parking lot usage, and the contradiction was pretty interesting. The seller had no idea what they were, he bought a pallet of them at auction, but had good pictures of the labeling and the cover off of the housing. It was obvious that there were two electronic ballasts inside, while the specifications decal on it called them out as being autotransformer.

If you have a link to the units that you are looking at, I might be able to be of more help. If it is the one that Jhhnn linked above, as he said, it is unlikely that you would get the designed performance from the lamp. The performance that they are quoting is the same as the electronic ballast, and I don't believe that a C&C could deliver that. It does seem like a hell of a price, but lamp life and performance would be pretty suspect.

Jhhnn · Jan 24, 2016

rives said:
I've never seen a core & coil ballast for these lamps, and supposedly they aren't compatible, but I did buy several fixtures on eBay that the label on housing said that they were autotransformer (magnetic) ballasts and they were actually the standard Philips electronic ballast that we are used to seeing. The fixtures that I bought were Wide-Lite 630w assemblies for parking lot usage, and the contradiction was pretty interesting. The seller had no idea what they were, he bought a pallet of them at auction, but had good pictures of the labeling and the cover off of the housing. It was obvious that there were two electronic ballasts inside, while the specifications decal on it called them out as being autotransformer.

If you have a link to the units that you are looking at, I might be able to be of more help. If it is the one that Jhhnn linked above, as he said, it is unlikely that you would get the designed performance from the lamp. The performance that they are quoting is the same as the electronic ballast, and I don't believe that a C&C could deliver that. It does seem like a hell of a price, but lamp life and performance would be pretty suspect.

Venture specs much longer lamp life. Dunno if that's true but it could be a function of under driving the lamp at fewer & gentler flux reversals.

It would be interesting to see what kind of results they'd deliver.

Specs on the ballast-

http://hid.venturelighting.com/VLPS/BallastDataSheets/PSMH/V90D5310.pdf

bandit60001 · Jan 24, 2016

Thanks for the quick replies. The ballast im refering to is the one jhhnn linked to in the above post.

rives · Jan 24, 2016

Jhhnn said:
Venture specs much longer lamp life. Dunno if that's true but it could be a function of under driving the lamp at fewer & gentler flux reversals.

It would be interesting to see what kind of results they'd deliver.

Specs on the ballast-

http://hid.venturelighting.com/VLPS/BallastDataSheets/PSMH/V90D5310.pdf

Looks like the lamp life is the same to me at 30,000 hours, with a slightly lower light output on the magnetic. The Venture ballast spec doesn't have a working voltage that I can find, but that 195v open-circuit voltage would be interesting to check loaded. The lamps are supposed to be run at 100v.

The lamp -

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...m-t-elite-med-wattage/928601164702_NA/product

GET MO · Jan 24, 2016

Welp, I just copped me a phantom... finna fire it up tomorrow...

LastHurrah · Jan 24, 2016

GET MO said:
Welp, I just copped me a phantom... finna fire it up tomorrow...

Alrighty GET MO! :woohoo:

Can't wait to see it and get your thoughts.

Where'd you cop it? How much?

I'm ordering two kits with the 942 myself.

All the best with your new gear!

LH

theLumberjack · Jan 24, 2016

might be helpful to those on the fence. about small scale design. I have just finished a full rotation of experiments.

2 3*3 tens with one 315 each and 1 plant each brought me 19 total.

vs

1 4*4 with 2 315's and 6 ladies brought me 15 total.

or 8.5 / light vs 7.5/ light

obviously some other variables.

LastHurrah · Jan 24, 2016

Hey Lumberjack. What's your setup like? Using hoods or bare bulb vertical? Which tent was easier to manage?

LH

GET MO · Jan 24, 2016

LastHurrah said:
Alrighty GET MO!

Can't wait to see it and get your thoughts.

Where'd you cop it? How much?

I'm ordering two kits with the 942 myself.

All the best with your new gear!

LH

Fasho thanks yo, I got it from the local hydro shop in sac, I found one cheaper here, but it was only 50 bucks more at the shop and I get it now and they said i could bring it back if i didnt like it n whatnot, I like making purchases in person more than online for some reason. Heres the cheaper link tho....
http://www.horticulturesource.com/p...hYh_3UlKU3OjfOJS14hV3GOhIEklMg5fBaRoC0R7w_wcB

The Wang · Jan 24, 2016

Anybody want to make a suggestion on which kit to get? I'm looking at the sunsystems vs. phantom kit. Planning on sticking 2x315w in a 4x4 area.

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