Broad Mites?

Peacemonger · Jul 3, 2012

Overfert , thirty five years growing. Don't use the tobbaco thing. Did I say don't use the tobacco ...LOL....LOL just friggin cracks me up. Don't use the tabbaco thing, PLEASE don't use the tobacco. Here is what it looks like to me. Could be any of these or all of these. Overfert, PH way out of line, lights too close, Wrong ferts, 100/5/ 50/...If I would quess I would say planting medium is completely wrong as well. All the best , good luck.

Peacemonger · Jul 3, 2012

I have had broad mites and the classic symptom is upward cupping and other damage...I have to admit I have not read all of this thread....But just looking at your picture I would say anything else but broad mites , but if you see them crawling around ,well I quess it's broad mites.

Peacemonger · Jul 3, 2012

Some help for U

Some help for U

Peacemonger said:
I have had broad mites and the classic symptom is upward cupping and other damage...I have to admit I have not read all of this thread....But just looking at your picture I would say anything else but broad mites , but if you see them crawling around ,well I quess it's broad mites.

I thought I had Mosaic, then I thought I had broad mites. (even though after weeks of trying to find one single broad mite I could not) ....So here is what I did ....(This whole long winded story goes like this)...As long as your an experienced grower...here goes...aaahhhh well , Put up "hot shot" no pest strips (something I would never normally do) in flower room before turning to 12/12 for ten days, at the same time period I sprayed my plants with two baby aspirins per quart of water once a week for four weeks, (still with me)..hehe, I feel like putting up pictures of my plants as they look super duper healthy ,lush, green, picture of health.

stasis · Jul 3, 2012

Norkali.. You deffo got 'em. Not news to you, though.. That bleaching of the Leaf Margins is also a telltale sign. I am not sure of the complete efficacy of SNS products on BM's. But, Good luck fo sho..

I recommend that you read the thread Peacemonger... Many Good Growers have gone through Hell with these Mites... Others' Experiences and Personal Research is very helpful, as you know with 35 years experience...

These bugs are no joke.. No 'UFO' that we are guessiing about. The first mistake people make with BM's (as I did) was not recognizing their presence until the infestation is well advanced. They can WIPE PEOPLE OUT in Veg or Flower, Indoors or Out.

the gnome · Jul 3, 2012

have you scoped your plants and actually seen any norcali?
or any eggs sacs?
that's not the broad mite symptoms I'm use to seeing,
at that stage the leaves would be a lot more
taco'd to the point of of the leaf margins rolling in on themselves.
your seem to be frying up from to much or not enough of something?

I may be wrong but I just don't think it is
regardless you need to scope those out asap.
BMs can take out a grow in less than a few weeks unchecked.
if its not BMs whatever it is seems to be doing a good job of decimating your crop

Peacemonger · Jul 3, 2012

Surfing

Surfing

stasis said:
Norkali.. You deffo got 'em. Not news to you, though.. That bleaching of the Leaf Margins is also a telltale sign. I am not sure of the complete efficacy of SNS products on BM's. But, Good luck fo sho..

I recommend that you read the thread Peacemonger... Many Good Growers have gone through Hell with these Mites... Others' Experiences and Personal Research is very helpful, as you know with 35 years experience...

These bugs are no joke.. No 'UFO' that we are guessiing about. The first mistake people make with BM's (as I did) was not recognizing their presence until the infestation is well advanced. They can WIPE PEOPLE OUT in Veg or Flower, Indoors or Out.

I grew up at "Sunset Beach" in Cali. From 1960 to 1980...surfed my life into heaven. Then I saw people coming from all the east states to destroy all that was good. I remember all the good surf when nobody was there but a dolphin to welcome me in the morning mist and fog.

Grow Tech · Jul 3, 2012

Norkali-
FWIW, thats not consistent with the way my BM damage looked. The only way to know is to scope your plants & then scope them some more. I'm not saying it's impossible for you to have BM & never see them but...if you're going to have pronounced damage, the population would have to be high enough that you could find some with a decent scope & a steady hand

Dave Coulier · Jul 3, 2012

Norkali, like others have said, I dont think you have broad mites. None of those symptoms match what I had occur when I had broad mites. Although, Ive had the same burned leaf margins when I have over-fed sativas, but not nearly that bad.

To be safe though, get a scope and go searching for them. If you dont find them after ten-15 minutes I highly doubt you have them. They're very easy to spot when you have a severe infestation.

stasis · Jul 3, 2012

It would take a lot of deficiency and/or overfeeding to cause such ill-health in your leaves..
Most Nutrient regimens followed even remotely closely, will disallow such deficiencies..
I can tell simply by the texture of the Back of the leaf facing the camera that there are BM's there.

