Red Eye South Africa Cannabis Road Trip.

[Mr. Nevermind]

well if you think africa is like that because of the white man your welcome to believe so, but truth be told it would be NOTHING but cows and huts and shit if white people never came. people have and are raping africa of its resources but its silly to think they were fine before white people came. if not aids, than malaria, whatever. its africa. pick a disease, any disease.

Nubia was a great kingdom your right, but since then we've had rome and all and africa pretty much stayed the same. so I think they could use a lil help.


and you know despite how fucked up and ego driven it has all become the foundation of capitalism is that with capital you can help people that need it. and if anyone needs help its africa.

I've no plans to invade africans lives and I do think the west intrudes and imposes beliefs on others, but there are parts of africa that are so uneducated that they think if they sleep with someone who doesn't have aids their aids will be passed to them, and taken away from the original host and they'll be cured. the only people they know don't have aids are virgins, ie children. so they rape them thinking its going to cure their aids. I think enough money to educate them to stop doing that would be money well spent yes.

have u no sense of philanthropy? with all the shit going on in your country and u have no interest in helping? for a couple dollars I can make a bunch of africans lives much easier. why you wouldn't want the west to give them a helping hand is beyond my comprehension.

if you want to live on a little stretch of earth and only help you and yours go for it. but don't discourage others from making peoples lives easier who are starving to death.

see how u feel about helping hands if your born in the dirt of a hut in africa. doing shit on your own from scratch ain't that easy. we don't choose our parents and the least you can do is show a lil humility about the quality of life you were born into. I don't approve of the way they live and I understand its largely their own traditions that are the downfall of them, but it doesn't change that they are human and you can at least try. many of them want a better life and everything anyone else wants and its pretty hard to do that when your starting from nothing.

To say Africa was huts and shit before white people came is just plain stupid. Ever hear of the Pyramids?people still dont know how they were built but it was Africans that made them. Art , technolgy , building and huge kingdoms that were trading gold, ivory and bronze. They had medicine, mathematics and astronamy as well. As well as west africans trading with Eupopeans, Ethiopians were resonsibl for the coffee you drink as well as preserving cristianity. The zulu tribe changed warfare as we know it , watch the movie "Chaka Zulu"

Most the disease that Africans have was due to contact with Europeans. Same as what happened to American indians. If you recall most plagues were in eurpoe because europeans were notoriously dirty people. Trash in their streets, dead rats all over the place, lack of hygeine and so on.


Your statment of Africans had huts and shit until white man came along is just stupid.

 

[Guest]

a simple-minded perspective on problems of this scale is only conducive to confusion

pointing the finger of blame at any one race alone is foolish

but it is equally clear that the seed of many of modern day Africa's problems was colonialism
that would be a prime mover in causing the current mess, and colonialism in Africa was fundamentally a white European profit-orientated, racist phenomenon (despite the complicity and acquiescence of so many black Africans)

to suggest that throwing money at Africa will cure its problems "like that" would be hugely naive

Africa is struggling for countless reasons, not least due to a global economy which is scewed against it, but also because of a map that was drawn by arrogant colonial powers and has exaccerbated ethnic tension; also because of corruption, unfair political systems, disease, demographics, geography etc. etc. etc.

Motaco the opening comments of your post above show the typical blend of racism (more, or less, subtle) and arrogance that underpins all such simple-minded colonial arguments

the old "they, ("the natives",) were living in huts and wiping their arses with their hands before we came along type argument" has never been anything but stale ideology

nobody in their right mind would argue against the fact that the "developing" world has suffered almightily and continues to do so at the hands of colonial and post-colonial economies

it is obvious that the global economy will continue for many years to come to shit on Africa while bleeding it dry

Namkha

 

[motaco]

To say Africa was huts and shit before white people came is just plain stupid. Ever hear of the Pyramids?people still dont know how they were built but it was Africans that made them. Art , technolgy , building and huge kingdoms that were trading gold, ivory and bronze. They had medicine, mathematics and astronamy as well. As well as west africans trading with Eupopeans, Ethiopians were resonsibl for the coffee you drink as well as preserving cristianity. The zulu tribe changed warfare as we know it , watch the movie "Chaka Zulu"

Most the disease that Africans have was due to contact with Europeans. Same as what happened to American indians. If you recall most plagues were in eurpoe because europeans were notoriously dirty people. Trash in their streets, dead rats all over the place, lack of hygeine and so on.


