wtfn's 4000w legal medical soil food web organic grow show

[whythefnot]

I decided to fire up the other two lights today. I was able to spread all the plants out to have more room/light so I'm hoping it will speed things along a little. I also raised the temps by a couple degrees. My window unit a/c will only go up to 86, and I'm not interested in investing in an environmental controller just yet, so that's the max temp that I'm allowed this run. The other thermometer reads 84, which is a little low for 1500ppm CO2 but it'll work just fine until I can afford to round up some more equipment.

All of the cuts have been transplanted. Four of the plants were small enough for me to double them up in the 5gal pots, so that's what I did. They'll still have plenty of soil but they won't take up as much space as if I had given them each their own pot.

Excuse the exposure. I had to set it high to counter the banding effect on my phone camera. I dug out my old grow camera that never used to have any problems taking photos of a grow, even a bare hps bulb. But now it's banding even worse than my phone camera, so I'm not entirely sure what to do. I've looked into f-stop and the like, but my two cameras do not have the functionality for that, so unless something gives or I ever decide to turn my lights off it's gonna be off-color pics for a while. Sorry.

Maybe I'll use the downtime I have today to see about getting that camera set up for hps lights again...

 

[whythefnot]

Ok I took my old camera back out and played around for a little while until I remembered how to get the good photos out of it. Then I may have gone a little overboard.


Here's my new dehumidifier setup:

It drains to my vegetable garden.

Here's my finished CO2 setup (also, a comically small fan pulling through a comically large carbon filter):

This is just me having way too much time on my hands:

Again, way too much time:

This photo shows the extent of the discoloration very well. One plant still looks very sick. I checked the pH today and it was at 6 -- reasonably OK, but given that ALL of the rest of the plants are buffered comfortably at 6.7-6.9 right now that told me that something is still wrong with the biology in the soil. Since I just gave it full strength compost tea yesterday, I decided to add some more lime to force it back to the correct pH range. As I said earlier, if she doesn't come around by the time I'm ready to flower, I'll cut her up for clones for next round. Unfortunately she's really lacking stored N.


Anyway, I'm feeling pretty good about it...Let me know what you think!

 

[whythefnot]

The plants have really taken to the CO2 the past few days. When I first hooked it all up, if I was in the room the burner would never come on. Now, even when I'm breathing hard in there it still drops about 2ppm/min, and the burner usually comes on at some point while I'm in there for 10-20min or so. They're growing super fast too.
I gave them 3 hrs dark today. I'm thinking about dropping their light schedule by 2hrs every day for the next few days until they're at 12/12. Anyone here ever tried this?

 

[whythefnot]

I noticed a few of the plants were looking a little acidic late last night, so I started another 5gal batch of tea. They didn't look too much worse this morning, and their pH was reading a little higher (low 6's instead of high 5's) so I'm running an experiment.

Using a bacterial brew I'm treating two larger plants that have been affected very similarly and have had similar trajectories since the transplant. Both look very bad now.

One plant is being treated with about 64oz bacterial compost tea only. So far this seems to be raising pH a little.

The other plant got 32oz H2O2 @3.5% plus 32oz pHed (~7.1) water. Then after about 20 minutes, once the H2O2 settles, I hit it with 32oz compost tea. In a few minutes I'll use another 32oz compost tea.


Whichever method works faster is the one I'll use for the remaining yellow plants. I definitely have some sort of infection in the soil, and it seems to be slowly spreading with waterings.

 

[whythefnot]

Ouch! My freaking electric bill from this month is over $700. That really hurts right now, especially knowing that it's gonna come back around next month.

 

[whythefnot]

I'm going to start flowering tomorrow. I can't afford to wait any longer, unfortunately. I think I have the reins on the pH issue. Here's my best assessment of what's going on after a few days of hardcore sleuthing:

