Red Eye South Africa Cannabis Road Trip.

[afropips]

Hiya Sat,
Yes! we are discussing the ideas!
Only with the info for better cultivation practices can the
mistakes of the past be avoided.

The legality & economic benefits of Cannabiz
are greater here in UK than Africa.
The pounds definately help I & my family & friends here & in Africa.

The people that are starving need food & money to survive.
They can't just eat foodstuffs that are not cultivated for there consumption
with out purchasing it.

The land & energy needed to grow tomatoes is far greater than
cultivating Cannabis.
Products derived from Cannabis for national & International use reap greater rewards than tomatoes.

Cool Runnings...........

 

[malkop_zolkop]

"The point is the West controls the land & it is not for use for the people
that deserve it."

agreed, but what happens when these people gain control of the land? they repeat the same mistakes. it seems to me you care more about africans than africa itself, how does the saying go: small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas.

Actually, the vatican is the largest owner of land in Africa. Little surprise really. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say here SatGhost.

"Have you done any low key living in the bush lately & have you ever travelled North of the Border."

no, but as you pointed out i'm young and i've got plenty of time to achieve both of these things. i do live a much more sustainable lifestyle than anyone i know. tell me Jim, just why are you in the UK when you have the Afrovision at heart? those pounds working out nicely for you?

I have. I work outside of South Africa, with my main focus in Africa, lived in Nigeria, Mauritania, and spent months in places like Rwanda, Zimbabwe and Senegal... I've seen more than enough.

"People are starving that could be better off & if allowed to plant cannabis as an alternate the rewards are greater than other crops beeing cultivated & also better for the environment."

Jesus Jim, listen to yourself man. if people are starving, why do they want to make money? to open a MacDonalds? why don't they just eat the food crops in the first place? and how is hemp/cannabis going to save the environment or feed mouths better than say, tomatoes?

It goes back to what I said about culture changes. Look at Nigeria for an education on this particular point. People are starving because of their political situations, not because there isn't food.

SatGhost, I typed up a long reply to your request for info, but it got lost.
I see you make a similar point to my idea. Cannabis is a marvellous crop, but it is not going to save the continent. It is merely a key to saving.

I'll touch briefly on the idea mentioned earlier...
Instead of single plot cultivation by single family units, create co-ops with a single core community zone. Centralised living allows for large scale recovery of waste to be used in worm farms and sewage recovery.
It allows for cheaper access development, 1 paved road is easier to motivate and construct than multiple.

Larger land tracts allow for crop diversity, and with waste recovery less reliance on inorganic fertilisers. Crop diversity makes more sense. I'd rather have tomatoes, peppers and cannabis seed derived products on my plate than just cannabis.
There are other techniques related to farming, and biofriendly farming that I won't touch upon unless asked to.

Secondly, cannabis is a diverse product, but if you are expecting a population to embrace cannabis as the answer to everything, then you are surely mad.
Firstly, you are not stepping away from the exchange of money, and a large investment of capital for processing facilities. Keeping it low key, as a bio stock to supplement farms is the solution rather than turning small plots into poor earning commercial farms.

Should I delve into the concept further with diversification practices, and rotations? I'm not sure it would benefit the debate to get overly technical on the matter, but I can if anyone wishes it.

That about covers it.
Oh, one more thing. If you talk about cannabis seed as a food source, then you really need to look at the processing of it, like soya. Unprocessed cannabis seed as a foodstuff is gruel, and I don't know whether anyone has eaten it before, but it isn't that nice, and you'll go a long way way to convincing people to produce cannabis for that purpose, rather than maize.

 

[malkop_zolkop]

Products derived from Cannabis for national & International use reap greater rewards than tomatoes.

Cool Runnings...........

I have a few issues with this statement.
Ultimately, the statement is correct, no denying it, but the problem is this:
To realise the end product, you require a processing base. It is not all inclusive in the growth of the plant.

To realise profit from cannabis, you require volume.

To get textiles in volume, you require production facilities with machinery that is highly specialised, moreso than cotton, given the nature of the cannabis plant. Highly specialised == Expensive. You could do it in a low key fashion, but it is labour intensive and that drives the cost up, making it less viable than cotton as a textile, and the chinese are already killing Africa with textiles.

