YOUR GARDEN IS NOT ORGANIC...

[xmobotx]

i agree

i agree

I've been a member, in good standing for over 20 years, of the Oregon Tilth organization and while I've had my issues with them on a few deals I think that they're one of the best organizations promoting organic farming that there is.

Their acceptance by various state legislatures to 'embrace' the Oregon Tilth paradigm as their state laws regarding organic produce standards says volumes, IMHO.

Good folks from my perspective. Not without some mild complaints but nothing worthy of note.

HTH

CC

i have to like a program like oregon tilth - stuff that spreads the word

i dont agree w/ the minimums and products labeled as organic (USDA) -i fear the term can be manipulated to allow big ag to continue w/ it's usual practices (after all, everything's organic- it came from the earth)

like i say, it's best to have a garden from all once living and local source -i.e. my chickens my cows my field

garbage in/garbage out -maybe a product is OK? but id rather know

 

[mad librettist]

Wow I can understand disagreeing on the term organic as applied to gardening.

But confusing the general term with the chemistry term?

Carbon has nothing to do with whether a practice belongs in organic gardening (example: watering)

 

[NUG-JUG]

I think people growing organic and inorganic forget the importance of flushing out their bud properly. I've smoked organic buds (or so they said) that would't burn, were high in P-K, burned my throat.

Horsehockey!..once you truly understand organics flushing makes no sense. Yes it's important as hell in hydro I CAN notice synthetic nutes in all hydro. Flushed or not. No organic pot "won't burn", unless it's not dry.

peace-nj

 

[Dignan]

No disrespect intended but when people say they've smoked organic buds that smoked harsh, they are missing part of the story, somewhere. Either the bud they smoked:

1. Wasn't truly grown organically (like the people who think they grow organic but then add Botanicare Cal-Mag or FF Tiger Bloom or some other organic-based product)...

2. Wasn't truly grown well (like people who try to force-feed their plants N-P-K because they think they know what the plant needs and when it needs it and they end up bombarding the soil biota so that the microbial population is reeling like a drunk at a hockey game)...

or

3. Wasn't handled well post-harvest.

If you are growing without soluble nutrient products, using a well-balanced and mellow soil mix and you are drying/curing properly, there is no need to flush. Google "selective uptake" "plants" and "soil" and you'll find many studies that explain why this is.

 

[VerdantGreen]

yes there is no doubt that organic buds can be shit - it is very easy to overfeed organic plants just like plants grown any other way.

but if you get it right then you wont get anything tastier imo

VG.

 

[vonforne]

I ask not long ago for opinions on the term ´Organic` I received as many different answers as I did posts. I think Natural is the best term for some of us. And we are all aware that Mother Earth can handle nuclear waste given enough time.

Organic is a fabricated word. Fabricated for marketing products to the mass population. Fabricated for profit at our expense. Nothing more.....nothing less.

V.1

 

[xmobotx]

Organic perlite? Please! Organic pumice? Seriously?

i don't get it CC? are you saying neither perlite nor pumice have a place in an organic grow?

good news for straight coco advocates! (assuming they then feed organic?)

 

[Clackamas Coot]

i don't get it CC? are you saying neither perlite nor pumice have a place in an organic grow?

xmobotx

Absolutely not. What I was trying to say is that it escapes me how perlite or pumice (as an example) could be either 'organic' or 'non-organic' per se.

I can understand how alfalfa meal can be one or the other. Same with any other amendment which comes from a plant or an animal - not hard to wrap my brain around that at all.

Same thing with 'organic glacial rock dust' - huh?

Maybe it's just me and my lack of understanding of what the term 'organic' actually means across the board.

No big deal. I use pumice and will continue to do so but I'm probably not going to spend too much time looking for an 'organic pumice' source.

LOL

CC

 

[xmobotx]

haa ha ha - YES! that absolutely occurred to me.

I'm waiting for "Organic" brand

IOW, maybe "suitable for organic use" is more appropriate

 

[Lazyman]

I think a properly flushed chem grow (which is stupid, it's ALL chemicals) smokes great and smooth, and after a good cure organics and chem products are indistinguishable.

I gave up organics indoors, even the best bottled organic nutes were slightly slower to uptake and required much higher application rates than salt-based ferts, and resulted in a ~5% loss in yield when I did a side by side grow.

I don't go calling anything organic though, but it is laughable to see people get excited when they THINK it's organic because it smokes so well. Fuckin tards.

 

[guest2012y]

I'm so confuzzzed!

Trying not to spray some good friends medicine with commercial pesticides would be a good place to start.

 

[Lazyman]

I use Floramite but I also smoke my own product too, I'd rather have bud for my patients than nothing. Neem just doesn't kill eggs and only lasts for a few days at best. Screw that!

