Vintage 1978 -1979 Seed Grow

There will be plenty of seeds for all. You can bet on that one. I've got a bag full of seeds i collected back then and will germ them. If all goes well and we see what we get for males and females. I will then make some seeds and share them with everyone who might want them. They will be availible through Dutch and Seedbay. This will be next year sometime. As for the PR that wally has. Well, i also have "Real" PR seeds that have already been grown out and tested. Guess What? They are the real deal and will be germed next year also. Seed will be made and again, shared with everyone. As for Thai seeds. Well i already have a Pure line that is called the Bangkok Betty. Those seeds will be back in large amounts to share. Also will be making seeds from the Wild Thai seeds i got from Gypsy's trip to Thailand. Seeds will be shared from those also. I also have Cherry Thai from RM. Pure Thai seeds from Ray Davis seeds from a nice members that shared them with me and make more. I've also landed some TFD Thai x Vision Thai F1 seeds from C-bay last night and a couple other Thai strains. So, as you can see there will be tons of different Thai genes and most of them Pure with the Cherry Thai being the only non cross Thai strain. I've also got a line on the OPT Thai clone and will be working with that one. Don't worry, there will be plenty of seeds for all and some FREE and the rest at a "Cheap" and very fair price for all to afford. Well, I've really Hi-Jacked the hell out of this one. Sorry, about the Hi-Jack. Last word, I will germ the Old School seeds and share with all. Hopefully we have luck and get some plants out of these old seeds.
Good night and take care everyone

Old seeds

Old seeds

Hey there GoldDustWomen,

That's the spirit! I think there may be a lot of people hanging on to dusty old seeds that they have no real intention of ever growing. Not so much within these forums, because growing is what we talk about, but among the general populace.

I have decided to create a Website dedicated to bringing back all of the “old school” strains. A place where equally-dedicated breeders and growers who are members of our collective can discuss experimental methods for germinating old seeds, get and give advice relating only to those strains that “qualify as old school”, and hopefully someday become the recognized authorities and a major source for these memorable strains.
I think it’s high time (yeah yeah yeah…*smile*) that someone did something about the dismal lack of the kind of pot that really used to make you feel dreamy and good…the sort that made you laugh until you couldn’t breathe.
This is not to say that the current strains making the rounds are not fantastic. Many of those are awesome! But there is simply no substitute for the truly great ones. I’m talking about Thai Stick and Acapulco Gold and Panama Red and Purple Oaxacan. Strains that were so good, the people who smoked those 30 years ago still drool at the memory of smoking them. I personally can still smell and taste the first Thai Stick I ever held in my hands and smoked. And I have sought to replicate that feeling ever since with no luck.
I’d like to change that situation.

Here’s my idea. I will invite anyone who wishes to participate, to become a part of this collective endeavour. I think the site should have its own little forum as well, with the discussions limited to the topic(s) at hand, which is experimenting with methods to successfully (or at least increase the success rate) germinate very old seeds and get them into production again. Once a healthy mother Panama Red (for example) is grown by a member of our group, that plant would become a source for clones and seeds.
And once we…as a collective effort…have produced enough pure strains, I think the seeds should be given away to “qualified” (folks with at least a few crops under their belt and enough sense to take the seeds all the way through to fruitarian) growers for a period of time just to get the seeds out there and into people’s gardens who will hopefully grow more and more and pass the resulting seeds around to friends and relatives.

Being totally disabled, I have so much time on my hands that a project like this would be very good for me personally by keeping me busier. I’m sure there are others in similar situations to mine, so I hope they will show an interest as well.

Any ideas to help me along are certainly welcomed. And anyone who thinks they may be interested in becoming part of a group of people bringing the oldies but goodies back to life is also welcome! Sounds like fun, doesn’t it??

All the best!

Dave (or do you prefer something else?)

Count me in on the project.

The oldest seeds I have in my fridge are about 10 years old (unknown bag weed from Mexico, but I only saved seeds from the best bags - 9+ on a scale of 10). I can't say how good they are since I didn't put any dessicant in with them, I just put them in film canisters & stuck them in the fridge. If nothing else, they might make good tester seeds rather than using the really rare older seeds while we try different germination methods. Unfortunately, I only saved maybe a dozen seeds from each, so I don't have a large number of seeds to work with.