To derive ethanol, and bio diesel, you require production facilities and enzymes. Certainly, you could do low key production, but batch quality comes into question.

To get a good food source, you require food production facilities.

So on, and so forth.
Ultimately, cannabis is a wonder plant, yet to insist it is the answer to all the problems in Africa is akin to the production of steel in China during the Revolution.

 

[afropips]

Hiya Malkop Zolkop,
Exactly the point I was trying to make that could be printed in a magazine
& the info supplied in other forms.
We are in aggreement.

Cool Runnings.........

 

[malkop_zolkop]

Still though, magazines don't really contribute, at least the few I see.
They cater to the stoner community rather than taking up the social aspect. As SatGhost said, you're more likely to find Ph meters and small scale hydro setups in mags than intensive farming aids. High Times, Red Eye etc all have a THC link, and the regularl reader of a mag like that feels rocks for PSAs. Africa exists for holidays, jamming beats, and news fillers whenever there is a war or something equally bad.
I have more faith in Farmer's Weekly, than I do cannabis mags. I don't deny, I do read cannabis mags from time to time, but I read Farmer's Weekly more often. It's content is far more applicable.

As for hemp oil... The last thing the world needs is more oil on it's food. I'd much rather see a soya like product. Faux chicken and/or burgers derived from hemp seed. Also, 99% hemp grain alcohol, so I can make hash.
I'd also like to see commercial farms take hemp cultivation up, in order to produce bio-diesel for farm implements. It would certainly go a long way to alleviating the looming energy crisis.

 

[afropips]

Hi Malkop,
Thats why the magazines that do contribute need to be started.
Yes! I would also love to see the production of biodiesel.
Politics is a major problem & raising awareness & gaining social acceptability
through magazines & other projects would be a start though.

Cool Runnings..........

 

[Guest]

SatGhost, I typed up a long reply to your request for info, but it got lost.

i hate it when that happens, good posts anyway MZ. i'm sure nobody will mind if you post up your ideas, i like what i'm hearing so far.

 

[getafix]

Great discussion

Great discussion

Great discussion guys!

Better access to information regarding hemp farming, processing and usage is most needed. I have been thinking about a bit of activism/lobbying here in Mozambique.

I have spoken to some people and it seems that all (or is it most?) countries are bound by UN agreement whereby hemp production is prohibited, except when a "license" is obtained from the UN. This license is very difficult to obtain.

But this "license" must be available when considering the hemp oils and other hemp products on sale in major department stores and by brands like "Body shop".

Please help me if I'm wrong. But another thing some sources have told me is that hemp production is more suited for the Northern hemisphere, or probably closer to the poles and not around the equator. Here is a quote from an email conversation with a hempbiz owner in SA:

Hi Allan, Demand for hemp seed oil in SA very small to non existent, and southern hemisphere climate not good for nutritional quality seed/oil. Good for biomass and fibre (eg clothing and paper) production, but then you need to create local market for processing.

Also, export market v tough as China and India are major players, as are many countries in Europe.

SA govt really not keen on hemp as police and health dept say they can't monitor it.

So not a pretty picture.

But I have some ideas. Next time you in Jhb, give me a call.

Getting a thread going around this issue, even if only to leave some info for others to refer to, would be a great idea.

 

[afropips]

Howzit Getafix,
Welcome back from the Dam!
How was it bro?

The UN is the problem.
I am completely against growing the hemp seed varieties from Europe
in Africa.
We Need to be able to plant our own endemic psychoactive hemp producing varieties
& harvest the rewards.
(Cannabis Hemp pollen infects high quality endemic psychoactive cannabis varieties with the non psychoactive traits.)

Only when the population of Africa are informed & made aware of the truth regards the plant will make it more widely socially acceptable.

Do you agree that pamphlet, magazines, books & other media could be utilised?

Amandla Awhetu.........

 

[getafix]

Amsterdam is a treat

I'd recommend Katsu, Grey area and going to smoke and chat at Gypsy Nirvana Seeds. And my favourite going to Vondelpark on a sunny day and just chilling

I totally agree with information dissemination. I think pamphlet distribution in Africa would work really well. People are hungry for information and there aren't TV, traffic and other 'developed world' stuff to keep people from reading (for the literate, of course)

So what you are saying is that Cannabis Hemp may, if commercially grow in Africa, damage our local Sativa growing ability and gene-pool potency? It is very possible that, if Hemp growing is legalized, we will see large commercial farming operations around Africa...