Your statment of Africans had huts and shit until white man came along is just stupid.

when was the last pyramid they built? Nubia or something? thought so. u act like they put them up last sept. their accomplishments your talking about are ancient. and you can believe africa is loaded with disease because of europe if you want. but places with no sanitation and 100 degree weather breeds diseases. u really think they were brought from europe? its not just europe. any time travelers go anywhere it causes plagues because the natives don't have antibodies protecting them against it.

and how many of them STILL live in huts? thought so.

who else lives in huts? not too many.


I don't know about u but doing something impressive in ancient times then living in the dirt in the technological age doesn't impress me of their culture.


and I specifically noted the problems caused in the past and right now by other countries.

and who said anything about throwing money at it curing everything? I didn't. I said spending enough money to teach them raping babies won't get rid of your aids is a good expenditure of money.

sat ghost said not to give them any money. and I think they could use it. how its spent is up for debate but saying africans don't need or want money is retarded.


and sat ghost I think your version of tough love is splitting hairs between tough shit.

 

[Reign of Terror]

no man your wrong about that. european people were basically the only people whoever got sick. none of the diseases today are of african/spanish/indian origin, they all came from europe. people would take a shower once a year, and only once in europe. that bred the bases for the diseases you see today

and europe had nothing on africa. africa had mathematics, created philosophy, and probably created writing. then the greek/roman came over there, took all their ideas, claimed it as theirs and built upon work that was thousands of years in the making.

so when i say whitey fucked up africa, you can look up african history (B.C.) to check it out.

 

[malkop_zolkop]

I see a lot of foreign johnnies talking a lot about africa.
FWIW, stop trying to see Satghost's comment as the old staple "Africa would be nothing without europeans", because it isn't.

Africa has been responsible for a lot of things, but allow me to correct you lot on a few things.


Egyptians were not "africans". Please take note that the Egyptians were afro-asiatic, and in touch with the "known world" millenia ago. Ideas were exchanged.
Coffee was not "invented" or created. It is merely geographical positioning of the habitat.
You don't hear the world telling us the south americans are great because they gave us Pineapples?

It isn't about huts and shit.
It is about mindset, and the mindset of the vast majority of Africa is rural. Your average joe around here just wants his little piece, and have the opportunity to indulge in his "traditional" right of being the man of his "house"

Now if anyone has any further discussions about this, feel free to read these links first (This is specifically for you Reign Of Terror):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing#Writing_in_historical_cultures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_philosophy

 

[Guest]

hey MZ thanks for stopping by, your qualifications stand out in your posts.

thanks for highlighting the incorrect assumption that my statements are biased, at least there are some people here who know that blame is a futile exercise, i would have thought that was blindly obvious by now.

 

[Guest]

heya mz, yes I can't deny I am a foreigner on this one, and not well-informed when it comes to specifics on African history

my post above could well have read as one of those "cult of victimhood" type things

I don't doubt that there are som unfortunate attitudes washing around rural Africa - not least the "big man" business in rural villages... I hear even Thomas Mapfumo (great as he was) is known for driving his black Merc around his village all day etc.

still, I am not particularly enamoured of aspirational culture, so I have trouble seeing much difference between TM's behaviour and the more "normal" suburban stereotypes

in the broader context, IMHO it is all these people who sing the praises of "hard work" and profit who are driving the world into the dirt, and riding on the backs of the rest of us

simple human lifestyles are under pressure from purblind capitalists, yet it is such lifestyles as are sustainable