For all the seeds I saved before

For all the seeds I saved before

You'd think I might have a few..... BUT NO!
They got lost in the 30 or so moves over the years.
In the late 80s I started got get only Hydro grown Hawiian.
I was smoking Turkish hash in the early 80s. So they 80s where rather seedless for me.
Was buying swag for a bit in the late 90s before I got into growing and every now and then you'd hit a winner with a few seeds. I remember smoking some herb and saving the seeds because the effect was so good.... mabe i'd grow em out. Film containers full, now lost.

I have a few Old buddies from High School I have'nt seen in years, I'll ask them if they kept any over all these years. Doubtful but no harm and it be nice to see them again. I'll ask as many people as I can. I know people saved these even if they never where going to grow. So they are out there, we need to rescue them and try to germ them.

Great Idea Dave!
Lets see what we can come up with.
Sin

ambre said:

Dave (or do you prefer something else?)

Count me in on the project.

The oldest seeds I have in my fridge are about 10 years old (unknown bag weed from Mexico, but I only saved seeds from the best bags - 9+ on a scale of 10). I can't say how good they are since I didn't put any dessicant in with them, I just put them in film canisters & stuck them in the fridge. If nothing else, they might make good tester seeds rather than using the really rare older seeds while we try different germination methods. Unfortunately, I only saved maybe a dozen seeds from each, so I don't have a large number of seeds to work with.

Click to expand...

Hello Ambre,

Welcome aboard! I quest that would make you the very first official member, Ambre! Thanks for showing an interest in what can only be described as a very interesting venture, to say the least.

You hit on a very important factor...age. We need to set up some guidelines regarding seed age. Should there be a list comprised of each member’s fond memories, or will we decide on a more scientific approach and trace genetics down until we discover the original strains again. I don’t know. That sort of thing is for the team to decide…once there is a team.
I don’t anticipate any problems in gaining enough interested members to make up a “team”. Once there are enough solid members we can put issues such as age or authenticity to a vote. We need structure from the very beginning if this is to become a viable project.

So…as it stands, Ambre, we are a collective of exactly two. I’m so glad you decided to join in on what can only become a very satisfying endeavour for everyone concerned. Shoot…we might even get so good at all of this that we become a commercial entity at some point. But that sort of thing is for the team to discuss.

Ambre, your decision to join in has officially jump-started my membership campaign. I thank you. I’ll be PMing you shortly so I can tell you the names I have chosen for this venture. I need to decide on one so I can register it when the time comes.

We’ll talk again very soon, Ambre. The more people that are exposed to my idea, the faster and better things will go.

All the best!

Sinfuldreams said:

You'd think I might have a few..... BUT NO!
They got lost in the 30 or so moves over the years.
In the late 80s I started got get only Hydro grown Hawiian.
I was smoking Turkish hash in the early 80s. So they 80s where rather seedless for me.
Was buying swag for a bit in the late 90s before I got into growing and every now and then you'd hit a winner with a few seeds. I remember smoking some herb and saving the seeds because the effect was so good.... mabe i'd grow em out. Film containers full, now lost.

I have a few Old buddies from High School I have'nt seen in years, I'll ask them if they kept any over all these years. Doubtful but no harm and it be nice to see them again. I'll ask as many people as I can. I know people saved these even if they never where going to grow. So they are out there, we need to rescue them and try to germ them.

Great Idea Dave!
Lets see what we can come up with.
Sin

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Hello Sinfuldreams,

I am assuming that you wish to become a part of our collective then? I hope so, mate.

The old bag seeds are going to be a gold mine for this project. A process needs to be developed whereby seeds that are donated for research purposes can be identified— or at least have their genetics narrowed down— so we are not growing example “A” and thinking we have some Acapulco Gold, when example “A” is actually Kali Mist or something. Solid structure and dogged adherence to identification processes set forth by “The Team” will be vital to our successes.
There is so much discussion needed to get all of these ideas out of our heads onto a Website. Ambre has stated that she has some Web skills, and that will certainly come in handy when the time is right.

