The Future of Energy

[Frozenguy]

effects with a major environmental impact of Increased land temps and Decreased sea temps.

wouldnt these temp differences cause convection currents? hot air rises and cool water sinks so wouldnt this contribute to creating wind and ocean currents?

this is a proof of concept study that didnt take into account the negative environmental impact of 5 terawats of energy NOT produced by fossil fuel.

edit:
so the conclusion of a Proof of Concept study is a Prediction by MIT?

LOL. Ugh... whatever man.. You're just not getting what I'm saying..

I never said wind was more dangerous. I never said any of that. I just said wind has its problems too. Never said better or worse than fossil. Just that it has its own problems that need to be addressed.

And 'predict' was used lightly.

 

[Guest 88950]

LOL. Ugh... whatever man.. You're just not getting what I'm saying..

I never said wind was more dangerous. I never said any of that. I just said wind has its problems too. Never said better or worse than fossil. Just that it has its own problems that need to be addressed.

And 'predict' was used lightly.

your right, i had to step back and not have any emotions when reviewing that study and how you referenced it. emotions can cloud the vision.

a better response would have been what does that Increased land and Decreased sea temp mean and is the effect drastic enough to be a deterrent for those large scale applications.

my gut tell me the impact will be negligible and not a deterrent.

 

[Dudesome]

Frozen!

I see what you mean now. You are 100% right about the case of yours. Those resources we speak of can not be defined unlimited in those states of things. As the matter of fact - when it comes to overindulgence - NOTHING IS UNLIMITED.

Yet when I say unlimited, I mean that by principle we can make things never end. We can also make things end. Anything will end when there is no moderation. Even sun has its shelf life.

 

[redbudduckfoot]

bjorn lomborg and the skeptical environmentalist. thats all i have to say. y'all need to watch his 2010 movie "COOL IT." that dude is a genius. he has no political reasons to do what he is doing(Gore/Inconvenient Truth).

i spent my first 12 years of my life w no electricity. just kerosene lanterns and wood stove. heated up 5 gallons of water and hung that 5 gallons in the "shower;" that was almost as awesome as taking a shit at 3am in a -10deg outhouse. 12 fucking years.

i spent my teenage years living in the same home, now a Solar Panel Powered home(1991-1998) and to all u naysayers out there, this is TRUTH. my parents spent 12,000$ in 1991. hardware included 8 solar panels, 16 golf cart batteries, charge controller and inverter. was a system to provide power to a 3-4 person home. we had 2 televisions(19",13") a microwave, dozens of cfls, i played mortal kombat on my Sega Genesis from 4-6pm everyday after school, we watched tv from 6-10pm. pumped water twice a day from a pump 200 ft in the ground.

need i go on?

if every household was responsible for their own power consumption this country would be a lot different.

20 years and two lightning strikes later. my mother has not spent more than 2000$ in upkeep. insurance paid to fix the fried charge controller.

one solid day of sun(10-15A/hr) will provide enough power stored in the batteries that we can have 2 weeks of cloudy days(<5A/hr) and still live comfortably.

now im not saying you could power a 3k grow on that system. spend another 25k on panels and start selling YOUR power back to the electrical company. then you can power a 3k flipflop for free. i know of 2 cats in upstate NY that are doing that very thing. and NY/feds will reimburse up to 50% of your costs in tax write-offs; grants are available too.

propane for our water heater/gas range and fridge.

now obviously we conserved power. if i fell asleep w my tv or cd player on twice in one week i had to turn it off at 11pm. annoying shit like that.

20 years now, spent say, 15,000$. thats about 62.00$ a month. and its still truckin.............

 

[grapeman]

Frozen

you believe in the "butterfly effect" dont you?

if by your reasoning

a wind turban farm generating electricity from the wind would slow the velocity of the wind due to friction generated from the interaction between the wind and blade

then

multi story buildings, trees, skyscrapers etc... these objects block and re-direct the wind and what effect have you noticed.

air and fluid are different density but react the same. the turbulence seen using smoke in a wind tunnel will form similar patterns as turbulence in water.


if solar panels can cover enough of terra firma to cool the earth then WHY are we not in an ice age due to the cooling from every structure man has made.

tidal forces are too strong to ever stop them and to illustrate my point look at the Grand Canyon to see how strong flowing water is.

i know the GC wasnt a result of tidal forces but until the moon ceases to exist we will have tides changing 2x daily.