"ours" aren't - end of story (and it could well be just that shortly)

one "simple" thing could help drag much of Africa up off its knees - legalise cannabis

 

[highonthechroni]

Hiya SatGhost,
Does the Sat stand for Sativa or are you feeling flat? lol

lol afro

 

[motaco]

I also wanted to mention in this thread there is a perfect example of how a tiny bit of money can help a ton of people an infinite way.

there is a company right now working on making a solar powered laptop capable of working anywhere for 200 bucks a piece. they'll be just good enough to get on the net.

now that sounds like the most foolish thing in history. WTF do africans in villages living in huts need a laptop for? they can't need internet pornography that bad right?

well it isn't for internet porn. its for global harvest reports. millions of rural farmers have NO idea what the harvest is like anywhere else. if there was a drought that caused manioc flour or whatever to be worth a few more cents a lb it means THE WORLD to the farmer that would've been lied to by the person buying the flour from him who would make the $$$ at his expense. a few extra cents a lb means more than you could ever imagine to rural farmers barely making ends meet.

one laptop can spread the info to all the farmers for miles upon miles. technology in action.

also I should mention, they aren't charging the village of course. its a gift. rare to actually see it happen but thats the point behind capitalism that gets so misconstrued. with money you can help people.

if your interested you can personally buy one or more village a laptop for only two bills.

 

[malkop_zolkop]

I also wanted to mention in this thread there is a perfect example of how a tiny bit of money can help a ton of people an infinite way.

there is a company right now working on making a solar powered laptop capable of working anywhere for 200 bucks a piece. they'll be just good enough to get on the net.

now that sounds like the most foolish thing in history. WTF do africans in villages living in huts need a laptop for? they can't need internet pornography that bad right?

well it isn't for internet porn. its for global harvest reports. millions of rural farmers have NO idea what the harvest is like anywhere else. if there was a drought that caused manioc flour or whatever to be worth a few more cents a lb it means THE WORLD to the farmer that would've been lied to by the person buying the flour from him who would make the $$$ at his expense. a few extra cents a lb means more than you could ever imagine to rural farmers barely making ends meet.

one laptop can spread the info to all the farmers for miles upon miles. technology in action.

also I should mention, they aren't charging the village of course. its a gift. rare to actually see it happen but thats the point behind capitalism that gets so misconstrued. with money you can help people.

if your interested you can personally buy one or more village a laptop for only two bills.

When last were you on a farm in Africa? Subsistence or commercial?
I think you seem to be pretty out of touch as to how things are around here...

 

[motaco]

u think they are building them because people don't need them? they just said fuck it lets buy some villagers laptops? give me a break.


they wouldn't make them if there wasn't a market for people who need them. and its not just africa. they're making them for india, asia, and basically anywhere rural farmers can't find out that info. if you don't believe me look it up.

where I specifically learned this was in a documentary about the effort, and it was in africa. so... maybe your out of touch with how things are around there?

you think subsistence farmers don't trade goods? u act like farmers don't sell their crops.

it may be hard for you to believe apparently but millions of rural farmers DO sell their crops. if they can be informed so they aren't taken advantage of I think its a good thing.


people aren't usually capapable of growing everything they need themselves. they grow what they can, and with the surplus of what they have they trade for things they don't have. with locals or merchants at markets.

I also like how you put "around here" as in the continent of africa is a neighborhood and has no farmers selling anything. u can argue that one by yourself I'm about done here.

 

[malkop_zolkop]

When last were you on a farm in Africa?

 

[malkop_zolkop]

u think they are building them because people don't need them? they just said fuck it lets buy some villagers laptops? give me a break.

Heh. You seem to have a poor understanding of how the internets work.
Laptops. Solar powered. That should give you a clue as to the infrastructure.
Are they going to distribute TCP/IP over solar winds too?

they wouldn't make them if there wasn't a market for people who need them. and its not just africa. they're making them for india, asia, and basically anywhere rural farmers can't find out that info. if you don't believe me look it up.

