You Gotta SIP, Not Slurp

[flylowgethigh]

I use a SWICK. That is a container with a hollow tube inside to allow a water cavity, and support the weight of the plant. The top of the perlite is 3" above the tube. You can drill a hole in the container at the height of the top of the tube, and stick a straw in. That will set the max water height. The water in the tub will wick up the top few inches. On the bed of perlite I place my bag if soil and the plant. The water wicks up through the bag into the soil. When I top water to feed, the excess water runs through the bag into the bed.

One tent has a pump from a reservoir to put water in the control box, and return it to the reservoir using pumps. The other tent is tubs with a straw, drain to a bowl. Look at my grow diaries.

 

[Bio boy]

I use a SWICK. That is a container with a hollow tube inside to allow a water cavity, and support the weight of the plant. The top of the perlite is 3" above the tube. You can drill a hole in the container at the height of the top of the tube, and stick a straw in. That will set the max water height. The water in the tub will wick up the top few inches. On the bed of perlite I place my bag if soil and the plant. The water wicks up through the bag into the soil. When I top water to feed, the excess water runs through the bag into the bed.

One tent has a pump from a reservoir to put water in the control box, and return it to the reservoir using pumps. The other tent is tubs with a straw, drain to a bowl. Look at my grow diaries.

so I still need perlite in the pots ?
them boxes they sell seems to just hover on water ? if the net pot breaks it from being sat in water why is perlite needed seems it will take up water space only ??

I’ve had a look at ya diary I can’t see ya system right wel lol or I’m looking at the wrong one as to say in there that the pots design isn’t working as well as the rez controlled one which I can’t seem to find ?

ye once’s all in I kinda can’t get to the back easy so I need to set and be able to control at the front

 

[Bio boy]

Seems like the guide is for a sip and you’ve changed to an automated noobs swick ?
im on swick atm and it’s ok but feels like sip is an upgrade

I kinda pictured an oxy hydro setup with no pumps like a kratky cross

but where there is a net pot that is filled with pearlite and a fabric pot ontop

the bottom bucket would stay level with the control bucket float and drain hole placed at the air gap on each leading back to control bucket through each tank stops them over filling ….
could even theoretically use a 15w pump and recirculate it to stop stagnant water pump to the end bucket and allow it to drain back to control either continuously or hourly with low pressure pump It would be a slow movement like a stream or natural water table movement and shouldn’t even use the overflow to return
jist fill at the end and let it return to level gradually

 

[ReservoirDog]

Yeah, you`re on the right path there, BB. If you go back to the beginning of thread the threadstarter lays out his build with control bucket and res, all gravity, self-lvl.

You can do away with the solid perlite layer in my opinion. An opinion I will qualify as coming only from one Canadian tomato season, and one month of cannabis veg.

My DIY SIPs have a hard floor between res and soil container with large soil filled wick-foot made from net cups. This setup provides me an actual 19 gallons grow matrix and 6.4-6.6 gal fertigation or water.

Unfortunately, I came up with the design without the benefit of this great thread and based it on the nesting 5 gal bucket design. I know I searched a lot online, but I guess not hard enough. Not too much I would do different, but I`m certainly glad to have found this thread and in particular, some growers with actual experience running the containers with control buckets.

I`m going to be watching and waiting on your project, I hope you`ll choose to share as much as possible. I`ll pull some pics together of mine. I just finished reading the whole thread just now. Looks like just the two of us at the moment my friend.

Have you checked out the Passive Plant Killer system. It`s somewhat similar and interesting, I believe it was born on this forum. This SIP system so far keeps up with my DWC quite well, but I`m new to DWC and don't want to make great claims as a result.

I think introducing a pump on a circular system to stir the pot is an excellent idea if your matrix and nutes warrant it. If running organic it wouldn`t hurt, much, but would likely only help if you had leaching issues from adding liquid inputs from the top. Oxygenation appears to be a non-issue in organic, and likely with everything. Airstones will swing pH if overused, and I went a different direction. For me, liquid inputs through the top complicate matters considerably.

My SIPs are disconnected, hand watered. I placed a 17 gallon tote nested in a 27 gallon tote. Bottom of 17 gal. tote is drilled out with 1 inch holes everywhere except atop a large netpot, my wick, where I place multiple 3 inch holes. Burlap lines the 17 gal to keep soil out of the res.

My drain, or, level-minder, hole is .75 inch PVC with a screen, placed with its highest point just under the top of my wick-foot, maintaining a one inch airgap at all times, minimum.

Both my 17 gal planter and the netpot `foot` are filled with 60% coco-peatmoss mix , 40% perlite. I chose 60-40 because this is what Octopot instructs for its users. A bail of Sunshine no.4 fills about 3.5 units.

