yellow spotting?

[Shliite]

I have a couple of questions... First, my K2 and Sweet Warp on 41 days flower look a little unhealthy and have for a while. I figure it was because i kept the Gravity in a little too long but i thought i'd check because theres some yellow spotting, especially on the K2, that I thought was a little peculiar. I know yellowing is normal towards the end of flowering but i thought it might be a bit early and didnt expect it to look like this:










My next question is about some Bubblicious and Diesel Kush about 3 weeks in veg. They are in hempy solo cups at the moment and one has some weird discoloration on its older leaves. They have turned a light yellow and have lots of brown spots.






Also, wondering what this little bug is? and if its beneficial or harmful?





The sweet warp is a big producer but some mistakes on my first hydro run have her looking pretty unhealthy. Huge calyxs coming out at day 41. I ran bushmaster so i expect it to finish a week earlier than its supposed 8-9 weeks... so i need to consider starting my flush soon. I dont have flush agents like clearex, so i need to use just plain water. I was wondering how long its recommended to flush in a non re-circulating DWC to get best taste. It has had some bacteria issues on the roots so i thought maybe more time would be better?

 

[Kr@kEn]

Just a boxelder bug, not a problem that I know of.

I would foliar feed with something with micros in it. Check your solutions PH. Make sure it's between 5.5 and 6.

 

[MynameStitch]

KRaken those plants are rootbound as hell dude, he needs to get them out of the cups.......

They need to be in a gallon size pot........
Also how often are you feeding them and how much? What soil mixture are you in?
what ph is your run off?

 

[gmanwho]

shliite: those first pics, they almost look like calcium def, and or ph spotting. What where you feeding them & @ what PH & PPM? Any additives? Where u using a cal mag type product? What type of medium did you use? Where they there before gravity?

I believe gravity states to cut you nuts by 1/3 -1/2. Most people just run with straight water when applying gravity, or foliar feed. It could have been cause by the gravity, but it looks like calcium def to me.

best of luck, b-safe

 

[MynameStitch]

THey are having issues absorbing nutrients from them being rootbound; this does happen alot; the roots are so crowded it can't absorb them properly; get them out of the cups and into at least a 1 gallon size pot......

 

[gmanwho]

Stich, there are 2 different scenarios, you are right about the 2nd question, for sure.

B-safe

 

[Shliite]

AH!! i just wrote a very detailed response to everyone and clicked on a picture by accident and everything got erased.

Stitch-The solo cups are "hempy" style (passive hydro). In case your unfamiliar with it i'll try to explain briefly. Its 3/4 perlite and 1/4 vermiculite in a bucket/cup/anything without drainage holes. A whole is drilled 3/4"-2" (depending on size of container) up on the container thus creating a 2" reservoir at the bottom. The roots seek the water and take what they need. I have been watering the pictured plants with 750 PPM, ~6.4 pH water (i know it could be lower). Supposedly with this growing style pH isnt much of a factor. I was planning on transplanting into bigger pots soon but was unaware that those leaves were signs of them being root bound. Thanks for the help.

gmanwho- I added the Gravity about 3 weeks ago (for 5 days). I used 1 tsp/gallon with plain water and hydroguard (because i have a little root rot issue). After the gravity i went back to PBP Bloom, cal-mag, and greenfuse bloom stimulant at 770PPM, ~6.0 pH. This is lower then what i was feeding them before the gravity, but only because i'm out of PBP Bloom nutes. I consider this "easing into the flush". The medium is hydroton clay pebbles in a 3" net pot (fairly small for the size of the plants). Its a homemade non-circulating DWC bucket with two air hoses in each. The plants were having calcium deficiencies earlier in flower so that could be part of the problem. I had to go get some cal-mag, but even that didnt seem to fix all my problems.

Kr@kEn- I'm not sure i have anything with a lot of micros in it. I assume you are talking about the flowering plants and not the little ones, but correct me if im wrong. Thanks for the info on the bug.

How long should the flush be in my DWC buckets? I dont have any flushing agents like Clearex (how effective/necessary are these products?). I am at day 41 of flowering and the PPM have been reduced to under 600 (mostly because im out of nutes). I think these are both 8 week strains; the Sweet Warp might be 9. I am going to estimate that they should be ready 1 week earlier because i used Bushmaster. This means i'm 8 days away from when I predicted i should harvest. When should i start running plain water? There is a fairly good amount of hairs turning red/dark at this point already. I had one of those radio shack microscopes but my friend broke the light.

 

[gmanwho]

Hey there. I am new to the bush grav & PM myself, i always go 1/4 to 1/2 recommended,then add again if needed. So far 2 crops, noticeable improvements, no problems with this approach. Still tweaking.

How long ago did you realize the root rot settled in? this could have been the main issue.Even if your nutrients & ph where on point.