I would wish for you that it was NOT BM's, 'cause they are The Scourge, but I suspect it is. Nothing else quite does 'that sort' of damage. The edges of the leaf yellowing. That was NEW to me.. Completely Befuddled.

In My Case: Tossed around ideas of deficiencies and water issues until it was almost too late..

Course of events:

I was setting up my Garden after working elsewhere for 2 years..

My Friend said, check for "Broad Mites."
They are showing up especially on "Club Clones."
I laughed, "What are Those..?" As I watered my "Club Clones..."

Then, weeks later, I saw them, did the research, and was HORRIFIED.

Almost lost a good portion of my Outdoor crop, before it even got outdoors...! Don't let that happen to you, people..
In 9 years, I have never experienced such a terrible Pest Situation..~!

Look through a loupe scope.. Center on and under the spines of the leaves, new and old (they are VERY small).
Then no more guessing necessary.

Recommended: AVID 1ml/g + wetting agent --- 1-4 applications as later generations of eggs hatch - 7-10 days apart - -

+ the addition of a Silica Product to your feed, in order to make the skin of the leaves stronger against the sucking of BM's/the venom they produce, and the whole plant more resilient.

IMO, the Silica helped me to eradicate the BM's.
There are a few choices out there. Silica Blast, Rhino Skin (prob the best product, but most expensive),
and DynaGro Protekt - which I am using with every feeding at a rate of 2ml/g.

Good Luck.

Addendum: 1120am 0703. Checking some likely leaves on various plants, based on appearance, I found ONE live BM feasting on a lush leaf of one of the greenhouse Soma A+'s.. Very slight damage, visually... Quite a few plants in there, so I'm not surprised. Will Spray again tomorrow AM. These plants have had only one spraying so far.

Phillthy · Jul 3, 2012

his damage looked exactly as mind did on some plants. verified broad mites.

the gnome · Jul 3, 2012

if it is BMs then scoping with just a jewelers loupe will be easy to spot em off,
at that stage of damage there are hundreds---thousands on the plant.

one of the reasons i don't think its BM's is that only the older leaves are showing the worst damage.
BMs start with the new growth 1st,
then as populations grow males grab females and go and stake out their own territory and eventually this leads to the fan leaves which are not the 1st choice for homesteading BMs.
by the time you see that kind of damage on the older leaves the new growth tips are dead/ or nearly decimated beyond repair,
I'm not seeing this in the pic.
given it is kinda hard to see the new growth in NCs pic

c'mon norcali.. were all waiting

stasis · Jul 3, 2012

the gnome said:
one of the reasons i don't think its BM's is that only the older leaves are showing the worst damage.
BMs start with the new growth 1st,
then as populations grow males grab females and go and stake out their own territory and eventually this leads to the fan leaves which are not the 1st choice for homesteading BMs.
by the time you see that kind of damage on the older leaves the new growth tips are dead/ or nearly decimated beyond repair,
I'm not seeing this in the pic.

Good points.. My Fan leaves were also infested, but yes, the BM Population was WELL advanced by then. Bastards.

It's awful quiet up in the Sticks in the Dog Days of Summer - wish I could do that.. Didn't know about the Wifenapping part.. Nature is a Genius, Ya.. ?

Now, it is a mystery that we are all a part of..

Frankly, I hope Brotherman just tripped over a can of yellow paint, and some of it strategically landed on the outer margins of the leaves only.

These bugs are an Increasing problem, and many are not aware of their advance within the Medical Marijuana Community. Which aids their prolific growth.

the gnome · Jul 3, 2012

stasis said:
Good points.. My Fan leaves were also infested, but yes, the BM Population was WELL advanced by then. Bastards.

These bugs are an Increasing problem, and many are not aware of their advance within the Medical Marijuana Community. Which aids their prolific growth.

I had these as early as nov-dec 2010 and it took me nearly a 14 months to figure out the prob
but yes they are spreading in the canabis comunity,
and doing it like wild fire because they are so small,
150th of an inch,
and people never know they have them until the populations of BMs are big enough that the toxins in their saliva start
to affect the host plant.

its interesting how/why the mites migrate to the older leaves.
when the male BM living in the nice and easy eating new growth goes out to find his lady broad mite that's ready to breed he will actually pick her up and carry her back to his own *territory*
male BMs are territorial, so when all the prime living spots in the new growth are taken,
the up and coming generations have to move out farther to find prime spots,
eventually as they are also taken the mites will start to move on to less than ideal secondary growth and then to the fans.

I actually saw this occur with my last bout with them
its actually pretty amusing really,
they look like overly plump little piggy banks anyways but to see a plump little male toting off his prized equally plump female is pretty amusing when you know exactly what your witnessing

stasis · Jul 3, 2012

Ahhhh - I just saw a few more.. Not many, and one at a time.