Oh, I am sure USAID or someone similar could drum up some interest. Front page of some news sites, warm fuzzy feelings all round.

where I specifically learned this was in a documentary about the effort, and it was in africa. so... maybe your out of touch with how things are around there?

Ah yes. A documentary. Care to expand?

you think subsistence farmers don't trade goods? u act like farmers don't sell their crops.

I never said anything of tthe sort.

it may be hard for you to believe apparently but millions of rural farmers DO sell their crops. if they can be informed so they aren't taken advantage of I think its a good thing.

Like Rwandese coffee growers? Farmers told by US aid agencies, that they would have a market for the coffee they grew? Yeah sure. They sell their goods, and let me tell you, it isn't for very much.
So, lets see... You give them a crank handled or solar powered laptop.
Marvellous.
Lets ignore the lack of internet connection though.
They now know the price of coffee at the market in kenya, and in the US.
The now demand a higher price from the broker. He laughs and tells them to get fucked.
Oops.
The fact of the matter is this:
Market prices are known. That isn't a problem.

people aren't usually capapable of growing everything they need themselves. they grow what they can, and with the surplus of what they have they trade for things they don't have. with locals or merchants at markets.

You don't say? Perhaps you should read some of my other icmag posts with regard to this. And by this I mean crop diversity.

I also like how you put "around here" as in the continent of africa is a neighborhood and has no farmers selling anything. u can argue that one by yourself I'm about done here.

I use the term here, because in the time you've taken to type these two replies, I've been two three african countries (In these three countries, I work with people who actually come from families who own commercial farms - Fruit and Cattle in one country, vegetables in another, and sheep in the last. "Here" is simply a term I use for the continenet as I travel a lot.

 

[motaco]

wiseass if your actually interested you can go to sundance and see what they play for doc day. it was a documentary dealing with the rural farmers, crisis of drought, deliberate misinformation, and they are splicing a prarie grass with extremely long roots to combat the drought in africa, but the seeds were turned down due to ignorant people telling them they were dangerous and spliced with animal dna "frankenstein" seeds they called them, and various related issues. it was all over. but at least half of it was in africa. a good chunk ethiopia. the part about the corn anyway.

they dealt with the lack of communication, and yes they do have internet access capable from anywhere in the world. make an ass of yourself if you like. its not new technology. the problem isn't getting the internet connection its teaching the ones than can read how to use it.

I don't remember the name of the documentary but its probably available on google video or sundance channel if you do your homework.

as for them selling coffee and not getting much money for it. thats what the fucking documentary was about asshole. educating them about how much their goods are actually worth. if they don't wanna pay, they don't have to buy. if everyone quits selling guess who'll start paying more for it. supply and demand.


PS- your a gaping asshole and a real prick. I hope your happy with how you represent yourself. at least you have the decency to immediatey identify yourself as someone who should be on ignore ASAP. and I doubt highly your anything but a kid on your moms computer. 3 african countries in 12 hrs huh? wow. also FYI people that have jobs like your speaking of, usually aren't such openly hostile pricks. I guess its no coincidence you have 3 shitty pics and you've a job where u could certainly afford a camera. considering you've been in 3 african countries in half a day and also maintain steady internet connection. lol.

you see the class and character of person afropips shows? see if he told me that I'd believe him. but you... your just an asshole. and its truly sad you find it necessary to lie on the internet to impress people you'll never meet.

 

[motaco]

oh yeah there was also a very long thread at OG about this before I even saw the documentary. maybe some OG'ers will chime in. they were going to have a fund like we do when friends are in jail. everyone sends seeds to auction and the proceeds go to it. OG crashed before it got off the ground though.

