WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[hoosierdaddy]

That makes absolutely "NO" sense at all !

It does make sense, actually. The problem is that you didn't understand what he was conveying.
I got right off what his analogy was, although I'm sure he could have found a better one to use..but why? It would just be misunderstood by some, which is evident by your not getting the meaning of his analogy. So why waste a lot of effort on those who just don't seem to get it?
Just like this issue, there are those who don't and won't get it. Who really cares about them...it is the other thousands of folks who may parse through this. Bad info and voodoo logic needs to be gone, or at the very least challenged, if our community is ever going to gain any mainstream respect.

We could talk Monsanto, but it has fuck all to do with this conversation. But I could understand that those who don't have a full grasp of the thing could think it so. Hell, many are thinking things happen just because they think they happen, or because some reckless asshole puts together a piece of shit book, (that misleads young growers, and is the root of this discussion to begin with), says it's so.

 

[Dalaihempy]

HEMPY- From what I see is seed companies are only offering more Femanized seeds these days because it seems they don't want to sell their pure lines for other breeders to get their hands on, that and all the one and done growers want female plants and not males.

Me personally I'd never order anything Fem'd, If I wanted any Fem'd seeds I'd just make them myself. I think seed companies should offer both, standard and fem'd, you'd have complete control of the market going either way, you'd be supplying the people that like pure lines that want to preserve, and you'd be supplying the people that are one and done.

Hiya mate well since i loged in to the on line community what i relised was few people offered any real original lines lets be point blank here how many really breed now select test work a line 5 or so generations and then offer it to market or even offer pure true breeding lines like we grew in the old days were are the things we took for granted back in the 70s and 80s we grew.

A lot of company's are selling fem seeds because they don't hold the parent line to that line and i mean how hard is it to select a female from a small number and make fem seeds not hard at all but to breed a line from 2 different plants is work and there lies the difference.

Lets look at Spain from what i read and hear its mostly a fem seed market look at the seed market 5 years ago hardly any fem seeds look at it now most are offering fem seeds.

I also feel really bad for the people that plant standard seed outdoors, they have to dig twice as many holes, take care of twice as many plants 3/4 of the season, just to pull half of them come flowering time when they show sex.

One thing everyone has to remember, if there wasn't a market for Fem'd seeds the seed companies wouldn't be making and selling them. They are gonna put out what sells. It's becoming a trendy thing, shit 6-7 yrs ago when I used to order seeds the only company offereing Fem stock was Female Seed Company. Now almost every company is atleast dabbling in it. If people want them to stop then quit buying them.

Growing out doors or in mate is the same sexing plants is only one part of it yes sure you have to pull males but then look at it like this you can also make seeds for your self you also have the option of running clones out doors you then know what your going to get at harvest.

People with limited options will get what they can some lines that were once offered as reg seeds are only offered as fem seeds now people that liked that given line will get the fem seeds its also about options.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Wow looks like some of you could use a HUG

I do thank you guys for this discussion, I'm starting a small to medium breeding program using the best males of reg seeds, and the females I have just been trying to pick the stable ones I like. Some are from fem seed, some reg. And some I get as a cut so I have no clue... The one's that have hermied I just kicked that plant out of my gene pool. Lot's of knowledge on this site I love it! Peace The mule

Welcome..

I am guessing Inter-sex expression is something of a normal genetic option for Cannabis.
We may have qualities we want in a line and may have to learn to breed out the Inter-Sex expression.

I was thinking that "no cannabis line if free form Inter-Sex relatives."

So if none are exempt then breeding is how we do it..

 

[Dalaihempy]

Well I've had about enough of this reoccurring thread for today.

What a bunch of horse shit. Deja vu. I see we are once again at the point of this conversation where the opposition -being thoroughly spanked- and realizing that they never really had any ammo to begin with, resorts to a bunch of diversionary tactics. Enter political babble, a long string of off-topic links, and desperate attempts to go full-on scare tactic.

For those who are reading this thread in an attempt to actually learn something, please do not be confused by this crap. I am sure you've seen such malarkey on the evening news before and should be well versed in tuning it out.

You have Kopite, Hyb, Sam Skunkman, Chimera, Rob Clarke, CharlesX, etc, etc, etc, many well respected folk have used this tool and/or gone on record as to its worth.