I think checking with the old buddies from high school is an excellent idea! If we all did that I believe the resulting donations of nearly forgotten old seeds would be amazing!

Wow…every new point that is brought up unfolds two more valid points that need to be dealt with. This is really going to be a major operation once it takes off and word of our successes gets out. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we end up gaining members from every country. And some of our members could become renowned world authorities on the subject or ancient bean restoration.
I see a great future ahead for everyone involved in my project. It's going to be one hell of a ride, and the resulting re-introduction of the legendary strains will make the world a happier place. It’s all possible and ya just never know.

Let me know if you are officially wishing to become a member, Sinful dreams. You are, of course, most welcome!

Sure thing Dave

Sure thing Dave

You might want to start a new thread maybe in Breeders Forum?
you bring up a lot of good points.
Lot of work needs to be done before even getting seeds.
Im in
Sin

I just found this whill tag it and follow along good luck i can't wait to see the outcome!! Good to see ya back on the boards.

Reading this read made me realize I had seeds stashed in plastic 35mm film cannisters from around '78-'80.. They've been keep in a box in a house and not subjected to any extremes like from an attic or garage. The cannisters haven't been opened since they were originally sealed as far as I know.

Is it possible they are still viable?

The reason I ask is that I am quite certian that each cannister contains seeds from the same bag purchase. They are also from herb that would have been exceptional for some reason. This could potentially provide some interesting genetics to your projects.

Also, three of them are marked and I can remember two of the bags of herb they came from quite well.

The first is Gummy Weed I picked up in the Bahamas. The guy told me it was shipped in from Jamaica. It was dark brown and was really sticky. When I copped the bag I slipped off to an undeveloped part of Paradise Island in Nassau and rolled a doob. I had been puffing for a few minutes when I realized I was COOKED. Then a second later I noticed a lizard on a branch of the foliage I had taken refuge in. Then I started seeing ALOT of lizards. Freaked me out bigtime! When I got back to the States and shared some with my buds they all got baked too. Was best damn brown weed I ever smoked.

The second cannister I can recall is the one labeld GOLD!. This weed was VERY yellow in color and came in long buds. The taste was really smooth and gave a really mellow buzz.

The other labeled cannister is listed as 3bhw for 3 Bong Hit Weed.

Wow! I was expecting to see some interest in my idea, but this is better than I had hoped for! Thanks to everyone so far who has expressed an interest one way or another. I hope there will be even more replies from people wishing to be a part of this.

Aside from needing people who know how to grow Cannabis and have the equipment required to do so in a semi-structured, loosely-scientific manner, we need folks who can organize, design charting systems for record keeping, keep records, that sort of thing. In short, this project needs help from every corner, from every area of expertise. If we all pull together from the very beginning, making this work will be a very pleasant and rewarding experience for all of us!

Please PM me if you wish to become involved. This way I can keep a list of people who need to be contacted with more information as it comes available. Thanks!

seeds

seeds

HappyHemphog said:

Reading this read made me realize I had seeds stashed in plastic 35mm film cannisters from around '78-'80.. They've been keep in a box in a house and not subjected to any extremes like from an attic or garage. The cannisters haven't been opened since they were originally sealed as far as I know.

Is it possible they are still viable?

The reason I ask is that I am quite certian that each cannister contains seeds from the same bag purchase. They are also from herb that would have been exceptional for some reason. This could potentially provide some interesting genetics to your projects.

Also, three of them are marked and I can remember two of the bags of herb they came from quite well.

The first is Gummy Weed I picked up in the Bahamas. The guy told me it was shipped in from Jamaica. It was dark brown and was really sticky. When I copped the bag I slipped off to an undeveloped part of Paradise Island in Nassau and rolled a doob. I had been puffing for a few minutes when I realized I was COOKED. Then a second later I noticed a lizard on a branch of the foliage I had taken refuge in. Then I started seeing ALOT of lizards. Freaked me out bigtime! When I got back to the States and shared some with my buds they all got baked too. Was best damn brown weed I ever smoked.

The second cannister I can recall is the one labeld GOLD!. This weed was VERY yellow in color and came in long buds. The taste was really smooth and gave a really mellow buzz.