 

[mad librettist]

How is using floramite on product for patients even ethical?

Am I mistaken? Or is floramite not even allowed on food crops?


I have very little issue with responsible chem growing on the individual level. But taken as a whole, I believe the mj industry is causing some pretty significant damage. The more we can rely on natural, local inputs, the better our contribution to humanity.


Von- are you sure you didn't mean to say organic as a term has been appropriated? Certainly I agree that it is damaged beyond repair. But still I throw buckets on the ashes.

 

[Microbeman]

I still don't understand the concept of 'feeding' plants if one is growing using organic techniques [which to me is growing somewhat naturally]. If I topdress with quality vermicompost or compost when a plant is in flower, the plant is not going to be overfed because I'm not feeding the plant, however after harvesting that plant and replanting a young vegetating plant in its stead, it wil derive nitrogen from that very same compost through microbial interaction. This is, in my limited experience, how nature works. On the other hand, if I force a bunch of concocted liquid (or..) ionic or smothering form fertilizers on the same flowering plant, there is likely to be a negative impact which might be interpreted as overfeeding.

 

[mad librettist]

Very nicely put microbeman.

 

[xmobotx]

it strikes me as interesting that bad "overfeeding" looks a lot like when the cat pisses in the mix

 

[schizobot]

I still don't understand the concept of 'feeding' plants if one is growing using organic techniques [which to me is growing somewhat naturally]. If I topdress with quality vermicompost or compost when a plant is in flower, the plant is not going to be overfed because I'm not feeding the plant, however after harvesting that plant and replanting a young vegetating plant in its stead, it wil derive nitrogen from that very same compost through microbial interaction. This is, in my limited experience, how nature works. On the other hand, if I force a bunch of concocted liquid (or..) ionic or smothering form fertilizers on the same flowering plant, there is likely to be a negative impact which might be interpreted as overfeeding.

interesting point u bring up.
And that is probably bcoz all the bottled organic nutrients are more readily available than raw organic products(i think).So if u feed the plants with the bottled organic nutrients , there is a chance the starving plant can tend to take up more nutrients than it needs and screw up in the process.But with raw products which take time to break up and provide nutrition to the plant , i assume the process is more gradual and the chance of overfeeding and the plant sucking up more than it needs is lesser than with readily available nutrients.(considering u have a balanced organic mix).Thats why a system with raw organic materials will be always be more forgiving as opposed to a feeding regime which incorporates nutrients which are readily available to the plant.
I think either ways u gotta be vigilant , and look out for signs of overfeeding and ph issues.A plant can definetly take up more nutrients than it needs whether its an organic system or a synthetic one. Traditionally marijuana has been growin in natural soil all over the sweet spots in the world , where the soil is probably not as rich as the soil u can procure in your local growshop.So the chance of overfeeding gets greatly diminished over there , where the roots are growing in a community and sharing nutes with each other, and the rain probably helping in the removal of excess salt buildup if there was any.But when u take nature into ur own hands u gotta know what ur doing.
Again just like you , im no expert in this area , but this is what i have noticed using both bottled organic nutes and raw organic materials which are barely processed.I could however be wrong , and would love for someone to correct me n educate me further as to what really is the story behind overfeeding in organic systems.

Sticking to the topic , i think the whole point of having an organic medium as opposed to a sterile medium , is the fact the roots are interacting with the system around it , which in imo would produce a more wholesome product , and the plant will be able to express itself better as opposed to hydro wheres its being supplied all the shit directly , like some lazy prick on a recliner .

just my 2 cents

 

[Dignan]

Thank you, Microbeman. Hallelujah.

 

[Lazyman]

How is using floramite on product for patients even ethical?

Am I mistaken? Or is floramite not even allowed on food crops?

Because its not unethical, and yes it's allowed on food crops. Copied from another site:

Use of Floramite SC™ for management of two-spotted spider mites (TSSM) on greenhouse cucumber, tomato, and pepper was recently approved in Canada by the Pest Management Regulatory Agency. This product offers greenhouse vegetable growers new chemistry for managing TSSM in IPM programs, particularly those that incorporate the use of biological control agents.

Mode of action and effectiveness: Floramite is a non-systemic miticide that kills TSSM by disrupting the nervous system. Although Floramite is primarily active against the adults and nymphs of spider mites, it also has activity against eggs. Floramite kills TSSM by contact activity within three days and persists on the plant surface for up to about 28 days. Investigations done by Les Shipp and collaborators at the Greenhouse & Processing Crops Research Centre (GPCRC) in Harrow showed that the label rate (133 ml/400L water) resulted in 95 per cent mortality of TSSM after 48 hours. Using the same rate in greenhouse trials on cucumber, when TSSM were exposed to residues that were 14, 21 and 28 days old, the mortality was 92, 78 and 61 per cent respectively.

