Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

RetroGrow · Apr 13, 2013

specialeddy said:
RetroGrow good info, in your experience have you seen any of the yellow leaves come back around. Most of my girls look good , but a few have been hit pretty well. Oh ya medicalmj....lol no bro not going blind a little hard on the hearing. And ya I enjoy reading , but I use my scope to confirm that yes it is a RA . So I dont know how much money you would like to lose on my infestation but I take cash

I only had them once. One treatment completely eradicated them, and have never seen another one.
They are a walk in the park compared to Broad Mites, the new plague that is spreading like wildfire. If you get them by buying/swapping clones, you are in for the fight of your life and a huge nightmare, as they are microscopic and it could be awhile before you even know what it is. My advice to everyone is to stay away from dispensary clones. Once these are in your house, you will never totally get rid of them.

Granger2 · Apr 13, 2013

Grow Store or nursery. Bags of soil infested w/RA's. Bags of soil torn or punctured. Bags of coco nearby. Some torn or punctured. =Coco that comes w/RA's.

Grower's storeroom. Bag or more of soil w/RA's. Bags of coco. =Coco w/RA's. -granger

ozzieAI · Apr 13, 2013

Granger2 said:
Grow Store or nursery. Bags of soil infested w/RA's. Bags of soil torn or punctured. Bags of coco nearby. Some torn or punctured. =Coco that comes w/RA's.

Grower's storeroom. Bag or more of soil w/RA's. Bags of coco. =Coco w/RA's. -granger

sorry but why would any insect infest an environment that contains nothing to support it?

see...i could understand if soil contaminated with RA got mixed with coco, but seriously doubt if RA would lay eggs in a totally dry media devoid of any nutritional value.

Minister · Apr 13, 2013

@ Retrogrow
Thanks for answering.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=258579
"Are people still getting root aphids from coco?"

Most answers in the thread is no, but you are totally ruling out the possibility of coco being a source, because you have examined your bags with a microscope?

What are the chances here? They are minute and it takes one maybe two to fuck you up.

I´m happy you are happy. But there´s no reason to be over confident. Not that I don´t want to believe you.
Please, no arguing coming from here, just an other perspective.

RetroGrow · Apr 14, 2013

ozzieAI said:
sorry but why would any insect infest an environment that contains nothing to support it?

see...i could understand if soil contaminated with RA got mixed with coco, but seriously doubt if RA would lay eggs in a totally dry media devoid of any nutritional value.

Exactly. RAs live in soil, not coconuts. This does not mean that people in other mediums can't get them, but ultimately the source of all RAs is soil, their habitat. As far as that nonsense about RAs escaping from their bags of soil in grow shops and breaking into the bags of coco is absurd. This is "Zors" ridiculous argument. Haven't seen him around after he made a fool of himself. Maybe he changed his handle to "Granger", who parroted "Zors" theory. There is no evidence that RAs come from coco. People wrongfully assume that if they have RAs, and are using coco, they must have come from the coco. This is a real stretch, as RAs can get into your house any number of ways. But, I would recommend that people only use premium coco (Canna), and not use off brands or bricked coco if possible. I know for a fact that you cannot get RAs from Canna coco, as I have checked dozens of bags, and never gotten another RA after stopping soil grows, and I have been using Canna coco for years without a single RA. As you said, there is nothing in coco that would attract RAs, except when there are plants in it.

RetroGrow · Apr 14, 2013

Granger2 said:
Grow Store or nursery. Bags of soil infested w/RA's. Bags of soil torn or punctured. Bags of coco nearby. Some torn or punctured. =Coco that comes w/RA's.

Grower's storeroom. Bag or more of soil w/RA's. Bags of coco. =Coco w/RA's. -granger

Zor? Is that you? Absurd & ridiculous theory, with no evidence whatsoever to support it. Yet we do know, for a fact, that they come from soil.
RA free for years in coco. Only got them when growing in soil.

Granger2 · Apr 14, 2013

No it's not Zor, it's granger. "Nonsense, ridiculous, absurd?" Why are you so close minded? You have little if any proof of your assertions, either. The difference is that I'm speculating, you're pontificating. It can only be your narrow way, or it's absurd, ridiculous, nonsense.

Fact is RA's don't seem to care what the medium, once you get an infestation, including hydro. They come from multiple sources. Soil and coco may be processed in the same yard with piles side by side till bagged. I don't know for sure if they come in coco or not. I'm saying it's possible.