The other labeled cannister is listed as 3bhw for 3 Bong Hit Weed.

Click to expand...

Hello HappyHemphog!

Those beans of your sound very interesting. I'm glad you kept them in such good condition. Once this idea has congealed a bit more and we have some structure about us, we would love to have some of them to work with. Pm me if you think you may be interested, mate. Thanks!

Woooohooo HappyHemphog
thats the ticket. I use to keep them in film cannisters too.
Good for you!

Sin

Wow guys and gals much respect... I am only in my early 30's so I can't contribute too much on the beans... but I am interested to see the outcome. Can't wait actually! Maybe I can donate some elites for future pollination?

m.steelers said:

Wow guys and gals much respect... I am only in my early 30's so I can't contribute too much on the beans... but I am interested to see the outcome. Can't wait actually! Maybe I can donate some elites for future pollination?

Click to expand...

Thats the Spirit!
We'll let MD Pilot this project.
We need lists of strains.
And I'm sure we will need growers to germ some of these as they get around.
Always need the new seed tested too so I think theres a spot for you MS.
Think all Mojavi Dave requests is a few good grows under your belt and the equipment to it. A Member in good standing is always welcome!

Sin

m.steelers said:

Wow guys and gals much respect... I am only in my early 30's so I can't contribute too much on the beans... but I am interested to see the outcome. Can't wait actually! Maybe I can donate some elites for future pollination?

Click to expand...

We will welcome any support you can offer, mate. Perhaps you have some computer or organizational skills you'd like to offer? You could still become a very valuable part of the project that way.
And you never know...once you start asking around, you may find that some of your friends have stashed some old seeds away and fogotten about them. Then, as long as you are a confident grower with proper equipment, you may join in on the grow experiments as well. What say?

.....keep in mind that most of those 70's sativa strains were grown under the blazing tropical sun at altitude, they probably grew for 4 ~ 6 months in veg mode then flowered for 4 or 5 months and would be ideal for outdoor growing Florida or further south...if planted indoors don't expect to capture the same high under a 400 HPS...( and there's tolerance to think of too...I think you will be lucky if the strain rates a 7/10..but that's ok, so long as the high has that sativa complexity)

another thing to keep in mind is those seeds were probably the result of hermies ..so make sure to fully grow test out those resulting seeds out several times before you even consider giving or selling them!

the best thing to do would be grow them indoors until they show sex then clone the females and grow them indoors and keep some for the '06 outdoor growing if you have a mild November ~ January.....long season sativas are best grown indoors from clones as they are mature and stay much more compact and are easier to handle...and for seedlings it's best to grow then outdoors where they can show their best, then clone the good ones in early Fall as they gradually get into flower mode

Chamba said:

.....keep in mind that most of those 70's sativa strains were grown under the blazing tropical sun at altitude, they probably grew for 4 ~ 6 months in veg mode then flowered for 4 or 5 months and would be ideal for outdoor growing Florida or further south...if planted indoors don't expect to capture the same high under a 400 HPS...( and there's tolerance to think of too...I think you will be lucky if the strain rates a 7/10..but that's ok, so long as the high has that sativa complexity)

another thing to keep in mind is those seeds were probably the result of hermies ..so make sure to fully grow test out those resulting seeds out several times before you even consider giving or selling them!

the best thing to do would be grow them indoors until they show sex then clone the females and grow them indoors and keep some for the '06 outdoor growing if you have a mild November ~ January.....long season sativas are best grown indoors from clones as they are mature and stay much more compact and are easier to handle...and for seedlings it's best to grow then outdoors where they can show their best, then clone the good ones in early Fall as they gradually get into flower mode

Click to expand...

Sage advice, my friend. You sound like the sort of person we could really use for this project. The mnore knowledgeable people we can pull onboard, the better off this entire program will be. All of this advice will be added to the already grwoing information base I've started collecting.

If you like, please E-mail me @ [email protected] Thanks for the information. That will be very helpful when the time comes!

Random Info Collection

Random Info Collection

Here's a random collection of stuff relating to old seeds & germinating them.


An interesting thread on Overgrow (I haven't finished reading it all yet): http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showthread.php?threadid=267773


There are some "heritage" garden websites on the net that might be very useful for information. I'll see what I can find.