The grand canyon's water doesn't flow like it did before the hoover dam.
But as to the "Butterfly Effect", what happens when we collect the sun's radiation and convert it to energy instead of letting it hit the ground?

This shit give me a headache. Just drill for more oil and be done with it.

 

[grapeman]

Grapeman, I have a few basic questions for you.....



What gives you the right to bankrupt an already fragile environment for future generations just so you can have cheap energy you can piss away on personal indulgences?

Since when are you entitled to shit on, deplete and exploit the only home our species has so you can have a big screen TV and all the rest?

How can you be so totally self centered, self indulgent, and arrogant to think that this is okdokey?





I hope you have some kinda real answers to my questions, cuz if you're just gonna call me names again and try to show yet another tree hugger his place yer just pissin' in the wind..................agin.

The question is "what right do you have to bankrupt the country", or me for that matter, just because you want to hug trees? Your allegiance to flawed and incomplete science, to the point that you wish to shit on progress disgusts me.

Don't worry too much, my home's 17 tons of A/C are all 18 seer. What's yours?

 

[grapeman]

If there weren't so many people...8 billion?...there would be enough to go around. A world with just 1-2 billion CAN be sustainable...now go and convince all those poor people to stop having kids. A planet with 8-9 billion is NOT sustainable. There ARE limited resources, there ARE limits on how much we can safely pump into the air, there ARE limits on fishing and polluting the oceans. 1-2 billion don't permanently harm the environment...4-5X more destroys it.

So...are you ready for the TOUGH decisions? I don't think you are. Some have to go to save the rest. Ready to choose? Or are you going to kill everyone because you can't/won't?

Pretend you're in a lifeboat...there are 10 but only food/water for 2. If EVERYONE eats/drinks...EVERYONE will certainly die. What DO you do? Draw straws? Take your chances? The answer is draw straws. It's the civilized action. People nobly giving up their own life honorably so others may live. The OTHER option...and what WILL happen if you decide to take your chances...the biggest/meanest guy will kill the rest and live happily ever after. Choose wisely!

He can't! The same idiots that cry over spilled oil are the same one's that want to feed the starving, which is a zero sum game.

 

[grapeman]

and the still are and the fed govt owns a majority of the de-valued stock so as the stock price increases and the govt sell its share it makes a profit.

with that aside, i never associated any of my comments to politics or offering "Hope & Change" so not sure why it was brought up when responding to me.





your assumptions based on your interaction with this industry.

not FACT



so your mad b/c one of the nations largest corporation puts profit before value?

go figure they look out for their stock holders.

im sorry you are dealing with wal-mart.





you havent looked at the Sun Edison link or you would know that the end customer pays NOTHING for any PV panels, installation or maintenance and in return are GUARANTEED a stable energy cost that is competitive today.

dont think that your limited interaction with the local planners are absolute and are representative of the industry.

i cant paint a clearer picture for you if you are unwilling to learn or admit others may be right.

I'm gonna throw up. First you believe that GM et.al. are ligitmate publicly owned companies (if memory serves, didn't they just issue stock last year?) that somehow is going to produce a net return on the BILLIONS thrown at them by obama. LOL How many Volts have they sold to date?? 300 or so?

And you further show your ignorance by saying Sun Edison's customers pays nothing. WHO THE FUCK PAYS THEN? The government. Which if you didn't know, is all of us.

 

[grapeman]

sorry you lost money but the govt should have let GM restructure in bankruptcy.

how different would your stock be effected.

The company would've been restructured with new contracts with the worthless UAW, which was the main cause of their problems to begin with.
The last 2 administrations gave 80 billion to GM & Chrysler. We will never be re-paid.
http://reason.com/archives/2011/05/24/general-motors-will-never-repa

 

[grapeman]

your right, i had to step back and not have any emotions when reviewing that study and how you referenced it. emotions can cloud the vision.

a better response would have been what does that Increased land and Decreased sea temp mean and is the effect drastic enough to be a deterrent for those large scale applications.

my gut tell me the impact will be negligible and not a deterrent.

Emotions always run high among those disciples of the "green religion".

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

grapeman, you don't have to flip out on a weed forum. Just open your eyes. Nobody said you have to like it. The only reason yer raisin hell at us is because green energy is being developed, not just talked about.

