Covert Crops-base of operationz

[CovertCrops]

E.T. - Thank you. I am more than happy to entertain all questions. I would be very happy to talk top-feed it seems like ther isn't much conversation about it.

FB - Thanks man. Ya the numbers were light , it definitely still needs some dialing but I am starting to get more familiar with my strains. I still think the problem lies with my source water, should have an RO unit in a few weeks.

more pics soon.....

 

[CovertCrops]

So, I had to let the water company in the house today to change out my water meter. All my rooms are hidden but it's still sketchy. I'm extremly glad thats over with

Here is the 800watt room but I'm only running 400w in there now because I set up the 1k 3 purple kush, 4 super skunk.

Whats sad is that you can already see MG def from the canna aqua veg. Whats worse is that Canna took all the MG out of their aqua flores and boosted up the nitrogen !?!?!?! Im not too happy with the change and consindering different nutes.

 

[CovertCrops]

Here are some shots of the 1k tent. This is my first run with a 1k and I burnt a few leaves. I had my circ fan blowing in the space between the plants and the light. The plants didnt like that, so I adjusted the fan to blow on them and they are much happier, no more burn. This is a multi-strain trial table and not all of the plants agree on what they want to eat. They look rough, but they smell nice and I have notes on each strain now. Trying to find the silver lining.

Apollo

Purple kush

I picked up 4 more strains the other day. Super silver haze, east coast sour deisel, strawberry cough, and sensi star. Wasn't planning to add to my mother collection, but who can turn down fresh genes?

 

[dj.scotfree]

Hey bro... Looking great! I was wondering... Is that 1000 watt lighting a 4x4 table? If so what size of tent is that?

thanks, djsf

 

[CovertCrops]

DJSF - thank you. Yes it is a 1k over the 4x4. The tent is a sunhut 4x4 but it is really 54"x54". I have been pleased with the tent's operation.

 

[iceman423]

covert nice stuff you have going. eventually id like to get to where your at. im at teh testing stage ya know, making sure it can be done and the ins and outs of a smaller setup.. yer like 3 steps ahead of me-anyway i gotta question - what did that 9 piece table run ya?

 

[EvilTwin]

E.T. - Thank you. I am more than happy to entertain all questions. I would be very happy to talk top-feed it seems like their isn't much conversation about it.

Mornin' CC,
Well I've made the psychological commitment that top drip is what I want to do. Not sure exactly how many plants but I have 17 bucket-within-a-bucket 2 gallon pots with drain holes and hoses all set up.

I remember reading some details of a top drip over a year ago. It was a set-up by a guy I really respected. He used a pressure control system involving Tee-ing off from the nutrient pump and running a valved tube back to the res. Then he could control output pressure. The more that fed back to the res...the lower the pressure at the emitters. So I plan on using that system in the res. Hard to describe.

So do you use 1/2" vinyl tubing with holes in it to insert the 1/4" fittings into? Standard irrigation stuff.

And it looks like you merely insert the drip tube into the hydroton. No emitters? I bought a bunch of 1/4" Tees and planned on using them at the end to send the solution two ways. I want to keep it as simple and trouble free as possible.

Your multi-strain crop looks pretty good considering the complexity of satisfying all their needs without burning any of them. I've done that too many times.
Cheers,
ET

 

[CovertCrops]

Hi everyone,

Took down a purple kush last night along with some apollo and a skunk 1.

iceman423 - Thank you. I think I understand your question but then I'm not so sure. You want to know how much the 3x3 with 9 pots ran? all my trays are botanicare and the 3x3's run @ $103. The pots were cheap like $2.50 a pop, probably $60 in hydroton. Pumps are eco plus and cost $20-$25. I use "strong box" totes for all my Rez's like $9 each. Air pumps and stones $20 - $30. I'd say I built it up over time but I kinda got sick of my DIY tables and just overhauled. Subsequent rooms have been added because I'm seriously ocd about having enough trees. I hope that was what you were looking for if not let me know. I started small (250w in a closet) and it just kinda grew up from there. Its an enjoyable journey.

E.T. - You have committed yourself, eh? Me too Top fed systems have always appealed to me. I have no idea why.

Your bucket setup is essentially the same way I run my rigs except the table is my "outer bucket". I have 1.7 gal pots filled with hydroton as my "inner buckets". You probably already drew that conclusion tho.

I know exactly what you speak of when you say the Pump was T'd off and had an adjustable valve back to the rez. This is a form of pressure control and aeration. 3 of my tables are setup with valves on the end of the 1/2" tubing run. If I want to lower the pressure in my lines I can adjust the valve and The water will flow out the valve onto the table and back to the rez. I honestly don't ever use that, the other 2 tables merely have the 1/2" hose end kinked over and taped back on itself. Pressure is pretty much the same out of all feed lines. Adding a T at the end of your feed lines would help disperse the flow of water. After looking at the root balls from this go round I am convinced that anything more than open end 1/4" is unneseccary.