In three of my units I have a small aquarium pump, eco-185 I think, with a venturi on it. The small air-line runs up the fill tube where I can pinch it off if I just want the pump to stir the reservoir and not add any oxygen. Long oxygenation sessions will swing the pH in my setup, which I monitor as I have a DWC in same tote sizes running alongside in one or both tents.

With the cannabis I`m running very low doses of Mega Crop 2 part in the res, ok so far. Last summer for the tomatoes I was running slow release organics with peat, perlite, garden soil mix. No issues to speak of.

A big thankyou to threadstarter and to all contributors. I hope you`re all well and finding great fulfillment in your endeavours. We who ride your coattails are most grateful for what you`ve done for us here.

I also bloody well hope you Yanks can federalize legalization one day so you can come out from under the shadow of prohibition.

Of course, you`ll have to still live in a democracy to have a chance at that.

You think you know how harmful cannabis prohibition is when you`re experiencing it, I know I did, but when it recedes, f%$/ me, the view of destruction and wasted human potential is truly staggering. That`s what they want to make sure you never see, the real harm this total cock up has truly created because at a bare minimum it`ll mean you`ll never vote for a single one of them again if you do. My two cents.

 

[Bio boy]

Yeah, you`re on the right path there, BB. If you go back to the beginning of thread the threadstarter lays out his build with control bucket and res, all gravity, self-lvl.

thanks for the reply bro hope you don’t mind me replying like this as my pc is broke and phone hates me typing and reading

You can do away with the solid perlite layer in my opinion. An opinion I will qualify as coming only from one Canadian tomato season, and one month of cannabis veg.

so I don’t need a pearlite fooot? I thaight some said they used same soil in the foot but I assumed that it would become too wet ?

My DIY SIPs have a hard floor between res and soil container with large soil filled wick-foot made from net cups. This setup provides me an actual 19 gallons grow matrix and 6.4-6.6 gal fertigation or water.

Unfortunately, I came up with the design without the benefit of this great thread and based it on the nesting 5 gal bucket design. I know I searched a lot online, but I guess not hard enough. Not too much I would do different, but I`m certainly glad to have found this thread and in particular, some growers with actual experience running the containers with control buckets.

I`m going to be watching and waiting on your project, I hope you`ll choose to share as much as possible. I`ll pull some pics together of mine. I just finished reading the whole thread just now. Looks like just the two of us at the moment my friend.

id love to see your pics mate really interesting story and you can’t see enough in my opinion

Have you checked out the Passive Plant Killer system. It`s somewhat similar and interesting, I believe it was born on this forum. This SIP system so far keeps up with my DWC quite well, but I`m new to DWC and don't want to make great claims as a result.

nah il go look now ….dwc is piss I’d say any results u see especially with mega are spot on I was using them

I think introducing a pump on a circular system to stir the pot is an excellent idea if your matrix and nutes warrant it. If running organic it wouldn`t hurt, much, but would likely only help if you had leaching issues from adding liquid inputs from the top. Oxygenation appears to be a non-issue in organic, and likely with everything. Airstones will swing pH if overused, and I went a different direction. For me, liquid inputs through the top complicate matters considerably.

yes airstones also push bacteria in a bad way , but fluming I did test on a simple pump va air stones and the pump just pushing water made more oxygen than the air stones 10x over
my idea is to run the buckets just to keep flow oxygen fresh the buckets up and won’t effect ph
also I use to water so my water is stable
if your on tap it’s the calcium carbonates swinging the ph try drop citric acid in first and il see the chemical reaction pops on calcium causing co2 so no citric no cal
then your ph will stabilise better that’s how I do the garden then raise the ratio 7.1 ca mg with Epsom salts
this also helps under intense light or led as they need more mg by 70ppm

My SIPs are disconnected, hand watered. I placed a 17 gallon tote nested in a 27 gallon tote. Bottom of 17 gal. tote is drilled out with 1 inch holes everywhere except atop a large netpot, my wick, where I place multiple 3 inch holes. Burlap lines the 17 gal to keep soil out of the res.

you hand water each sip ? Wow bet that’s intensive or do you use the hose

My drain, or, level-minder, hole is .75 inch PVC with a screen, placed with its highest point just under the top of my wick-foot, maintaining a one inch airgap at all times, minimum.

where does it drain to ? The floor ? Your lucky and out on ground floor eh hehe I’m in my bedroom this is why I was running overflow back to res

Both my 17 gal planter and the netpot `foot` are filled with 60% coco-peatmoss mix , 40% perlite. I chose 60-40 because this is what Octopot instructs for its users. A bail of Sunshine no.4 fills about 3.5 units.

yea I’m totally organic so peat wool worms and pearlite

In three of my units I have a small aquarium pump, eco-185 I think, with a venturi on it. The small air-line runs up the fill tube where I can pinch it off if I just want the pump to stir the reservoir and not add any oxygen. Long oxygenation sessions will swing the pH in my setup, which I monitor as I have a DWC in same tote sizes running alongside in one or both tents.

ro filter for like £40 and 1000litres is only £1.20 so not a lot of waste

With the cannabis I`m running very low doses of Mega Crop 2 part in the res, ok so far. Last summer for the tomatoes I was running slow release organics with peat, perlite, garden soil mix. No issues to speak of.