 

[malkop_zolkop]

wiseass if your actually interested you can go to sundance and see what they play for doc day. it was a documentary dealing with the rural farmers, crisis of drought, deliberate misinformation, and they are splicing a prarie grass with extremely long roots to combat the drought in africa, but the seeds were turned down due to ignorant people telling them they were dangerous and spliced with animal dna "frankenstein" seeds they called them, and various related issues. it was all over. but at least half of it was in africa. a good chunk ethiopia. the part about the corn anyway.

they dealt with the lack of communication, and yes they do have internet access capable from anywhere in the world. make an ass of yourself if you like. its not new technology. the problem isn't getting the internet connection its teaching the ones than can read how to use it.

Oh, the communication technology has existed for a long time. The cost is the problem. It is prohibitive. And that is my point. Aid may pay for laptops, and the like, but do agencies pay for the satellite uplink?
Rural subsistence farming is small parcel. It is called subsistence farming for a reason. These people are growing to live. Primarily for their own consumption. Spare goods are not always produced...
A laptop with an exensive connection, that he can't pay for because he has nothing to sell.

I don't remember the name of the documentary but its probably available on google video or sundance channel if you do your homework.

as for them selling coffee and not getting much money for it. thats what the fucking documentary was about asshole. educating them about how much their goods are actually worth. if they don't wanna pay, they don't have to buy. if everyone quits selling guess who'll start paying more for it. supply and demand.

What is this sundance channel? Remember. No cable here.
Rwanda was left with a predicament, the only processing facility is in kenya.
The have to sell their goods to their neighbour or no one buys them. Nice to know the price, but if you can't sell raw coffee because your only buyer is squeezing you, what good is that?
I know this, because I have been to Rwanda several times and seen the problem first hand, they grow coffee, but have to import instant coffee!!! What fucking sense is getting a whole lot of subsistence farmers to grow a crop that has no domestic value, and leave them dependant on a single buyer??? What fucking good is "knowing the market price"? I know a coffee trader, doing great business in ethiopia, because he has a niche market for exotic coffee, and pays top dollar for harvests. Interesting story around that.

PS- your a gaping asshole and a real prick.

Thanks buddy.

I hope your happy with how you represent yourself. at least you have the decency to immediatey identify yourself as someone who should be on ignore ASAP. and I doubt highly your anything but a kid on your moms computer. 3 african countries in 12 hrs huh? wow. also FYI people that have jobs like your speaking of, usually aren't such openly hostile pricks. I guess its no coincidence you have 3 shitty pics and you've a job where u could certainly afford a camera. considering you've been in 3 african countries in half a day and also maintain steady internet connection. lol.

Forgive me for giving you the impression it was in twelve hours. It wasn't. I meant during the course of the week. Been away from home so much recently, that I kinda just refer to wherever I am in Africa as here over the phone, and when I am on another continent by the name of the place.
I'd like to assure you I am not a "kid on the computer"...
As for the pictures, why the fuck are you bothered about that? What do you expect? A photojournal of my life? Yeah, they're shitty pics. I'm not missing a pulitzer prize.

you see the class and character of person afropips shows? see if he told me that I'd believe him. but you... your just an asshole. and its truly sad you find it necessary to lie on the internet to impress people you'll never meet.

What about afropips?
Ok, so because you decide I'm an "asshole", I'm now a liar? I cannot see how you'd get to that conclusion.
I'm up for open debate, but please, for the love of dog... Grow the fuck up, argue your point, don't resort to name calling and accusations because you have neither a fact nor experience to back your points up!
Fuck dude. That is indicative of a "kid on mommy's computer", and I am sure you aren't. Are you?

 

[malkop_zolkop]

oh yeah there was also a very long thread at OG about this before I even saw the documentary. maybe some OG'ers will chime in. they were going to have a fund like we do when friends are in jail. everyone sends seeds to auction and the proceeds go to it. OG crashed before it got off the ground though.

My man, I have NO idea what you are on about.

 

[guest123]

interesting thread , love how u guys have debated and until some of the above post came about , no name calling ,, all good info and moving foward ...
i know very little of the plight of the people , but am a little wiser now about it .... cheers guy s....