I use standard hydro tubing black 1/2" and the 1/4". It is the simplest, easiest method out there. It is cheap and easy to replace if it gets nasty.

How do you veg your plants? This run I just pulled had them vegged in 3" rw cubes. The were fed for 15 min every 2 hours. When I flipped the pot over to dump out the hydroton none came out! The root ball was the entire pot and it had all the hydroton locked in thight. I was blown away. I will be testing this further but here are some general observations I have made about feed timing.

Running the pump 24/7 can heat your rez temps, encourages more algea growth, and it encourages roots to grow out of the pot as opposed to in it.

A 15 min on/ 15 min off won't heat up your rez, but it does encourage more algea growth and encourages roots to grow outside of the pot.

15 min on/ 1 hour off is what I am currently testing for plants in 1.5" rw blocks.

15 min on/ 2 hour off is what I am currently testing for plants in 3" rw blocks.

Eventually I will buy a pricey short cycle timer but for now cheapies work just fine.

That was kinda long winded....
Any questions feel free to ask.

Smells like body odor and grapes.

I put my light rail back up in the 400w room. 400 watts on a mover over a 2x4. I expect good things for this.

I'll swing back thru with more pics soon. Thanks for stoppin by.

 

[Harvest]

 

[EvilTwin]

Greetings Covert,
What sold me on top drip was the experiments I did with a Hydrofarm when I first started dabbling in hydro 3-4 years ago. Amazingly rapid growth with no problems. I got side-tracked for awhile doing E&F and coco but I want to reduce my res size and improve aeration and top drip does that.

On the feed schedule...thanks for that info. Because of my success at running a Hydrofarm on an E&F schedule...I was thinking along those lines. 5-6 thirty minute feeds a day.

I'm still messing about regarding veg method. But I do have two small E&F trays in my veg room. So I'm thinking of going from 1" rockwool cubes into very small (beer cup size) pots using E&F until I feel the roots are developed and height is adequate. Then into the 2 gallon pots directly to 12/12.

I'm pleased you understood the pressure adjustment T/valve. I've tried explaining it before and was met with blank stares. lol I think I'll use it...it's a cheap method and I suspect I'll be changing my system around until I'm happy with it. And the pressure adjustment will allow me to tailor pressure to the number of pots I have. I also like the fact that the nutrient solution going back into the res is extra aeration during a time that you want it.

The more I think on this...the more questions I'll have. Now I know where to direct them...
peace,
ET

 

[CovertCrops]

Hi ET,

I had considered E&F but I like that I can get away with a smaller rez with top fed. Growth rates from these systems are fantastic but I have been struggling to find an acceptable way to veg. I tried vegging in beer cups on a e&f table. The plants grew great but when i transplated them into the 1.7 gal pots some would get stressed and stunt

To date, the best results I have had came from vegging in 3" rw cubes. I will veg my next run in them and see if I get the same results.

The T/ valve back to res is similar to the "water fall" concept but it also will benefit your control over inputs into the buckets which may be relevant when buckets are spaced far apart.

Your system will evolve as it operates, nothing like getting the kinks out

Feel free to ask all the questions you want, I'm no expert but I give it my best effort.

Peace
CC

 

[dj.scotfree]

Hi CC! I was wondering what size pump you use for your 4x4 table? I saw you were using a 396 gph for the 3x3 with 16 pots...I have been running top-feed drip systems with the square pots for awhile... I seem to have the best results with 3" net pots filled with hydroton in a homemade aero-cloner/ vegger...Once the roots are long enough in the vegger I remove them... Then I put an inch layer of hydroton in the bottom of the square pots then loop the roots around on that layer... then I fill with more hydroton...layer again a few more times until the 3" net pot is sitting an inch below the top of the square pot... I then put the dripper(s), T's, or drip circles down and then top fill with about an inch of hydroton. They seem to take right off! I have some pictures I'll try to find...I haven't posted my grows in awhile... Hope this helps!

peace bro,

DJSF

 

[CovertCrops]

Dj. scotfree,

I like your veg setup. I have been considering the net pots and I do want to try them I just have to modify the veg table to accomadate net pots. I almost got them today, but after the results with the rockwool I figured I'd give them another go before I modified the veg table. I'd love to see pics of your veg setup.

My 4x4 tent is actually 2 2x4's as opposed to one 4x4. I use the 200-something gph pumps for those tables, usually 8 pots. I have run 15 pots on a 2x4 with a 128 gph pump with adequate pressure at each feed line. I have been pretty darn impressed with the eco-plus pumps.
After you transplant the net cups to the pots what is your irrigation schedule? Thanks for checkin in.