You will never meet a group of guys that cares more about cannabis than these folks. They care enough to seek out knowledge of it offline, many have given much of their lives to it - which is much more than most of you can say. They disagree often but in this matter they have always been in accord with each other.

Lol, but you guys know better, right? Amusing.

It's a valuable tool that is being heavily abused today, yes. I suppose if folks started dropping dead from shoving monkey wrenches up their asses you guys would be on a rampage to ban that tool as well? Wise-up. -T

Come on tom to make female seeds that will not express males or hermis you need true female plants which apparently is not as easy as i even thort to find in a given line sam him self has sed he has only 1 true female plant.

Female seeds are not perfect and the need for a male is more impotent in sexual reproduction than just pollen that he gives to the female and science has proven that.

I like chim and i don't understand why he or others did not go threw with the clone in an egg or what ever it was called instead of this fem seed craze i bet if you gave the people that do want female only plants the option they would of picket that over fem seeds having every clone embryo producing the same exact genetic copy of the mum it came from that the breeder had selected and not having hermies or males showing up that you could breed with is in my vue the option every one should of gone with why did they not easy they would rather spray a female turn it to a male and make shit loads of money with little effert or regards to the damage it could and will do to what genetics are left out there..

 

[stagger lee]

Robert Connell Clarke Marijuana Botany

There are 2 basic theories about how sex is determined in cannabis. The epigamic(nongenetic) and the alternative theory explained by the sexual inheritance (genetic).

It seems that we must incorporate both theories to come to a workable understanding of sexual expression in cannabis.


The most logical accommodation is to consider the initial sexual charactoristics of cannabis(inherited genetics). Although the intial sexual form is determined the final production of floral organs(sexual outcome) is influenced by other genes and by environmental conditions which may override the expression of the inherited sexual type. The effect of the environment can change the chemical makeup of the plant.

 

[freefields]

Well I've had about enough of this reoccurring thread for today.

What a bunch of horse shit. Deja vu. I see we are once again at the point of this conversation where the opposition -being thoroughly spanked- and realizing that they never really had any ammo to begin with, resorts to a bunch of diversionary tactics. Enter political babble, a long string of off-topic links, and desperate attempts to go full-on scare tactic.

For those who are reading this thread in an attempt to actually learn something, please do not be confused by this crap. I am sure you've seen such malarkey on the evening news before and should be well versed in tuning it out.

You have Kopite, Hyb, Sam Skunkman, Chimera, Rob Clarke, CharlesX, etc, etc, etc, many well respected folk have used this tool and/or gone on record as to its worth.

You will never meet a group of guys that cares more about cannabis than these folks. They care enough to seek out knowledge of it offline, many have given much of their lives to it - which is much more than most of you can say. They disagree often but in this matter they have always been in accord with each other.

Lol, but you guys know better, right? Amusing.

It's a valuable tool that is being heavily abused today, yes. I suppose if folks started dropping dead from shoving monkey wrenches up their asses you guys would be on a rampage to ban that tool as well? Wise-up. -T

I'm with Tom on this. All the people arguing to the contrary are just making themselves look foolish.

 

[Tom Hill]

Hempy, I don't give two shits about female seeds bro, sincerely. The techniques values imo lay way outside of whether or not it produces all females. If your only gripe is that all plants don't come out female then that is as weak as can be imo. If they called them something else, would you have no problem with the technique then? Because I hate the term "female seeds" too, it has caused unrealistic expectations in folks who are a bit lacking in a decent understanding of genetics.

I would like to see where cannabis science has proven the need for a male? Link me up buddy, here's your chance to actually post a link that is on topic, lol.

Artificial seeds were a flop because they couldn't pull it off well enough. I agree it would be a good thing though, I have no problem with advancements in the science of cannabis - outside of GMO crap.

Stagger, and so what? If you only came in here saying that, then you and I and many others would have no problem. However, you took all that to mean something it didn't. You put two and two together and came up with like 599.

 

[freefields]

Hi Tom. Am I right in thinking that no-one has been able to prove that there are desirable genes carried solely by the Y chromosone?

 

[Tom Hill]

That's right, it's a "feeling" that some have regarding cannabis, as far as I know.