And BTW, Ozzie, most bagged media [soil, coco, other mixes] are bagged moist, not "totally dry."

Believe what you want and I'll do the same. -granger
PS, Retro: You said, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]breaking into the bags of coco." That's not what I said now is it?
[/FONT]

ozzieAI · Apr 14, 2013

okay...this will be my last comment re: RA v Coco Coir....

RA DON'T LIVE IN COCO COIR...if you make coco coir soil like then, RA can live in coco coir then and only then...

nachoconqueso · Apr 14, 2013

Granger2 said:
No it's not Zor, it's granger. "Nonsense, ridiculous, absurd?" Why are you so close minded? You have little if any proof of your assertions, either. The difference is that I'm speculating, you're pontificating. It can only be your narrow way, or it's absurd, ridiculous, nonsense.

Fact is RA's don't seem to care what the medium, once you get an infestation, including hydro. They come from multiple sources. Soil and coco may be processed in the same yard with piles side by side till bagged. I don't know for sure if they come in coco or not. I'm saying it's possible.

And BTW, Ozzie, most bagged media [soil, coco, other mixes] are bagged moist, not "totally dry."

Believe what you want and I'll do the same. -granger
PS, Retro: You said, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]breaking into the bags of coco." That's not what I said now is it?
[/FONT]

I agree with you. It is perfectly safe to speculate that RA's come in bags of coco and absurd to rule it out. I had RA's on several occasions and I only use coco. I also worked with clean plants.

Bugs lay eggs anywhere they can. Typically the egg has everything it needs nutritionally speaking to support itself up until it is able to crawl and search for food. Just because coco lacks a nutrition source means nothing in the generation of a RA. The environment inside a bag of any type of media could invite bugs. If its moist and warm they will want to live or lay eggs there. RA's have a short life cycle with fast reproduction times and produce large clutches (or whatever entomologists call them). They are opportunistic and do not require anything more than warmth and moisture to generate a RA from an egg. Once the legs and wings develop it can really go search for food and there is no reason why it can't find a mate and go right back to the warm, moist spot to lay more eggs.

Dude sounds like he's gone off the deep end to try and prove himself right. It's just not the case in mine and many others experiences. In 2009 it seemed like people were getting them in all sorts of applications.

Please be smart and heat treat your coco. I have told you the preventative for coco. It's your choice whether or not you want to use it, but I'm telling you that it is quick, simple, cheap, safe for the environment, safe for your body, and 100% effective in this application. There's no reason why you shouldn't do this. Unless you're lazy, then I understand.

Granger2 · Apr 14, 2013

Ozzie,
You're forgetting that RA's don't eat soil or coco. Their food source is plant roots. You're telling me and all the others that use straight coco or coco/perlite that we don't have RA's? More pontificating. And what about those who have them in hydro? What are you basing you cocksure statements on? -granger

nachoconqueso · Apr 14, 2013

Granger2 said:
Ozzie,
You're forgetting that RA's don't eat soil or coco. Their food source is plant roots. You're telling me and all the others that use straight coco or coco/perlite that we don't have RA's? More pontificating. And what about those who have them in hydro? What are you basing you cocksure statements on? -granger

It's like they close their eyes and cover their ears when coco growers say they have RA's. Once again, another user specialeddy has made a thread about RA's in his coco. If anything, coco growers were the ones that were hit the hardest several years ago. Now soil growers have it and they're acting like this thing is totally new. I'll say it again, coco growers dealt with the massive infestation we see today first. It exists in coco. Accept it and move on with solving this problem.

Heat treat. Heat treat. Heat treat. Heat treat.

Fyi, another member tried to use my thread about root aphids in coco (in the coco forum) to prove that they aren't a coco issue. This person completely misrepresented the data. The coco/RA issue has died down a lot, but if you notice, in the few replies I got, that a member inherited RA from his coco. So in a thread with 6 members replying there's one with a problem. That's quite a high percentage in that sample group considering that the coco epidemic has dissipated. Just another example...

ozzieAI · Apr 14, 2013

gee you guys just can't let it rest can you?

what i have been saying is that if you buy a coco coir it doesn't come with RA...if you make it soil like ie: add nute and a plant THEN you can get RA...because the plant has roots that the RA eat...

I have never said this...EVER...

You're telling me and all the others that use straight coco or coco/perlite that we don't have RA's?