 

[getafix]

I believe there is a huge gap in the market for info and products for cannabis growers and users in SA (Other psychoactive herbs as well). I can think of very few places where I would go to find such info. I know there is a bit of a scene in Cape Town, but not in the rest of the country.

I have actually been working on a business plan for some time and got around to documenting it this year. My trip to the Dam included some further reasearch :smile: Here goes the intro:

Executive summary
Little Amsterdam is a place to meet, relax and be enlightened. It will also be a place where likeminded individuals can find information, support and products related to the Cannabis plant and other psychoactive herbs.
Our main aim is to make growing, sharing of information and providing alternative methods of consumption of Cannabis available to consenting adults. Secondary to this aim is the promotion of other psychoactive herbs. Lastly, the sale and promotion of hemp products will also form part of our strategy.
Our business is mainly aimed at:
1 Equipment for growing of Cannabis and other psychoactive plants for personal use.
2 Products used for the consumption of the Cannabis and other psychoactive plants.
3 Hemp products
4 Promoting awareness and disseminating information on the subject of growing Cannabis and psychoactive plants for personal use.

I'd love to discuss it and get some feedback. Especially relating to the viability of such a business/place...

 

[afropips]

Hiya Getafix,

Yes, I am saying that Cannabis Hemp commercially grown in Africa will damage our local Sativa growing ability and gene-pool potency?

You state:- It is very possible that, if Hemp growing is legalized, we will see large commercial farming operations around Africa...
I believe that producing Hemp just for international markets will not benefit Africans or Africa.

This is the crucial awareness that needs to be supplied to the responsible grower & smoker. I also believe the time is right for the SA Smokers & growers to embrace the info.

I like your idea , Roll with it.........

Power for the people...........

 

[motaco]

i don't think africa and the developing world in general should follow the examples set by the so called "first world". keep in mind that all africans were "unemployed" before the whites came, and they were living just fine without money.

no offense but I think you should really reread your post here.

as far as I know africans have starving children and an AIDS epidemic of biblical proportions as well as a lack of education that could help them in infinite ways and for you to say africa doesn't need money from an internet connection is IMHO hypocritical to say the least and definitely over stepping your boundaries. speak for yourself because I"m sure there are some starving ethiopians that would like to have a conversation with you about your views telling westerners to keep their money.

with money comes corruption but thats like saying with eating comes gluttony. but that doesn't change that starving sucks.

I don't know what world u live in but as far as I see it africa could use all the money it can get for medicine, education, government programs. etc.

 

[Guest]

motaco - things like food, housing, medicine, education, computers and internet connections are a product of human labour, not money.

 

[motaco]

wow. really. WOW.

I seriously don't know how to respond to that logic. product of human labor without money? u think people work for free? of course not. houses cost money, food costs money, educations cost money, medicine costs money.

and even if you make it yourself saws to cut trees for houses cost money, seeds and fertilzer costs money, etc. and if you traded livestock or whatever to get the tools you still made a monetary transaction.

you act like africans don't need money. whether your trading chickens or green backs its still currency and nothing will change that. your trying to fuck with a system old as dirt (trading of goods for other goods = currency/economics/capital) and you haven't given a different system. only that africans don't need money.


now if africans could sell chickens for aids medicine it might mean something, but merck's got all the chickens they need.


u think an african with a stick and a cow can farm aids medicine out the fuckin earth for his sick children? what are you talkin about? seriously. WTF are you talkin about?


if someone is starving you need to feed them. and food costs money. the labor to make food costs money, and the food itself costs money, as well as teaching africans how to make food for themselves costs money.

if you want to explain a plan to make africa a better nation without money I'm all ears. but it seems to me your spittin the anarchist views which never got anyone anywhere.