 

[motaco]

sorry wally I didn't mean to

but I just can't help it. if someone is a condescending prick to me I'll call them what they're acting like. you don't have to call someone a name to be completely disrespectful. acting like they are a moron before they even know what they are talking about, etc. I don't care for it and I don't sit back while people do it to me. and I feel better now that one more person has told him he's an asshole. because its something he should hear when he talks to people like that

thats why I brought up afropips name. because of how polite he is.

malkop says knowing the market price doesn't effect anything then in the next breath ("What fucking good is "knowing the market price"? I know a coffee trader, doing great business in ethiopia, because he has a niche market for exotic coffee, and pays top dollar for harvests. Interesting story around that.) says he knows someone who makes alot of money because of exotic coffee in ETHI-motherfucking-OPIA home of the crippled and starving children with distended bellies when very easily others could already be growing it and sell it dirt cheap like regular coffee and get fucked out of money for the exact same product two towns over because they are uneducated. an obvious use for knowing the harvest report right there. even if they had to get the right coffee seeds sent to them at least with the harvest report they would know what crops were worth money to begin with. having to sell it to one buyer? I don't believe that for a second. free enterprise isn't just america. if something is worth money people arrive to buy it. buy for a dollar and sell for 2.

now I realize your going to say "they're subsistence farmers, they don't grow enough to attract merchants" but this is not a new problem. people have been convincing numerous tribes from geographically suitable areas to grow profitable crops and when enough of them do it merchants DO show up.

a somewhat similiar thing happens in the emerald triangle. a tremendous amount of weed comes from there and its mostly not large commercial crops. they've got too bad of helicopter patrols. what happens is enough families grow it on their property and when its all put together there is enough weed for merchants to make the trip to humboldt to get it. the same premise can be applied to ethiopian coffee or ethiopian whatever. obviously people will travel further for weed but the idea is the same, enough people working toward a common goal and someone will show up who has a market for what they are selling.

you see its not that humboldt is any different than tenesee valley. if enough broke ass appalachia hillbillies got together and did what the humboldt hillbillies did eventually a market would find them and they wouldn't be in the predicament. then they could live like beverly hillbillies. that equation is true anywhere you apply it, its just getting the right crop. whether its weed or coffee or something else.

you see I get pulled into arguments easy but I am here to help people, not argue with people who think I lied about the plight of african people because I wanted to sound smart and say I watched a documentary I guess. I don't have time to argue about shit like that. (in my best godfather voice) "but they pull me back in"

and when they pull me back in I call people a gaping asshole. its just how I am.

name calling isn't what fucks up threads, its what happens to bring about the name calling.

but in the sake of not fucking up afro's thread anymore with our senseless squabbling I'll leave this thread.

and actually yes, I am on mommys computer. because I shut down my grow/life and moved home when my dad had a stroke if you must know.

and its pretty ignorant to assume africans pay for the internet uplink. you think the company worked out how to make solar powered laptops for under 200 dollars but forgot that crucial element? they're not making money off it the thing is a charity project.

and I meant everything I said but I do apologize for bringing up your lack of pics, I didn't have a camera until recently either and I've been on websites for years and even had a very popular thread without any of my own pics so its hypocritical of me. but I do still think your a teenager. bye.

wow I ended up editing this like 50 times but I had some shit I wanted to get out.

 

[guest123]

ok montaco ,, just chill out maybe ,, im sure mz meant nothing personal in his posts ,, always best to keep things non personal , is the only way we will learn new things ,, to open up our eyes and ears and listen to someone elses point o f view ,, whether we agree or not , is good to seee something from another side ...
the way folks have posted in this thread proves folks can debate and still keep their cool ,, seeing other peoples points of view is why we are all here isnt it ??
sorry guys ,, please continue with your thread ,, i am enjoying it ... heres an african sativa to keep the thoughts coming ...