I used mega salt before I went to organic
defo add Epsom salt there’s a program by fleetwood who explains it but they will double in size as they don’t use near enough mg otherwise as far as fert go there the only ones I’d trust besides jacks

A big thankyou to threadstarter and to all contributors. I hope you`re all well and finding great fulfillment in your endeavours. We who ride your coattails are most grateful for what you`ve done for us here.

I also bloody well hope you Yanks can federalize legalization one day so you can come out from under the shadow of prohibition.

your not in the states ? Canada?

Of course, you`ll have to still live in a democracy to have a chance at that.

You think you know how harmful cannabis prohibition is when you`re experiencing it, I know I did, but when it recedes, f%$/ me, the view of destruction and wasted human potential is truly staggering. That`s what they want to make sure you never see, the real harm this total cock up has truly created because at a bare minimum it`ll mean you`ll never vote for a single one of them again if you do. My two cents.

Thankyou both for your time this was a good lump can’t wait to see the system will help me plan mine too

 

[Bio boy]

What’s your thought on this valve u can buy them seperatly

AutoPot Spares

AutoPot Spares All the spare parts you need to replace your AutoPot system components, including essential Marix discs to stop media escaping your pot and root control discs to stop roots growing into pipe work. How AutoPot Spares Work Spare AQUAvalve Regulates the flow of nutrient to AutoPot...

www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk

using these in each pot would eliminate need for airgap control and a control bucket and skip straight to a res and less room taken up

the system is expensive but the valve isn’t it maintains 20mm water and fills when it’s gone


edit
its a float valve in a plastic root protector tub I can make this with float and a small lunch box with drilled holes

 

[flylowgethigh]

You can try the SWICK system with minimal stuff. A tub, a section of drain pipe, some perlite, and a straw. Drill the hole at the height of the top of the drain pipe, and have 2" of perlite above that. The max water level is where the straw is - that sets water height. The perlite can wick 2" of water up, and that zone is where you will find water roots that went through the bag down into the perlite.

Doesn't get much simpler than this...



Results speak for themselves. NLHaze at 11 weeks:

 

[Bio boy]

You can try the SWICK system with minimal stuff. A tub, a section of drain pipe, some perlite, and a straw. Drill the hole at the height of the top of the drain pipe, and have 2" of perlite above that. The max water level is where the straw is - that sets water height. The perlite can wick 2" of water up, and that zone is where you will find water roots that went through the bag down into the perlite.

Doesn't get much simpler than this...

View attachment 18735136

Results speak for themselves. NLHaze at 11 weeks:

View attachment 18735137

So what makes it sip and not swick there seemingly the same ?

 

[flylowgethigh]

I believe a SIP is soil that is placed directly on top of the perlite. A SWICK is a bag of soil placed on the perlite bed. A Swick is incredibly practical with a 10 gallon bag size. 7 gallons is easier to heft. The soil runs really wet in the bag, and microbes seem happy in there. I run 4 bags in a 4 x 4 tent, unless the plants are gonna be huge like the Hazes can be.

 

[Bio boy]

I believe a SIP is soil that is placed directly on top of the perlite. A SWICK is a bag of soil placed on the perlite bed. A Swick is incredibly practical with a 10 gallon bag size. 7 gallons is easier to heft. The soil runs really wet in the bag, and microbes seem happy in there. I run 4 bags in a 4 x 4 tent, unless the plants are gonna be huge like the Hazes can be.

Fuck knows why I just bought 8 fabric pots in the hydro shop when I wanted buckets ffs

well guess I’m gonna slip them into the buckets and cut a hole outa them for the net pot lol don’t wanna waste ‘‘em so they wil just be my bags incase I wanna take ‘‘em up without all the base

but if it runs wet wet .. I could chop the bucket top off so the net pot sits inside the bucket like a plant tray with the top exposed To air dry and prune would push roots down or would they render the system pointless ?

 

[flylowgethigh]

Fuck knows why I just bought 8 fabric pots in the hydro shop when I wanted buckets ffs

well guess I’m gonna slip them into the buckets and cut a hole outa them for the net pot lol don’t wanna waste ‘‘em so they wil just be my bags incase I wanna take ‘‘em up without all the base

but if it runs wet wet .. I could chop the bucket top off so the net pot sits inside the bucket like a plant tray with the top exposed To air dry and prune would push roots down or would they render the system pointless ?

