WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[mrwags]

Let's put things into a perspective we can see...

Feminized plants and flowers,, from the following breeders:

Arjan's Ultra Haze #2 [Greenhouse Seeds]

Doctor [Greenhouse Seeds]

Super Silver Haze [Greenhouse Seeds]

NL [RQS]

Critical [HQS]

Royal Automatic [RQS]

S1 Mix (kerbdog) ,, eekamouse or old-boy blue

We didnt see ANY SEEDS in those samples,, so less hatin,, and get ya game up players,, (especially the little fassios! ),, watch as we wipe out a scene full of say-sos !!!

Wohh~! mind out or there might be murky pollen in ya shells soon!

NOTE: feminized seeds are NO use for the future! Quick sow, grow, n smoke material only!

Peace n flowers to the ppl keeping it real!

Otherwise this is a kind of old (yawn),, but otherwise still interesting discussion.. just a pity more folks haven't grown modern feminized seed genetics (involving CS inhibition),, rather than basing opinion on old and out-dated "rodalization methods" (that's what Soma called it right) to make feminized seeds from... which were BS!

Hope this helps

I GOT SOME I GOT SOME





And this Female Junk is even being falsely used in magazine being passed off as Weed. The shame in some people.




Sorry Just Had To
Mr.Wags

 

[Guest423]

Excellent



Yes we agree

However,, we still don't fully dig feminized seed packs,,, mostly because they don't contain MALE plants,, which are the future of cannabis

The more we grow the more and more we value male plants ... and feminized lines don't offer them.

Then don't buy feminized seed packs lol, if you want males there would be no point in even looking at feminized seeds. Get the lines you like and do some open pollinating and keep your own breeding stock, I don't know why everyone is so dependent on everyone else when they can just step their own game up.

I'd personally never order a feminized seed pack, breeders these days love the market for feminized seeds because they are so easy to make and don't take up much space, instead of a bunch of males they can just spray 1 plant.

I'm much more interested in landrace lines, trying to preserve some of the oldies, recreate some oldies, or making something exciting.

Everyone has a choice what they want to make or what they want to buy it isn't the end of the world. Everyone has their own interests or motives, some peeps want all females, some like hybrids, some like preserving, ect.

 

[DocLeaf]

Positive words on the breeding tip Our games up and out there

Then don't buy feminized seed packs lol

We don't,, haven't bought ANY seeds since 2001! lmfao

Breeders / wholesalers keep sending these female seeds for us to test,, (because we give honest feedback,, if it's shit we say so! like Dina Fem. Road Runner,, that was a bag of w***). Reality is still the lowdown these ends.

Anyhow, to not sow seeds ,, that breeders send out to us,, would be an insult (to them not us).. besides the same sources often send us regular breeding stocks to breed with.. so it's a question of give n take,, like anything.

To reiterate,, feminized seeds can be useful,, just not that useful to us these ends ... other than fodder to clone n smoke.

Those commercial cats,, hear us,, they love feminized seed stocks,, cant get nuff of them.. helps them from thinking about selection and stuff that might hurt their headz!

Don't knock even a bad-thing till you ****ing tried it kids!

"Playing in apple gardens, but dont know about Jack" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADayC0-lOYk

"Still cant tell,, if it's a girl or a man!" hehe

Smokey like a dragon in his cave,, et al. .. done!

One love

 

[JackTheGrower]

Remember that I too am a hack,

We are all Hacks.. There are flaws in everyone.

Been reading grow sites over 10 years now. I will be attempting to create Feminized seeds and this thread is excellent.

If I added all my posts from everywhere it would be close to 20,000 <Squack!>

LOL

I am learning from this thread.

 

[Stdane]

We are all Hacks.. There are flaws in everyone.

Been reading grow sites over 10 years now. I will be attempting to create Feminized seeds and this thread is excellent.

If I added all my posts from everywhere it would be close to 20,000 <Squack!>

LOL

I am learning from this thread.

You said it Jack,I'm learning a great deal from this thread too and I couldn't give a rat's ass about postcount I have or haven't here, lolol
Knowledge is everything...

 

[JackTheGrower]

How do you guys feel about doubled haploid lines? Is the sky falling?

leaf texture is thick and rough isn't it? Perhaps there might be some interesting functioning for this but if it requires mirroring of genes I was thinking it is something that would be limited to evolve. It would be all down Hill ( pun ) from there?

It would give rise to Patents once the genetic line is complete.

What do I win?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Well, you know, I hate to quote the wiki, but I'm not a scientist so I will anyways...

The ability to produce homozygous lines after a single round recombination saves a lot of time for the plant breeders. Studies conclude that random DH’s are comparable to the selected lines in pedigree inbreeding.[16] The other advantages include development of large number of homozygous lines, efficient genetic analysis and development of markers for useful traits in much less time. More specific benefits include the possibility of seed propagation as an alternative to vegetative multiplication in ornamentals, and in species such as trees in which long life cycles and inbreeding depression preclude traditional breeding methods, doubled haploidy provides new alternatives.

Thanks for your honesty, Tom.