I would really like to hear your plan. if you got an idea for africa lets hear it. they can use all the help they can get

 

[Reign of Terror]

no offense but I think you should really reread your post here.

as far as I know africans have starving children and an AIDS epidemic of biblical proportions as well as a lack of education that could help them in infinite ways and for you to say africa doesn't need money from an internet connection is IMHO hypocritical to say the least and definitely over stepping your boundaries. speak for yourself because I"m sure there are some starving ethiopians that would like to have a conversation with you about your views telling westerners to keep their money.

with money comes corruption but thats like saying with eating comes gluttony. but that doesn't change that starving sucks.

I don't know what world u live in but as far as I see it africa could use all the money it can get for medicine, education, government programs. etc.

no what he said is true. he is obviously talking of a time far before aids. africa is the way it is because of white people trying to change everything.

 

[Guest]

every man must take responsibility for himself and his family, he owes it to the world. the sad truth is that africans reproduce even when they can barely support themselves, are HIV positive, abuse drugs etc... don't expect any sympathy from me, not for a fucking second.
all i'm saying is that individuals should take care of their own basic human needs and those of their dependants, i don't have a "plan" for africa because i'm not interested in interfering with peoples lives, all i can do is try to set the best example i can. i work and earn money as a means to an end. when i can buy some land i'll build a self-sustainable permaculture homestead with my own hands, and start a small family. then i'll invite community leaders and anyone else who's willing to learn.

edit: thanks r.o.t that's exactly right.

 

[motaco]

well if you think africa is like that because of the white man your welcome to believe so, but truth be told it would be NOTHING but cows and huts and shit if white people never came. people have and are raping africa of its resources but its silly to think they were fine before white people came. if not aids, than malaria, whatever. its africa. pick a disease, any disease.

Nubia was a great kingdom your right, but since then we've had rome and all and africa pretty much stayed the same. so I think they could use a lil help.


and you know despite how fucked up and ego driven it has all become the foundation of capitalism is that with capital you can help people that need it. and if anyone needs help its africa.

I've no plans to invade africans lives and I do think the west intrudes and imposes beliefs on others, but there are parts of africa that are so uneducated that they think if they sleep with someone who doesn't have aids their aids will be passed to them, and taken away from the original host and they'll be cured. the only people they know don't have aids are virgins, ie children. so they rape them thinking its going to cure their aids. I think enough money to educate them to stop doing that would be money well spent yes.

have u no sense of philanthropy? with all the shit going on in your country and u have no interest in helping? for a couple dollars I can make a bunch of africans lives much easier. why you wouldn't want the west to give them a helping hand is beyond my comprehension.

if you want to live on a little stretch of earth and only help you and yours go for it. but don't discourage others from making peoples lives easier who are starving to death.

see how u feel about helping hands if your born in the dirt of a hut in africa. doing shit on your own from scratch ain't that easy. we don't choose our parents and the least you can do is show a lil humility about the quality of life you were born into. I don't approve of the way they live and I understand its largely their own traditions that are the downfall of them, but it doesn't change that they are human and you can at least try. many of them want a better life and everything anyone else wants and its pretty hard to do that when your starting from nothing.

 

[Reign of Terror]

every man must take responsibility for himself and his family, he owes it to the world. the sad truth is that africans reproduce even when they can barely support themselves, are HIV positive, abuse drugs etc... don't expect any sympathy from me, not for a fucking second.
all i'm saying is that individuals should take care of their own basic human needs and those of their dependants, i don't have a "plan" for africa because i'm not interested in interfering with peoples lives, all i can do is try to set the best example i can. i work and earn money as a means to an end. when i can buy some land i'll build a self-sustainable permaculture homestead with my own hands, and start a small family. then i'll invite community leaders and anyone else who's willing to learn.

i agree motaco. ghost, imagine if you were in there situation. i bet you would like some help and not ridicule. they cant help the position theyre in, so why do you make it seem as though they are in control. aids like i said is an engineered virus. and the asshole who invented it, made no antidote...which is a great law against who even used make posions for a living. so how is it thier fault that they have the highest population with aids.

 

[Guest]

small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas.

i'm not going to get into an abstract, subjective, philosophical, "imagine if you where them" discussion about people, it bores me.
i'm a science-minded and objective person, so my only concern regarding people is their breeding rate and their impact on the environment. the only responsible and mature way for me to address these concerns is to lead by passive example. what the world needs is more neutrals, not emotional bleeding-heart samaritans, i'll never carry a man or stand in his way, but i will teach him a better way for free.