For maximum effectiveness under commercial conditions, the non-systemic nature of this product requires thorough coverage of upper and lower leaf surfaces. In addition, to avoid degradation of the active ingredient, solutions should be mixed in water held at room temperature (about 23˚C) and with a pH of 5 to 6. Floramite degrades rapidly when stored or mixed with hot, alkaline water.

Compatibility with beneficials: Laboratory studies at GPCRC, also by Les Shipp and collaborators, have demonstrated that Floramite is selective in its activity and is compatible with the use of beneficial arthropods. These studies indicate that Floramite is harmless to some of the most commonly used biological control agents in greenhouse crops. When exposed to one- to seven-day-old residues of Floramite applied at four times the recommended rate on cucumber, the mortality in Orius insidiosus, Encarsia formosa, and

Phytoseiulus persimilis after 48 hours was approximately six, three and 14 per cent respectively.

Another study carried out in Australia indicated that exposing P. persimilis to Floramite residues had minimal effect on egg-laying and mortality during the treatment period of four days. In addition, immersion of female P. persimilis in a Floramite solution for 30 seconds did not affect the number of eggs laid, percentage eggs hatched, nor larval development.

Observations from this research also indicated that Floramite appeared to have a somewhat repellent effect. Such an effect may cause predators to move to untreated areas, but this would likely happen anyway due to lack of live prey on the treated areas.

With regard to bees, other studies indicate that direct application of Floramite to bees should be avoided because it is moderately toxic to them. Dried residues on foliage, however, are safe to bees.

Resistance management: To ensure that Floramite remains effective, growers need to avoid or minimize the development of resistance by implementing the following recommendations:

1. Use Floramite as per label recommendations.

2. Use Floramite as part of an IPM program in which monitoring is routinely carried out to facilitate early detection of pests, and to monitor populations of pests and biological control agents.

3. Use biological control as the major strategy for managing TSSM; Floramite should only be applied to regain a favourable predator

est ratio.

4. Use Floramite sparingly, preferably in spot treatments.

5. Rotate Floramite with other miticides that are currently registered for use on greenhouse vegetables if chemical control is the major strategy.

As with all other pesticides, all labels should be carefully read for directions, and all safety precautions taken.

 

[grapeman]

interesting point u bring up.
And that is probably bcoz all the bottled organic nutrients are more readily available than raw organic products(i think).So if u feed the plants with the bottled organic nutrients , there is a chance the starving plant can tend to take up more nutrients than it needs and screw up in the process.But with raw products which take time to break up and provide nutrition to the plant , i assume the process is more gradual and the chance of overfeeding and the plant sucking up more than it needs is lesser than with readily available nutrients.(considering u have a balanced organic mix).Thats why a system with raw organic materials will be always be more forgiving as opposed to a feeding regime which incorporates nutrients which are readily available to the plant.
I think either ways u gotta be vigilant , and look out for signs of overfeeding and ph issues.A plant can definetly take up more nutrients than it needs whether its an organic system or a synthetic one. Traditionally marijuana has been growin in natural soil all over the sweet spots in the world , where the soil is probably not as rich as the soil u can procure in your local growshop.So the chance of overfeeding gets greatly diminished over there , where the roots are growing in a community and sharing nutes with each other, and the rain probably helping in the removal of excess salt buildup if there was any.But when u take nature into ur own hands u gotta know what ur doing.
Again just like you , im no expert in this area , but this is what i have noticed using both bottled organic nutes and raw organic materials which are barely processed.I could however be wrong , and would love for someone to correct me n educate me further as to what really is the story behind overfeeding in organic systems.

Sticking to the topic , i think the whole point of having an organic medium as opposed to a sterile medium , is the fact the roots are interacting with the system around it , which in imo would produce a more wholesome product , and the plant will be able to express itself better as opposed to hydro wheres its being supplied all the shit directly , like some lazy prick on a recliner .

just my 2 cents

I, for one, would disagree. If I want a quick jolt of growth (N), I would apply CAN17 (calcium nitrate 17%) which is an immediate form of N. for phosphates, I would apply phosphites, which is easily absorbed by either roots or leaves for a quick shot of P, etc..

An organic approach, from what i am learning, is a more measured approach with a balanced soil and micros that help feed the plant.

From my experience on a more macro scale, I just cannot agree that organics nutrients contain a more available form of anything as compared to synthetic fertilizers. I am trying to do an organic grow (for reason unrelated to snobbery, taste or yield) now and trying to learn from several posters. but if I wanted a quick release immediate reaction from a nutrient, I wouldn't be using organic fertilizers.