 

[freefields]

So the Y chromosone, according to that feeling would serve no purpose and would appear to be somewhat 'novel'?

Thinking outside the box a little, with modern methods of reversing females to product pollen, there would appear to be all kinds of new breeding opportunities opened up.

Shame the people who have been the early adopters of this technology have been interested in profit above all else and have used it to produce crappy seedlines.

Don't hate on the technology, hate on the money whores who used and abused it!

 

[Tom Hill]

^^^ Hey I like this guy, lol.

 

[freefields]

If everything good in the genes of cannabis can be found within the X chromosone then I can see little need for the Y chromosone.

Here's a poser, if you have a clone that you wish to preserve in seedform and you made S1s of, what would be the best way to head towards stabilisation for a particular group of traits? To take pollen from the original mother and apply it to one of the S1s? That would seem, from my semi uninformed view to be a quick step to stabilising the traits you saw expressed in the chosen S1 specimen n'est pa?

 

[Tom Hill]

If the original mother bred true for this group of traits, then you are done at the S1. If she did not, then selfing S1's (repeat w/S2's if necessary, etc) that fit the goal would be most efficient. This will fix traits almost 3times more rapidly than M/F breeding, therein lies a major value imo. NO extra bonus points are given for taking 3times longer to get where we are going - we're not cooking a tritip here.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hempy, I don't give two shits about female seeds bro, sincerely. The techniques values imo lay way outside of whether or not it produces all females. If your only gripe is that all plants don't come out female then that is as weak as can be imo. If they called them something else, would you have no problem with the technique then? Because I hate the term "female seeds" too, it has caused unrealistic expectations in folks who are a bit lacking of a decent understanding of genetics.

Tom look at history mate with all the fuck ups man has done to nature they also thort they were on to a great thing like DDT(from its trivial name, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane) is one of the most well-known synthetic pesticides. It is a chemical with a long, unique, and controversial history.

First synthesized in 1874, DDT's insecticidal properties were not discovered until 1939, and it was used with great success in the second half of World War II to control malaria and typhus among civilians and troops.

After the war, DDT was used as an agricultural insecticide, and soon its production and use skyrocketed.

In 1962, American biologist Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring. The book cataloged the environmental impacts of indiscriminate DDT use in the US and questioned the logic of releasing large amounts of chemicals into the environment without fully understanding their effects on the environment or human health. The book suggested that DDT and other pesticides cause cancer and that their agricultural use was a threat to wildlife, particularly birds. Its publication was a signature event in the birth of the environmental movement, It produced a large public outcry that led to a 1972 ban in the US.[4] DDT was subsequently banned for agricultural use worldwide under the Stockholm Convention, but limited, controversial use in disease vector control continues.[5]

No i would like to see a terminator triga put into them so they can not be breed with or have viable pollen full stop then i and i am sure many more would be happy to see them and you know the technology is valuable to.

Yes it may be a good useful tool but so are explosives mate and in the wrong hands it can have dire results.

I would like to see where cannabis science has proven the need for a male? Link me up
buddy, here's your chance to actually post a link that is on topic, lol.

I would like to see were science has proven there is no need of a male in cannabis can you link me up ?

Artificial seeds were a flop because they couldn't pull it off well enough. I agree it would be a good thing though, I have no problem with advancements in the science of cannabis - outside of GMO crap.

Stagger, and so what? If you only came in here saying that, then you and I and many others would have no problem. However, you took all that to mean something it didn't. You put two and two together and came up with like 599.

No one here tom is not wanting positive advances in cannabis what were all not wanting is negative advances and a lot feel fem seeds is just that.

 

[Tom Hill]

I would like to see were science has proven there is no need of a male in cannabis can you link me up ?

That's about how far I got before kicking myself in the ass for reading that drivel Hempy. You come along, and say science has proven something, then when called on it, say "no, you prove the opposite". Lol, too much Hempy, too much man.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Tom cannabis is not a legal crop mate fem seeds are new correct how much research has really been done on it and its positives or negatives by science not stoners or market interested sales men or wemen nil am i right.

Do you remember Gibberellic Acid Tom only a few short years ago that was the rave to make fem seeds ?.