When one is aware of the effect on the leaves, it is a bit easier to find them before they infest. A slight yellowing of new growth, is the first stage.

Will go out and 'lollipop' the plants first just a bit, to get rid of lower places to hide.

Then tomorrow AM, it's AVID time again. Oh, Joy... Really dislike using it.

Feels like I am close to beating them in the whole greenie, though. And I have to take clones - so spraying now is OK.

Phillthy · Jul 4, 2012

i had that exact damage on a white jones plant. the mite damage manifested itself other ways with other strains. from over watering symptoms to over fert symptoms. the tell tail sign is how those fuckers fry your buds. i mean no white pistols at all.

RetroGrow · Jul 4, 2012

Broad/Cyclamen mites don't like heat. It was pointed out earlier that hot water dunks are effective. I have found that heating your grow space to 115-120 degrees will kill them. This will not hurt your plants, believe it or not, but keep exposure to those temperatures limited to 30-45 minutes. If you are running enough lights, just shutting off the AC might bring those temperatures. If not, add a space heater and monitor the temps. The mites will die, but the damn eggs persist, so as with all other treatments for these mites, repetition is necessary.
The other point I wanted to make regarding the difficulty seeing them is: you may never actually see a living mite, but you will see the eggs, predominately on the bottoms of the fans, but they do lay them on the top occasionally. The eggs are easy to see with a scope of 100X or more. So if in doubt, look for the eggs, not the mites.

stasis · Jul 4, 2012

Retro, it would appear that there is no EFFECTIVE and SAFE way to immerse plants in Hot air or water at such a high temp for long enough to kill ALL the BM's.

Stresses the plants too much.

The Eggs can be seen with a scope of 20X or more, so can the Insects... Based on what we have learned here, AVID Is the only miticide that will eradicate the whole colony.

the gnome · Jul 4, 2012

I agree retro,
the eggs with their unique pattern are tell tale signs and the easiest way to tell if you have/had BMs
even if your using a low powered loupe/scope.
if they have laid eggs you'll easily spot the eggs before the mites
i have a jewelers loupe, probably a 25x... something like that and a 60x 100x zoom.
eggs are easy to spot with the loupe, mites can also be spotted with it but its more difficult unless they are moving and you know what your looking for.
once you've seen them with the 60x and you know what to look for the loupe works fine for quick scanning.
now i scan with the loupe and if i see something suspicious i break out the 60x.

forbid works as good as avid and has a residual action and is a
translaminar like avid.
even though the instructions say the mite do not build resistance to forbid like avid
i still rotate between the two.
a good spray down with volck oil kills reg. mites and its an ovacide and has a very low order of toxicity.but if you do a good job with avid or forbid the hatchlings get done in by the residual action, if not the 2nd spray down after 4wks does the job.

the heat is something that needs to be pursued and when i get my next batch of clones up I will be trying the dunk in water @-109.4-120.2 degrees F
to see what the plants can and will tolerate.
115F is the equivilant of water you'd take a nice long hot soaking bath in.

RetroGrow · Jul 4, 2012

stasis said:
Retro, it would appear that there is no EFFECTIVE and SAFE way to immerse plants in Hot air or water at such a high temp for long enough to kill ALL the BM's.

Stresses the plants too much.

The Eggs can be seen with a scope of 20X or more, so can the Insects... Based on what we have learned here, AVID Is the only miticide that will eradicate the whole colony.

Professional greenhouses use the dunking in hot water to kill them. The hot air method DOES work, and it doesn't hurt the plants at all. I have witnessed this multiple times. Plants were fine after 45 minutes @ 117 degrees f. Mites were dead.
But the eggs live on, as they do with Avid, so repeated treatments are necessary.
Forbid probably works better than Avid, as it is an ovicide, which Avid isn't. Problem with Forbid is the cost is extreme. Problem with both of them is they are extremely toxic.

stasis · Jul 4, 2012

With all due respect, Retro, posts earlier in this thread point out that people had problems with the high temp treatment.

They MAY have been only using hot water, though.. So perhaps you got something there.. My plants are outside, so it is a little different.

Sincerely, GOOD ON YA and your people for beating the Scourge...

Recent experience from people on this thread shows that Forbid works as an alternating Ovacide, but did not kill the insects directly. I am using Avid alone as little as possible - addressing every new generation of BM's.. So far so good... If it does not work, I will look into Forbid.

This Website in general, and this thread in particular have been very helpful in my pursuits..
It's not as important to be "Right," IMO, but to learn and spread the knowledge.. Just like us all, Ya..?

Wonder whazzup with our Compatriot Norkali ?? --- Those plants looked like they were Hurtin'. What's the verdict..? Hanging on the edge of our seats..! Wishin' for the best..

Broad Mites?

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