Peace
CC

 

[dj.scotfree]

Well, I have been tweaking it for awhile... In the past when I didn't have the pump yet I hand watered twice a day with a gallon of nutes just running it through the pot & capturing the runoff (16 pots). This only worked since the plants were smaller (in veg) Once I got the pump I messed around with the timing for awhile... Now I go about 5 minutes on every hour and for 5 minutes 4 times when the light is off. I am still working on it.

peace, djsf

 

[Deaner]

I like your style brother! How many trays do you have in flowering?

 

[Mist]

Ahhh, now I see why you have been watching my grow. If the Canna is giving you Mg problems why not just add some epsom salts? Just mix 1tsp per 10 gallons to start and see how they react. I forget what nutrient brand I was running years ago that had that issue, but really rocked in flowering. And the epsom salts are very inexpensive. A 1/2 gallons sized carton from the drug store will last a looooong time.
I am still liking the PBP on this grow though and can always switch back to Canna if it doesn't perform as well. God knows I didn't throw any away at that price.
When you were using the PBP were you using the additives too? I am using bloom, liquid karma, cal-mag plus and sweet. I have noticed that I didn't get so much stretch this time without there being the PK 13-14 in the mix. Not to sure on the benifits of that additive at this point.
Plants look good to by the way and I like your setup a lot.


Happy Growing.

 

[CovertCrops]

DJsf - Thanks for letting me in on your irrigation schedule. I will be experimenting with frequency and duration over the next few grows. I will post results back here.

Deaner - Thanks bro. Right now I'm flowering with 5 trays. 2 3x3's and 3 2x4's. I will probably add a 2x2 to fill in a blank space thats been bothering me.

Mist - Thanks for stopping in. I had intended to try out supplement the Canna with Sweet. I just couldn't seem to get myself to buy it. I finally got a bunch of epsom salt( shoulda done that long ago). I have been using a 1/4 tsp/gal or like 1.25 ml/gal. What bothers me about Canna is that you pay a good price for an incomplete fertilizer? do you premix your epsom salt in a seperate bottle before adding to the Rez?

I had pretty good results using PBP alone. Healthiest plants to date came from PBP. I don't want to say that I am anti-additive but I want to have a good feel for my strains on base nutes before I start with additives. PBP does have low Phos. and MG which may need to be supplemented.

With 5 tables I thought It would be prudent to run different nutes on each table.

Table 1 is now running General Hydroponics flora series with "Lucas" formula

Table 2 is running PBP bloom at 15 ml/gal supplemented with 4 ml/gal Canna PK 13/14 and epsom salt at 1.25 ml/gal.

Table 3 is 2 weeks into flower and is on PBP bloom at 15 ml/gal.

Table 4 & 5 are heading into flush

I am still debating what other nutrients I should try. I have noticed that some strains perform better with a specific nutrient. The observations you made on stretch are helpful, how much PBP were you feeding through the strecth phase?

Are you using Rhizotonic? Here is the sales pitch from the hydro shop guy: " You will cream your pants when you see the roots!" He was not kidding. That stuff is out of this world!!!!

Peace
CC

 

[Mist]

I don't know if I would be using the additives for Canna with the PBP because they are made specifically to go with the particular brand and you could be overdosing the plants on certian components of the nutrients. When I used the Canna aqua I was also useing Cannazym and Rhizotonic. With the Botanicare I am using the reccomended additives for that line. Here is a link to the botanicare feeding chart>

http://www.botanical.com/hydro/nutrients/BotanicareFeedSchedule_0507.pdf

Canna also has a feeding chart that may help you. It is what I used as a guide for my firt two runs with it.

http://www.canna-uk.com/growguide

Maybe by sticking to the mixtures of nutrients and additives layed out for each brand you will get better results.

 

[CovertCrops]

Mist - Good lookin out on the nutrient overdoses. I just started one table with the pbp/pk combo, all other runs have stayed true to brand of fert. I also use that handy spreadsheet by ph/lucas to make sure I don't overdo any component. I have been certain for sometime that my water quality is causing problems. All plants display the same symptoms within weeks of starting flower regardless of nutrient brand or feed strength. The top of my hydroton is covered with white mineral deposits.

So I finally ordered my RO unit. Grabed the GE Merlin which appears to be the same thing as the hydro-logic merlin GP only the GE is half the price 30 gallons of RO water per hour, I'm in! Now I just gotta wait for it to get here. . . . . .

 

[CovertCrops]

Just a little update of whats left in the 1k tent.

Purple Kush

Trainwreck

Strawberry Desiel

My Christmas present to myself