Well look at this Tom.

Plants synthesize an astonishing diversity of isoprenoids, some of which play essential roles in photosynthesis, respiration, and the regulation of growth and development. Two independent pathways for the biosynthesis of isoprenoid precursors coexist within the plant cell: the cytosolic mevalonic acid (MVA) pathway and the plastidial methylerythritol phosphate (MEP) pathway. However, little is known about the effects of plant hormones on the regulation of these pathways. In the present study we investigated the effect of gibberellic acid (GA3) on changes in the amounts of many produced terpenoids and the activity of the key enzymes, 1-deoxy-D-xylulose 5-phosphate synthase (DXS) and 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase (HMGR), in these pathways. Our results showed GA3 caused a decrease in DXS activity in both sexes that it was accompanied by a decrease in chlorophylls, carotenoids and Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) contents and an increase in α-tocopherol content. The treated plants with GA3 showed an increase in HMGR activity. This increase in HMGR activity was followed by accumulation of stigmasterol and β-sitosterol in male and female plants and campestrol in male plants. The pattern of the changes in the amounts of sterols was exactly similar to the changes in the HMGR activity. These data suggest that GA3 can probably influence the MEP and MVA pathways oppositely, with stimulatory and inhibitory effects on the produced primary terpenoids in MVA and DXS pathways, respectively.

 

[Tom Hill]

I see you post a lot of this type of stuff Hempy - "this spray must cause some stress" etc. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that these type of treatments have some type of residual effect on the resulting seed - they don't. Plants inherit genes, not STS or GA3 sprays Hempy. But I would not doubt that you have some bizarre/unfounded/ridiculous theories about it, and that you would further ask me to prove otherwise, lol.

 

[bombadil.360]

If you have witnessed a male or herms from feminized, or broad differences in M/F ratios under different environments, it is because parental genotype/s had sex-modifying genes in their make-up. There is no other explanation, and there is zero cause to blame the method as far as F/F vs F/M when intersexed plants show in the progeny.

One thing that "feminized" seed has shown, is just how prevalent these modifying factors are in the gene pool. Attacking them kinda seems to me to be at the peril of cannabis, for we are probably talking about a massive% of cannabis that must have them - but that's another thread. Breeding to "strongly" female plants seems to me a responsible direction, regardless of method. -T

Cannabis is X/Y determined, and anyone that thinks otherwise needs to rethink their opinion, or get an education. If you think the environment can modify sex, do you think it can modify all Cannabis? Even if the Cannabis has no inter-sex trait expression ever?
Maybe, just maybe the traits for inter-sex are inheritable? That would explain why all most all feminized seeds show inter-sex plants, because one or more of the parents had them and they were inherited and expressed in the progeny.

the question is why does the inter-sex expression show itself with more frequency in so-called fem-seeds than it does in seeds made using the traditional male + female method.

?

 

[Dalaihempy]

Tom look i like you mate this is no way personal and i respect your vues and opinions but you can not tell me that all safe guards and research real time testing on the positives or the negatives of this has honestly been tested fully or been done.

Genetics and the magic of sexual reproduction is a lot more complex than we think there is a reason for males in species like cannabis at a more complex level the reality of man made cannabis female seeds is they do produce hermies and males and the long term harm on the genetics left is well unknown at this point what is clear is there far from what there being called being female seeds.

The arguments are simple will these seeds produce only female seeds no they will not if the female used to make seeds is not a true female plant the seeds will express females hermies and even males as has been reported by many growers right across the boards.

The reasons given have mostly been the fault of the grower well that's not the case is it mate.

 

[freefields]

the question is why does the inter-sex expression show itself with more frequency in so-called fem-seeds than it does in seeds made using the traditional male + female method.

?

But do they? I've seen tons of intersexed females from regular seeds, tons of them, and in many supposedly cleaned up, expensive lines - Black Domina had several females that grew nanners for instance, so did Sensi Star, both were regular seeds.

Without doing a proper study (which is impossible given the ilelgal nature of growing) then who knows if intersexed females really are more common in femmed lines?

I'm sure bad breeding practices in terms of selection of female parents is the cause of intersexed individuals in seedlines, rather than any application of hormone blockers to produce feminsed seeds.