Even if it was light rot. root rot can cause very poor nutrient pickup, suffocating the roots. how can you perform on an empty stomach? Same to the plants. Even what could look like light brown rot one place, still could have a clear film all over the roots elsewhere.

Block out the light better next time, increase the circulation, and if not already, get air stones involved. The fact the the system is non-recirculation ,High temps in those cups could have been a major contributor as well. Sounds like things could get a bit swampy in there.

IMO, if you spend the money, take the time, take the risk (if applicable), why not do it right.

Sounds like you are not in the dark about your situations thou. An get that ph abit lower. Calibrate your ph meter often. one ph meter to the next ph meter can be off by as much as .3 .4 . So your 6.4 could possibly have been 6.7 -6.8, possible. Out of range.

5.6 veg, 6.0 flower, 2.5 mil of cal-mag to every gallon, every feeding works well for me. Then cut the cal-mag out at like day 35.

U said the cal mag didnt seem to take care of your problems before.

Def. in leaves 80% of the time wont disappear. The leaves are usually damaged beyond repair, unless its top growth. Top growth in some def can clear up.

i usually remove the leaf,WITHIN REASON, or cut the damaged part off of the leaf. This way i know if the problem continues to show up i did not correct the problem and take further actions. The leaf staying behind may lead you to believe there still is a problem, when in fact it could have been take care of.

BUT, in your pics, i would remove the leaves that are yellow and spotted.

BUT, i would leave the green leaves with the cal spotting. ( the leaf is still green enough to be functional) And take better note if spotting continues.

As for the flush, straight water should work you fine. Start 10 - 7 days before you think they are to finish.

Now the other thing, u did use BM, BUT, a stressed plant can go both ways, finish earlier, or finish later. So without being there to physically look at them can be a tough call.



My advice, from what you stated & pictures you shown, they look healthy enough to finish. I would start feeding ph'd water only till they finish.

And prepare better for next crop. Additives can be tricky sometimes, so be careful, very careful.

Hope this may help, Best of luck & B-safe

 

[MynameStitch]

Get the pH under control yes ph does play a role in this; you are growing hydro/soiless needs to be lower; the spotting you see is caused by pH being not stable and the plant is not being able to take in nutrients that is already there; you need to get some pH down from a hydroshop and use that so the ph stays between 5.5 to 6.3

Do you have a TDS pen?

 

[gmanwho]

Do you have a TDS pen?

Quote Shliite " After the gravity i went back to PBP Bloom, cal-mag, and greenfuse bloom stimulant at 770PPM, ~6.0 pH. "

 

[Shliite]

Thanks gman for the help. I have temps at around 85 degrees sometimes with lights on, but sometimes lower. One bucket is wrapped in foil tape to prevent light from getting in, and the other is wrapped in a black trash bag (probably less effective then the foil tape). Im going to switch over to hempy style for my next run in flowering, where light leaks wont be an issue. Its funny that even at this stage of flowering the only smell that leaks from my closet is the gross "organic" smell that comes from the reservoirs, and not the buds themselves. I'm going to change the reservoirs today to plain pHed water to start the flush. Those yellow and spotted leaves are falling off on there own but i'll take them out when i transplant to bigger pots later today.

Stitch- I know it makes complete sense that the pH is a factor in any set-up, especially hydro and soil-less mediums... its just that the innovator "hempy" stated that plants would do fine at all pH levels with this setup... and trust me skeptics have argued about it but his results speak for themselves. I will definitely start adjusting my pH before watering now... anything to keep the plants healthy (my tap is slightly alkaline at around 6.8-7.0 and hard at 130 ppm). Yes, i do have a TDS pen.

 

[MynameStitch]

If you get some pH down your all set, your water is not as hard as others and you should do fine with it as long as you keep the pH under control.

I will tell ya, i heard ya on the arguments; when Ifirst started to grow I tought the same thing I thought it was something very silly; but let me tell ya; I went out and had to get a pH pen, because I had plant problems that would not go away; I had yellowing and spotting with brown crispy leaves and it was not nutrient burn, becuse they were in a seed starter mixture; they only got so big and stopped growing......

pH and sodium played a role in this I had to get some stuff to change my pH which I was using either vinegar or lemon juice; both are not very stable; but it was somethign I wanted to test to ensure about this "pH" thing. Sure enough the ones that were just starting the affects popped right back into game and grew extremley well.

Once I started to pH adjust and ensure pH was balanced I started to get plants looking like these in the picture below.... no blemishes and even still has the 1 fingered leaves they had when they popped from there seeds

So trust me, balance out that pH a bit you won't go wrong; but ensure it's balanced a few times a day once you change it to know what changes are being made and then you won't have to keep testing it more than 2 times a day.

 

[Shliite]

K2:







Sweet Warp:

 

[MynameStitch]

Well there is where all your problems are coming from..... you got root rot dude....... you must not have been watching your water temps or the plant was not getting enough air; that is not a little bacteria dude; that is severe root rot....