I'll bet that there are a good number of other breeders out there already who use S1's as an important step in their breeding programs while companies like Monsanto probably depend on DH chromosome doubling.

This what i was thinking. Sure we need to have the Feminized genetics to be one that doesn't have both sexes expressed and the offspring need to be tested but I am impressed by the crossing a Male Kush variety with a Feminized "The Doctor" plant.
If I had to develop the two lines and then cross well that sort of R&D is hard to do without a large population of both.

I am seeing a Feminized seed as a way of distributing one generation in a line. Just as we keep a clone of a female or male going a feminized seed is that same idea in seed form.

Does that sound solid?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

What do I win?

Pack of GH fem trainwreck

 

[Cinderella99]

Does that sound solid?

I think so, but the S1 has more variation than a mother clone. Hopefully, when these S1's are created, there is also some strong selection being done-- so again depends on which breeders S1's, right? I mean, I like to think the Fem GH Lemon Haze I have was an S1 of a 1 out of a 1000 mom lol

I agree that this is a great thread-- thanks for keeping it on track, hoosier

Yea, it would seem that if plants have certain female/male hormones that trigger pheno expression that they would be carried over to the S1 generation, but not necessarily altered/increased in that S1 generation-- the S1 genes could dictate normal hormone levels... If a chosen female's chromosomes are doubled in some sort of DH treatment by Monsanto, wouldn't expect any more progesterone or whatever plant hormone to appear in progeny in excess, right? I mean, none of us like to f*ck with female hormones, do we? lol

 

[JackTheGrower]

Feminized seeds are an outdoor guerilla growers dream come true, no need to keep a bunch of moms and a shitload of clones pumping out when you can just germinate some seed and start them inside for a few weeks and put them out, or just go straight out with seed if you don't have indoor space. You also don't need to worry about doing twice the amount of work just to cull half your plants that are males, you don't need to worry about early males pollinating your plots.

I personally like feminized crosses more then S1's, taking 2 clone only strains or 2 keeper cuts from a line and reversing one making a hybrid, a hybrid you couldn't make any other way because the strains are clone only or the "one" in a line. I've grown alot of feminized hybrids I've made of my own for mainly outdoors and have had zero hermies. It's all in the plant that your reversing, if you choose wisely you'll have great results, if you do a piss poor selection with a clone that has alot of hermie traits good chance they'll be passed on.

Sometimes the S1's from the plant reversed end up better then the original clone used, sometimes you get restored vigor, bigger yeild, better quality, ect.

There's definitely a need to keep landrace strains goin and making sure male/female lines are still healthy and plentiful, But there's also great use for selfing, not only just for growing but also lookin into your lines. Everything has it's place in the community IMO.

Yeah and those growing SCROG ..

They are useful.

Sometimes something unexpected happens too such as DreadHeads.. ( long Foxtails for buds )

I am interested.. I crossed a Feminized plant with a Male of another and the spread of traits was impressive. There were 4 different females each having different qualities than the others. From Musky Kush to Juicy Fruit Gum.

I am liking the treating plants respectfully especially the ones we breed. I feel giving them a happy life is good breeders Karma..

 

[JackTheGrower]

I think so, but the S1 has more variation than a mother clone. Hopefully, when these S1's are created, there is also some strong selection being done-- so again depends on which breeders S1's, right? I mean, I like to think the Fem GH Lemon Haze I have was an S1 of a 1 out of a 1000 mom lol

I agree that this is a great thread-- thanks for keeping it on track, hoosier

I see that with this first attempt at breeding here. I'm feeling lucky that I have two plants in the box re-veging, hopefully, they are different enough to become separate lines.

Thanks to everyone breeding! It was pleasant to invest a single grow to obtain nice seeds of my own here.
I look forward to more crosses. It takes time!

Edit: I mean to say that there are a spread of traits I didn't see in either parent and then traits I did.

 

[Cinderella99]

...

I think having a grasp of what mechanisms that do indeed control all actions of a living plant are essential to clearly visualizing the whole concept.
The genetic map...or maybe a better term the genetic grab bag, has been predetermined by the paternal and maternal, and it is all the plant has to work with. It can shake numerous different variations, but all will be within what the genetic grab bag, that was instilled by the parents, gives the plant to work with. It can only express itself with what genes it has been given. The only time a change takes place in that, is during a mutation, but that is another discussion.

What does control what the genes show us are hormones, or more precisely phytohormones. There are loads of papers to read concerning hormonal effects on plants, and how they are used to manipulate nearly all of the plants actions.
This piece is one of the easier to follow...

....

I would suggest trying to get a full understanding of auxins and the hormones of the plant, and you will have a clearer picture of what is actually happening, and why it happened, when we use forced pollen.

I hope I'm not one of these parrots that you are referring to. I can see that you have a lot of passion for the topic and you really express yourself well, but I have a sincere question:

Are you suggesting that (after we achieve a full understanding of all plant hormones and are familiar with each one) that these hormone levels are somehow altered or increased in S1 progeny?

Thanks in advance for your answer

 

[JackTheGrower]

Pack of GH fem trainwreck

Was this line prone to problems? I missed the whole trainwreck thing.