I don't know what to tell you. The SWICK system works, but me and Sweet Sue are possibly the only ones doing it. Good luck with whatever you come up with.

 

[Bio boy]

would you say this is suitable .I saw you tell someone there’s isn’t tall enough to wick properly

to found these 12l buckets at the Walmart cheap and put a 26l fabric pot inside and rolled it down

I’ve packed in 19litres of soil and lightly pressed down when compressed lightly it fits perfect inside the 12l bag

have I found a suitable pot or do I neeed to be narrower and taller

 

[thailer]

Mom is outta smoke and very unhappy so I cleaned out the grow room I never took apart and I'm picking up my old jelly breath tomorrow! Still can't smoke it myself but I am stoked to dust off the old sip system.

 

[Squirrel Master]

Thanks Thailer! Love the SIP

 

[1ManGrow]

My 1st SIP attempt.

this was 16/17 days of 12/12


Currently on day 20.

 

[Bio boy]

My 1st SIP attempt.

this was 16/17 days of 12/12


Currently on day 20.

I’d be hitting them with some epsom salt they look hungry as hell like I normally see this right before mg def especially in flower early days
I found they need 90ppm mg each water and defo if under led as they need more

Or at least a kelp and worm pop slurry

Ps recently learnt do not add Epsom to soil it kills the soil you need to foilar only

 

[1ManGrow]

I’d be hitting them with some epsom salt they look hungry as hell like I normally see this right before mg def especially in flower early days
I found they need 90ppm mg each water and defo if under led as they need more

Or at least a kelp and worm pop slurry

I did put about 30 - 40 red wigglers in the sip during Veg .. Weird you mentioned this. I have what i believe is an issue.



It seems to be getting better. I gave it some build a soil craft blend at the beginning of flower and have only been using water ever since.. Any help would be much appreciated.

The first two leaf picture were from 5/6 days ago.The next two from yesterday I will get an updated leaf picture once lights come on tonight.

 

[Bio boy]

I did put about 30 - 40 red wigglers in the sip during Veg .. Weird you mentioned this. I have what i believe is an issue.

View attachment 18772251 View attachment 18772252 View attachment 18772253 View attachment 18772254

It seems to be getting better. I gave it some build a soil craft blend at the beginning of flower and have only been using water ever since.. Any help would be much appreciated.

The first two leaf picture were from 5/6 days ago.The next two from yesterday I will get an updated leaf picture once lights come on tonight.

You need to topdress bro I dodo every week I add somthing

Kelp neem tea
Coconut aloe tea
Worm teas

Epsom 1g a litre for leds 0.5 hps

Hit em with kelp never hurts look at maxi crop kelp

 

[ReservoirDog]

I don't know what to tell you. The SWICK system works, but me and Sweet Sue are possibly the only ones doing it. Good luck with whatever you come up with.

Unlike SIP, Swick does not utilize a 1 inch/3cm air gap between the bottom of the matrix (soil) and your reservoir as SIPs do even when rez is full. This aerates roots but most importantly manages and maintains a stable moisture gradient that gets wetter as you go lower down. This gradient is what plants have evolved to utilize as it is most common scenario in nature. This condition trips the plant's 'muscle memory' and causes them to create a root system much more efficient than those developed in traditional 'deluge and desert' watering conditions required in traditional container growing.

The reason why true air-gap SIPs can give you a huge plant ready to flower in 3 weeks that takes trad. containers 6-7 weeks, is because although the moisture gradients varies slightly depending on the fullness of your reservoir, compared to the flood and dry-back regime used when watering containers traditionally, SIP plants can grow every moment of every day.

When you place a time-lapse camera on a traditionally watered pot you will see that growth takes place a little while after watering, however, when dry-back begins growth stops and remains stalled until it is possible to water the soil again, in a week or so. This means that these plants are only showing growth 30-50% of the time, MAX.

A SIP planter time-lapsed grow videos reveal plants that are growing 100% of the time, ceaselessly.

There are a lot of ways to leverage this information to your benefit, but it all starts with switching to SIP growing.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I agree that bottom watering in well drained soil makes the plants happy. I think the gap between the bottom of the bag and the water level (about 2 inches) has that aeration zone. The roots go through the bags down into the water through that gap.

The real beauty of the SWICK system is the ability to move the bagged plants. I am getting kinda old, so 10 gallons of wet soil is all I want to bend over and lift. To move the bags with roots and clinging perlite, set it in a 7 gallon tub and carry the tub and bag. That helps keep the perlite mess down.

After a run I take the bag down to the soil tub, dump it, and recycle with added amendments and other goodies. I am washing and reusing bags now too. Sustainable and it’s working.

The plastic pots I am using in the Cindy run are made to water from the bottom. Once roots develop, the bottom, which holds about 10% of the soil volume for water, dries out in a day. The top of the soil stays dry, which helps kill off the little winged bugs.