Go raise hell at the industry.

 

[El Jimador]

Back in the 1990's, Dr. David Goodstein taught college physics at CalTech. Here is an informative look at the problems/challenges as inhabitants of planet earth struggle to find energy alternatives:
"Out of Gas"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vLZr09kD34

 

[headband 707]

Emotions always run high among those disciples of the "green religion".

Okay Grapeman are you sure you smoke bud cause you name suggest you might be a drinker trollin lol..
You do know there are more countries out there then America working on solar energy right lol.. Right now as we speak they have a whole city in China on a solar grid so so much for not being able to run your TV. You do believe since this nuclear melt down they will be turning to this technology now? right?lol peace out Headband707

 

[Guest 88950]

And you further show your ignorance by saying Sun Edison's customers pays nothing. WHO THE FUCK PAYS THEN? The government. Which if you didn't know, is all of us.

its your ignorance showing through b/c i stated that Sun Edison supplies ALL solar panels, installation and maintenance and they get paid by selling the energy produced to the customer at a stable price. a price that is obviously competitive enough to attract customers.

but why would your believe me, check them out for yourself.

 

[joeuser]

its not one single argument but the assumption that mass wind turbine farms can disrupt wind patterns.

a similar assumption regarding tidal turbines.

the scale in which you assume to be needed to supply solar, wind and wave power.

i cant argue with a fundamental lack of understanding you are showing.

is it intentional? seems it might be.

sorry you lost money but the govt should have let GM restructure in bankruptcy.

how different would your stock be effected.





so lets defer this problem to the later generations where oil is more scarce and the dollar will be weaker.

not such a smart thing to do imo.





and as i replied, if you were more knowledgeable on the subject then you would know that is just not the case.

im from Texas so im familiar with its size. in fl now.





ive already posted a link to a company doing what you say cant be done but i guess its not enough proof.


here is an example of tidal turbines in the East River generating electricity. the engineers under estimated the forces involved and the blade didnt hold up so they re-engineered it.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18567/

From your own article...

But these constructions have fallen out of favor because of their outsize impact on ocean ecosystems. James Taylor, general manager of environmental planning and monitoring for Nova Scotia Power, notes that commercial-scale installations planned for the Bay of Fundy in the 1980s would have altered tides as far away as Boston. "It would be a pretty hard thing to get permitted today," says Taylor.

You CAN'T get something for nothing! Never! EVERYTHING has its price!

 

[Dudesome]

As of 2010, solar photovoltaics generates electricity in more than 100 countries and, while yet comprising a tiny fraction of the 15 TW total global power-generating capacity from all sources,[5] is the fastest growing power-generation technology in the world.

wiki

whatever. im out

 

[headband 707]

From your own article...

But these constructions have fallen out of favor because of their outsize impact on ocean ecosystems. James Taylor, general manager of environmental planning and monitoring for Nova Scotia Power, notes that commercial-scale installations planned for the Bay of Fundy in the 1980s would have altered tides as far away as Boston. "It would be a pretty hard thing to get permitted today," says Taylor.

You CAN'T get something for nothing! Never! EVERYTHING has its price!

Bra not sure where you are getting your info but the friends I have that have solar panels installed on their roofs and yes for a cost. Are now selling power back to the hydro companies every month not the other way around lol peace out Headband707

 

[grapeman]

grapeman, you don't have to flip out on a weed forum. Just open your eyes. Nobody said you have to like it. The only reason yer raisin hell at us is because green energy is being developed, not just talked about.

Go raise hell at the industry.

Nice touch using the word "raisin".

Anyway, Bill Gates sees our government's current energy plans as a boondoggle also.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/07/07/1324238/Bill-Gates-On-Energy?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot%2Fto+%28%28Title%29Slashdot+%28rdf%29%29

 

[Dudesome]

Say waht you will about MS but to me it appears old Bill is mostly right on this one. Things like solar and will will eventually become economical, but not in the immediate future. This is mostly due to the rising cost of fossil fuels, but there are some economies of scale. More basic research is needed but renewables will become economical on their own eventually.

quote from the link gp gave us.

Perfect. So ppl want to have it all in the near future. As if the first step shall not be made. As if we will get to the further future without living the today.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

One could say the same to Bill Gates... nobody said he has to like it.