I'm wanting to be a Gardener who develops a business so it look like I should never get so large that proper R&D isn't done..

I hope I can craft a line that people enjoy and that to get the "real thing" they will want to come to me!

 

[englishrick]

haploids and doubble haploides can be obtained from male or female gramatic cells,,,,

parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some species but the term is sometimes used inaccurately to describe reproduction modes in hermaphroditic species which can reproduce by themselves because they contain reproductive organs of both sexes...





ps.............whos in favor of Disruptive selection??

 

[Cinderella99]

haploids and doubble haploides can be obtained from male or female gramatic cells,,,,

parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some species but the term is sometimes used inaccurately to describe reproduction modes in hermaphroditic species which can reproduce by themselves because they contain reproductive organs of both sexes...





ps.............whos in favor of Disruptive selection??

Right on...I agree that, despite what some breeders may tell you, breeding a fine cannabis line does not necessarily involve mysterious voodoo, stars aligning in the proper way and multi million dollar, scientifically cutting edge in vitro injection machines....If you are intelligent and dedicated and have the time and space....

Having said that, I am also a hack who has not to this day developed any sort of consistent special line....And, I'm fully aware that quality, such as demonstrated in Tom Hill's deepchunk, takes years and years of trial and effort and selfless dedication...Keep the dream alive, brother!

 

[englishrick]

hay cindy,,,you ever here of "wide crossing" for obtaining haploid plants??

 

[Texicannibus]

Weed World Issue 86,

Interview with Simon of Serious Seeds.

Question: Many people may be disappointed by the choice to also do female seeds. Is making feminized seeds not a break with Serious' policy, Simon?

Answer:
" Well its was never really our policy not to do feminized seeds! Most of the time, people fear the unknown, or are against things wich are unnatural. Although, what is still natural in our world? Wearing clothes isn't natural, cooking food or flying to other continents isnt natural. Taking antibiotics is not natural. Much of what we see as normal is just what we are used to and wich we call 'normal' but you could hardly call it 'natural'. I feel that the same applies to feminized seeds.

If you do feminized seeds the right way, then the plants from those seeds should be good. This means; you should not get plants with strange leaf patterns or wierd growth patterns. You should not get many hemaphrodites and futhermore, cloning of those plants should be just as easy as from plants grown from regular seeds. All of those things point to bad techniques in making feminized seeds.

We have been fine tuning the techniques of altering the sex of cannabis for a couple of years now. As always, this started out of interest; about 10 years ago I read an article in the Agricultural library in Wageningen about influencing the sex in cannabis with chemical treatments. This Dutch university still does alot of research about growing Cannabis as a crop for Dutch farmers, not to grow weed but fibre mostly.

In the summer of 2009 we heard on the radio that the local police discovered (from a helicopter) an enormous field filled with cannabis plants. They said that the estimated value was over 5 million euros. Immidiately, the police cut the plants down. The next day, I heard on the radio that this field belonged to the Agricultural university and that the police had made a big mistake. It was no illegal field of ganja growers trying to get rich quick. The plants in fact, had low concentration of THC, and were being used to grow cannabis fibre of very little value.

However, there is a point to all of this. First of all cannabis is a valuable plant for more reasons than just sinsimilla, or just for seeds or fibre. It is infact the number 1 plant on this planet. Why? BEcause no other plant we know has so many different uses for people as our beloved cannabis. Ben Dronkers from Sensi Seeds has for many years offered a reward of 50.000 euro's for whoever can show a plant with more valuable uses than cannabis. Nobody so far has claimed the award, because a more versatile plant doesn't exist. Secondly because of its multiple uses, legitimate researchers still carry out a lot of research about 'our' plant, and so they have now found how we can influence sexual expression in the plants. With that knowledge we can now make female seeds. The present cannabis market shows this like never before"

Just thought this might be helpful.

 

[englishrick]

Ben Dronkers from Sensi Seeds has for many years offered a reward of 50.000 euro's for whoever can show a plant with more valuable uses than cannabis. Nobody so far has claimed the award, .

is he is talking about an indervidual or is he talking about the cannabaceae family??,,,,,because the cannabaceae is only a small family!!,,,,,an i can show dronker some other familys that are way more valuble to humans than the cannabacea,,, "VALUABLE" being the key word here,,,,. geez half the world lives of rice,,,,Hemp (Cannabis) and hop (Humulus) are the only economically important species in the whole cannabaceae family.


it sounds like something my 14year old sister would say,,,,"il give you a million pound if you prove me wrong",,,,,,whatever sis,,,put a grand on the table or shut your face!!

 

[Texicannibus]

Englishrick by the sounds of it to me the terms used in the challenge are to vague and to subjective open to personal interpretation. Since I assume he gets to define what 'valuable uses' is.

 

[englishrick]

imho,,,i think he was searching for the word versatile not valuable,,,,and when he asks for a single plant ,,i meane it just make no sence,,,i think hes minced his words a lil,,,but lets not ragg on him for that,,its just a small mistake,,,1 of many,,,we still love him!!