1. I flooded the room with the plants on the floor very early on, causing a massive overwatering of very young clones, giving a ripe anaerobic environment for pathogens.
2. The plants were fed a raunchy batch of compost tea, introducing any number of unknown pathogens right at transplant. [before they had a chance to dry out 100% from the flood]
3. The plants were transferred into soil that hadn't been thoroughly cooked since the latest addition of alfalfa meal, happy frog, seabird guano and kelp tea.
4. I was having a/c issues during that time as well. The temperatures hit 92-93 on a few occasions [the following is purely speculation] allowing a pythium-like pathogen to take hold in the soil (fairly uncommon in soil compared to hydro systems). I've dealt with pythium before in aero so I know the symptoms well unfortunately.
5. During the a/c troubles I was sort of in crisis mode, treating with everything under the sun that can raise the pH aside from wood ashes (having trouble rounding up the wood, unsure about burn laws in my area). Around the same time I installed the new a/c, things started straightening out. I'm still not sure if that's due to the dolomite lime, the hydrated lime, the potassium hydroxide, the compost tea, or the environmental adjustments. I've been attributing it to the lime, specifically the hydrated lime, but in trying to replicate that this week I've had zero success. The soil pH will rise to an acceptable range for 6 - 12 hrs, then plummet even lower than they were before, as though I was simply feeding the pathogen.
6. The plants that were affected worst were treated as experiments. I would add this or that, seeing if I noticed any improvement. The soil never dried out. They also never recovered. But the bigger issue is that every time I watered the pathogen spread a little. The plants closest to the experiments would soak up a little of the runoff and thus are the very first of the healthy plants to show symptoms again as the problem returns.
7. The return visit of the pH problem is not nearly as severe as the the first round. The pH seems to be settling out around 5.8 - 6.2 in most of the plants, rather than 5.0 - 5.5 like before. I can only attribute this to the maturation of soil decomposition. Less soil violence means fewer free hydrogen ions being kicked out. ... ... ... I guess.
8. The return of the symptoms came roughly a week after they subsided last, with zero waterings in between. The plants are not quite ready for their next watering, but will be in the next day or two. It also coincided with the day I decided to raise my temps all the way up (~86-88*).


So I turned my A/C down a few hours ago, hoping to inhibit any anaerobic growth that's still fluorishing in my super soil. I've tried various things on individual plants with mixed results.

1. Light flush with very heavy lime solution only. Seems to have adjusted the pH correctly at this point, although the plant does not seem to like the bath.
2. Very heavy dose of pH up (potassium hydroxide). Did not seem to do anything at all.
3. Very heavy dose of dissolved pelletized dolomite lime. Seemed to have a very small effect for a few hours, but nothing lasting.
3. H2O2 to kill most of the biology, then compost tea to replace it. It seemed to work very well for a while, but after giving it a full 24 hours it had zero lasting effect except really stressing the plant out. It looks terrible, although it's the really bad one pictured a few posts back.
4. Compost tea only. I've had mixed results with this throughout the last few weeks but this really seems to have worked on at least one of the plants. I'm trying it out on another plant as well to see if it makes the problem better or worse, since I've had mixed results with this method.
5. Lime/compost tea. For some weird reason, this seems to have less of an effect than either of these used independently. I'll stick with just one or the other for now.


I haven't had much luck at all with any of these techniques except using well-made compost tea only, and there I've had only mixed results. I'm worried that promoting decomposition in the super soil may unleash a scourge of hydrogen ions on my poor plants, causing them to spiral further down the pH rabbit hole.


I'm really not sure what steps to take next, other than continue to observe and report. Any suggestions?

 

[whythefnot]

Ok, I've been around the room checking and re-checking and it looks like they've all settled around 6.5. Maybe I won't see any extra damage tomorrow. It hasn't been very severe, only severely unsettling. If I don't make this harvest we're gonna be forced to move back to the east coast. We just don't have the financial prospects to stay otherwise. So it's immensely important to us that this goes right. Honestly that's why I wanted to run super soil, because it makes getting high quality buds practically fool-proof. I guess I'm just a big enough fool to screw it up.

Anyway, I'm not sure what to make of the stable pH reading I just got. I left the probe in for quite a while just to be sure, but the pots are starting to dry out. I'm not sure how much that affects the reading, but in the instructions it says to mix water into the sample until it's like mud. I would imagine leaving the probe in for a while (huh-huh-huh-huh) would still give a pretty accurate reading, but like everything else today, I'm really just not sure.


The tentative plan now is to let the pots dry out completely and then water with a mild-strength hydrated lime solution followed by a mid to high strength compost tea.

 

[whythefnot]

This morning it seems as if all the newest growth is uniformly green. The pH is back in line in almost every pot. I do have one wilting plant tho, maybe I broke the tap root when I was checking pH, IDK. I set it off to the side to try to recover. In 2 hours the lights are going off for 12. Wish me luck.

 

[whythefnot]

This morning at lights off, for posterity.

 

[whythefnot]

The wilted plant is almost certainly not going to pull through. After 12 hrs of dark she had only drooped more. This is the second plant I've lost this way. I cut her up for clones this evening while I watched the Dexter series finale, but I left a little bit of foliage on the stalk to see if she can't regrow her root system.
I've been losing them left and right the past few weeks mostly due to root rot from that initial overwatering, but it's ok. I have plenty of vegetation to fill that space up even if I lost a few more. I'm always bad about overcrowding my buds anyway. Besides, it's my first indoor grow in about 3 years, and my first indoor soil grow in 4 or 5. New room, new soil, I'll let a few accidents slide without beating myself up over it. At this point it seems like my mistakes are all behind me and I can cruise through the rest of this grow on autopilot. Now if I can just keep the lights on...