You better get some serious strength h202 and get some hydroguard in your setup.....

use around 2 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of 3% h202 if you can't get the strong stuff.....

 

[Shliite]

MynameStitch Well there is where all your problems are coming from..... you got root rot dude....... you must not have been watching your water temps or the plant was not getting enough air; that is not a little bacteria dude; that is severe root rot....

You better get some serious strength h202 and get some hydroguard in your setup.....

use around 2 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of 3% h202 if you can't get the strong stuff.....

I thought you might say that once i showed you the roots... thats probably the reason my deficiencies never went away even when i seemed to be doing everything right. I have been using hydroguard from the start, and i have light blocked out of the reservoirs pretty well... but its like 85 degrees in my closet most of the time with the lights on and i cant do anything else to get that down. I didnt use any h202 because i was under the impression that it would kill all the beneficial bacteria from my "organic" nutes in the PBP lineup. Would it be a good idea to start using some H202 now that i'm flushing, thus no nutes to harm? Or would this have a negative impact on the smoothness/taste of my smoke? I am using hydroguard with my plain water right now, so i guess the same questions apply for that too, if you could answer. And finally, what would be better to use (if i should be using it at all at this point), Hydroguard or the 3% h202. I figure stacking the two wouldnt work because the h202 would kill the hydroguard... but correct me if im wrong.

Last time i looked at my roots i had considerably less discoloration; it was only at the top of the roots near the net pots, the new growth looked white and clean. I suppose it must have spread a lot when i added the gravity with plain water and molasses; i suspect it got worse mostly because the bacteria loves feeding of stuff like molasses, and was uncontrollable even with hydroguard. Anyways, this is why my next run is going to be Hempy style; much less to worry about and similar benefits from a typical hydro setup.

thx for the help

 

[MynameStitch]

Well look at it this way; it's either get rid of the root rot or it won't be used anyways; the benifical bacteria can't be worked and I am sure the root rot is killing it anyways. You gotta get a chiller or keep most of the equipment out of the growroom to try to keep temps down...... 85 is wayyyy to warm water temps need to stay below 70 but not colder than 65.... All the stuff in the world will not keep root rot away if you can't control the temps; it's like having a bacteria ni the body, but if the anti biotic does is not strong enough it's not going to kill it if the body can't fight it off.

meningococcal is a good one to point out lol.
I don't think it would harm you to smoke buds the way it is; but I can gurantee it's going to hurt the potency of the plant and your yield.

You will have to keep water temps down and use hydroguard and h202, use around 2 1/2 teaspoons of 3% h202; if you can get something stronger depending on the strength I can give you a different dose to use.

Your warm temps is the sole cause of the entire problem; by ading h202 and hydroguard it helps prevent it, but once those water temps stay warm and bacteria is breeding in there, hydroguard and h202 can only go so long, and it's also being absorbed by the plant when it absorbs the water and nutrients so less and less of it is in there day by day and eventually the bacteria is the one that wins.
Not only that warmer water temps have less oxygen; when plants can't get the o2 it starves them and they slowly die adding dead decaying material to the water which also speeds up root rot.

 

[Shliite]

i didnt say water temps were 85, thats just air temperature. And the water-chiller is not gonna happen.. it seems like you mis-read my post...

I have approximately 7 days left of DWC hydro growing left... then im going full out passive hydro, "hempy" style. I understand how root rot works and the negative effects it has on potency and yield, but i couldnt prevent it... i was just wondering whether or not its a good idea to put h202 or hydroguard in my reservoir during the flush. Currently, there is hydroguard in the reservoirs.

I don't think it would harm you to smoke buds the way it is; but I can gurantee it's going to hurt the potency of the plant and your yield.

im not sure what your saying here... because it doesnt seem like your answering the question i asked. I was pretty certain that the root rot wasnt going to cause the smoke to be harmful, but what i was asking was whether putting h202 and/or hydroguard in my reservoirs during the last week of flush would be harmful to the intention of "flushing" in general- that is, to get out all the gross tasting nutrients out of the plant's system and make it start cannabalizing itself to enhance taste and potency.

As a side question, since you brought it up... I know root rot isnt "harmful" to the smoke, but would it compromise the smoothness/taste that everyone flushes to obtain? Seeing as how theres still gross bacteria in there I was wondering if it would cause any ill effects in regards to smoothness/taste/that white ash we all look for.

 

[MynameStitch]

Oh my bad I missed that part lol
sorry about that.
Oh I see, I am not sure about that; That is one question I can't answer, because i have never tried that before nor have I heard of anyone else doing it; but I highly doubt it will cause any problems to be honest with ya. Because it's completely impossible to flush everything from a plant when you harvest so i don't think it should cause an issue; if I was in your shoes I would do it.

Well, the bacteria is in the roots; not the plant; so unless you are going to smoke the roots, there should not be any issues with taste and such