This is what I DID SAY...

see...i could understand if soil contaminated with RA got mixed with coco, but seriously doubt if RA would lay eggs in a totally dry media devoid of any nutritional value.

RA DON'T LIVE IN COCO COIR...if you make coco coir soil like then, RA can live in coco coir then and only then...

nachoconqueso and granger if you are going to continue waving this flag please read what i actually write

It is perfectly safe to speculate that RA's come in bags of coco and absurd to rule it out.

yes and that is all it is...SPECULATION...no more. I have NOT ruled the possibility out, i even gave an example.

see...i could understand if soil contaminated with RA got mixed with coco

sigh...

Minister · Apr 15, 2013

It´s Retrogrow ruling out coco as a source, take it easy. Look back.
Root aphids contaminates all grows and the original arguing was whether root aphids could be originating from coco aswell.
No doubt they live in soil and originate from that, but they do have a hell of a time in coco grows.
Question is: Do they come in bags of coco? Or is coco contaminated by other household plants?
Coco is very easily overtaken by them, that´s for sure.

nachoconqueso · Apr 15, 2013

Heard this song and thought of you guys. Oh yeah, Bayer sux.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8XfquuRkbY#t=32m56s

RetroGrow · Apr 15, 2013

Granger2 said:
Ozzie,
You're forgetting that RA's don't eat soil or coco. Their food source is plant roots. You're telling me and all the others that use straight coco or coco/perlite that we don't have RA's? More pontificating. And what about those who have them in hydro? What are you basing you cocksure statements on? -granger

No one is saying that you can't get RAs in any medium. This has been stated many times, yet you continue to imply that this is what we are saying. You can get them any number of ways. They can walk in your front door. But just because you got them in coco, does not mean their origin was that coco. There is no evidence to support that theory, and again, I can guarantee that if you use Canna premium coco, you will not get RAs from it. Impossible. Ultimately, the origin of all RAs is soil, as that is where they live in nature. They do not live in coco, as that is not their natural habitat, and unless that coco has plants growing in it, there is nothing for them to eat, and no reason to seek it out. RAs coming from coco is complete and short sighted speculation.
We do know without a doubt, though, that they do come in soil. Now if someone bought some crappy coco that has somehow been contaminated/mixed with soil, this does not mean the RAs came from coco.
Don't use cheap coco. Get Canna bagged coco, and you will never get RAs from it. Also, if you have RAs in coco, they are very easy to get rid of, as long as you don't have a perpetual system with multiple rooms going at once. They all have to be killed at once. Now explain to me why I have never gotten RAs again since getting rid of all my soil. I have been using coco for years now and never a single RA. It's on you to PROVE that RAs come from coco, not the other way around. It's already proven that they come from soil.

Granger2 · Apr 15, 2013

Retro,
Nothing is on me to prove, since I was speculating that it was possible. You are the one throwing around the absolutes. As I said before, believe what you want, and the rest of us will do the same. -granger

RetroGrow · Apr 16, 2013

Granger2 said:
Retro,
Nothing is on me to prove, since I was speculating that it was possible. You are the one throwing around the absolutes. As I said before, believe what you want, and the rest of us will do the same. -granger

I guess that you can speculate about anything. That doesn't make it true and is certainly not scientific.

sneaky_g · Apr 16, 2013

so i'm doing spectracide around the permiter bombing the house on 3 day intervals wiped and thorugouly cleaned all rooms and vacuumed everything.. *crosses his fningers

Granger2 · Apr 16, 2013

Well Retro, we agree on something. I never claimed that my speculation was scientific. Kind of by definition... Even though you brought it up, I won't throw "scientific" back into your court since I'm thru with this topic. Good luck. -granger

specialeddy · Apr 17, 2013

Update

Update

Can we all agree to disagree and come together :thank you:

Back to the problem at hand. So its been several days since I discovered and treated these grimmy creeps. As I stated I bombed and drenched with Bayer fruits and citrus @10ml. ALL CREEPS ARE DEAD !!!! Now as I look into the carnage I see ALOT dead creeps. Initially I identified the Root Aphids, the flyers, some crabs, the last one to show up is all black . Could it be RA at a different stage of it's life. Anyways creeps are dead, however they did damages. My roots are struggling to get back on board and I lost a chunk of foliage. I'm 3weeks into flower and what's developing looks reasonable considering :wallbash:

So theres part of my update. Bugs suck!!!!! Bayer worked for me at eradication. How to recover ?? Any help with getting the roots back and getting green again. Thanks.

Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

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