 

[morganic grower]

hope flowering goes well brother

 

[whythefnot]

Thanks man. I know it seems like I need all the help I can get from watching this journal lol, but things seem to be pretty well on autopilot at this point. I tend to exaggerate and over-articulate my negative plant issues -- the opposite of what most people on grow forums are doing . The pH has settled down in all but the last 2 - 3 pots. Also, my hallway is getting really stinky all of a sudden!
I'll get that carbon filter rigged up to a worthy fan in the next few days.

 

[whythefnot]

Yeeaaaahhh buddy! Lookin goo - oood up in nerr! Stretchy stretch time

They still haven't sucked up all the water from the transplant/ph adjustment. They're very close to dry now but not fully dried out. I have a batch of compost tea that's getting a little old. I've added a little molasses to keep it brewing, but I'll probably throw it on the garden outside instead of my precious plants just to be safe. I'd water my plants with it tonight, but I'm trying to 'reset' my soil, and overwatering is the last thing I need right now. They'll always bear the scars of the pH drop they suffered for 5 or 6 days, so the pictures might not be the prettiest. But everything seems to be settled down now so flowering should go just peachy. Whatever minor deficiencies they had should be old news by the time buds set in.

mmm-mmm I can't wait to see those big ol' buds!!

 

[raiderman]

lookin good bro,Do you use a moisture meter or do you jus go by weight of the pot?if not a hydro-farm meters are great, on a scale of 1-10 I water mine on the 3 when near dry,keeps it timed in .peace.

 

[raiderman]

i purchased a stealth ro-100 by pure glacier 175.00 ,3-way system,quality bottle water every run.worth every penny..,peace.

 

[whythefnot]

Well, since I haven't had to water them at all yet, neither. But yes, I go by the weight of the pot, or the general appearance of the plant if I'm lucky enough to catch it that late. Next round, I'm going to invest in a $400 set of blu mats so it'll really put my grow on autopilot.

Right now I'm just using a $10 3/8" inline carbon water filter for the water coming into the room. I never posted pics of it, but it's just a small little thing. I'm completely strapped, so I'm in no position to buy more equipment, especially when tap water works just fine. If I get desperate, I have a nice filter on the kitchen sink that I could possibly steal for the room, but I'll probably just wait until I have some money and invest in a nicer filter. I don't know if I want to go full RO. If I was running hydro, I'd do it for sure, but I've heard a lot of mixed messages about whether to run RO in soil. Maybe somebody here can influence me one way or another.

 

[raiderman]

I hear ya ,i'm strapped down myself ,lol,i don't even use a carbon scrubber atm..whatever worx that's wat i'd go with.

 

[whythefnot]

I'm going to be doing photo updates weekly. I know it hasn't been a week yet, but I just can't keep it in my pants this morning!

This photo was from last night at lights on. (day 5)

Also, I extracted the larger blower out of my old portable a/c unit to save me a couple bucks on a fan. I'd estimate it at about 400 - 500 cfm. I hooked it up to the carbon filter last night and hung it from the low part of the ceiling, blowing up. There wasn't much smell before, but now the room seems odorless (can't smell the dirt or compost tea anymore).

 

[whythefnot]

Here's what I have for next round. I think it's about 40 cuts. I've only ever successfully aero cloned, so the peat pellets are new to me. I'm expecting to lose a few (never had 100% success with cloning) so I took some extras. I'm seriously considering only running 24 plants next time, just to be on the safe side with my doctor's rec. I still haven't figured out how all that works -- everybody I talk to tells me something vastly different about legality and growing 99 plants and the enhanced prescription.
Anyway, the big ones in the front were taken last Sunday (5 days ago) from the plant that died unexpectedly. The rest were taken this morning from lower branches that I trimmed to improve yield (or reduce popcorn, however you see it).

Edit: in this photo you can really see the remaining signs of deficiency that are prominent throughout the garden. The group shots don't show it too well but these cuts were taken right at the peak of the pH issues. It's pretty easy to spot the Mg deficiency, and maybe the P deficiency too. Those are the first signs of pH drop in my experience.

Since I mentioned it, raider, I snapped a photo of my inline water filter. 10 bucks at the local hydro store.

Here's my rigged up fan and carbon filter. No need for anything bigger this run. I may leave it like this for a few runs depending on how well it works this way.

This was the easiest thing to do out of all these updates, but it's what I'm proudest of. Since the grow is upstairs, brewing tea in a 5gal bucket on the floor made my entire house sound like it was rumbling. It was pretty quiet in the room but the bucket's central location in the house caused the floor to vibrate and the sound to amplify to the extreme. Now it's suspended from the ceiling and from downstairs I can't hear it AT. ALL. Now I'll be able to fall asleep tonight, good deal.

Edit: you can still definitely hear it from the kitchen but it's at about 1/10 volume compared to how it was before.

 

[raiderman]

lookin good bruh, everything lookin top,cool setup,i like it .peace.