Interesting websites:
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.com/GibberellicAcid.htm (also check their germination page for more good info)

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~merlyn/seedsaving.html


Books that sound interesting/useful:

SEED TO SEED: Seed Saving Techniques For The Vegetable Gardener, Second Edition, Ashworth, 2002. Paperback, 228pp, 1 lb 9 oz. $24.95
The most informative & detailed book on small-scale vegetable seed production we have seen. Covers pollination methods, isolation requirements, bagging and caging, harvesting, cleaning, drying and storage for 160 vegetables. The author has many years of experience maintaining unusual vegetable varieties, and is a Curator with the Seed Saver's Exchange. Highly recommended and a must for anyone saving their own seed. The methods are applicable to many other cultivated & wild plants.

PRINCIPLES & PRACTICES of SEED STORAGE, USDA Agriculture Handbook No. 506. Justice & Bass, 1978. 289pp, 1 lb. $19.50
Covers factors affecting seed storage life-- seed characteristics, storage temperature & humidity, etc. Also drying, storage structures, packaging, monitoring, and records of old and ancient seeds. A wealth of practical & technical info for the professional.


Tips I found for germinating old seeds:

The main problem in old seeds is that the sugars inside degrade over time,thus the seed doesn't have enough energy to crack.

Pre Germination: Soak in a cup of water with a teaspoon of organic maple syrup and a pinch of rooting powder #2. This will rehydrate the sugar content and the IBA in the rooting powser will aid in intial root formation. I got 16 out of 300 1974 seeds to work with this method


(another)
Last year I germinated some 10+ (15+?) year old seeds and had about 85% success. Here is what I did.

The seeds were found in an old glass container which was buried in the back of a freezer. We'd moved this conatiner many times from apartment to house to blah blah blah.. well finally my wife opened it to see what was inside. The seeds inside appeared as though they were freshly packed, and while cold, still smelt moist.

I got some cold tap water (unknown pH.. I've never tested it nor have I ever had any problems) and partially filled a cup. I let the cup sit for 24 hours to become room temperature, and then airated it with a pump. In the cup I plopped the 31(?) seeds and placed it in an area that is a constant 80-81F. After 36 hours, the seeds were swollen with moisture. I airated the water again with an aquarium pump, and prepared a moist paper towel using the water from the cup. The seeds were placed into the papertowel which was saran wrapped onto a plate to keep some moisture. Every 12 or so hours the saran cover was removed to allow for some fresh air, remoistened with freshly airated water as required. After about 10 days of this I had the first group of seeds germinate, which were transplanted into appropriate containers.

Once the first group of seeds were removed, I replaced the paper towel, used fresh water with the addition of No-Damp. Same senario, saran wrap allowing fresh air, remoistening as required. Somewhere between day 14 or 15, another group of seeds were sprouted and transplanted.

At this point the paper towel was once again replaced. Fresh water with the addition of No-Damp and VitaMax (a B-1 solution) was added to the water. At day 22, all the seeds had split open, only some of them showing tails. The ones with tails were transplanted. Day 24 and 25 a few more were moved to dirt, by day 30 the 3 or 4 seeds that did not grow tails were disposed of.


(another - From Memy Selfandi)
a 9:1 solution of household (5%) bleach and water can be beneficial as a seed soak to protect against fungus. with old seeds, that might be important.

1 oz bleach diluted to 10 oz with water should improve your results if they're cracking, but not sprouting.


(another)
I have found water and H2O2 is excellent for germinating. i beileve ideally 20 ppm, so calculate from your bottle. the extra O2 really boosts germination.


That's it for tonight. Way past bedtime here....

A wealth of information here...thank you very much, Ambre! This is going so much better than I had hoped, much sooner thatn I expected. I am getting lots of messages from people wnating to be a part of this. I am very encouraged toi say the least!

I will go through all of the information you have suggested, Ambre. I suggest the other's who are coming on board with us do the same so we're all up to speed.

Thanks again, Ambre...well done!

Dave:

I might also suggest that we quit "hijacking" Sin's thread and start a new thread of our own. It might fit better in the Breeder's Forum.