WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[mean mr.mustard]

T2U the moonlight borders on being too much light for the phytochrome levels to allow flowering... but isn't enough.

Any nondiffuse direct light will destroy the hormone and interrupt flowering.

For the record I was stating that indoors incorrectly applied is stressful.

Consult the edit

 

[stagger lee]

Time 2 unite thats a great point, about the light leak,moon ect.. and I can see were indoor growing could be more stressful (than out) If the grower doesnt have everything dialed in and running perfectly. Especially since indoor grows have create/simulate the grow environment...

So Hoosier you keep criticizing Breeders for creating shitty feminized seeds?!So Who does offer the "good" feminized genetics/seeds?. And if it is possible to create them properly why arent any of these seedbanks and breeders doing it?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Time 2 unite thats a great point, about the light leak,moon ect.. and I can see were indoor growing could be more stressful (than out) If the grower doesnt have everything dialed in and running perfectly. Especially since indoor grows have create/simulate the grow environment...

So Hoosier you keep criticizing Breeders for creating shitty feminized seeds?!So Who does offer the "good" feminized genetics/seeds?. And if it is possible to create them properly why arent any of these seedbanks and breeders doing it?

See, first things first....you need to understand what I write and state it as such, not just what you want to say. For example, I have not thrown the criticism at any breeders in particular. What I am trying to convey goes for ALL people who would mate MJ plants together, and not just professional, or even semi-pro breeders.
What I am saying is simple, the expression of any and all progeny will be a result of the combining of genetic maps of the parents. Parents are selected in one way or another, be it a random pick, or though a long process of grow, evaluate, chose, repeat.
If one or both of the parents carries a high propensity to express the intersex gene, then it only stands to reason that the progeny of such a parent also carries a high probability of that gene being expressed in a certain number of it's progeny.
How dominant the intersex gene is in BOTH parental stock determines how dominant it may be in their seeds.

Now, some breeders are more concerned with selecting parent plants that have other traits like more resin, smell, taste, type of high, etc...and often times the selection can allow some other less desirable traits into the game simply because other traits were priority. Not every commercial cultivar, be it a hybrid or a landrace, has always been selected to provide hermie free stock. In fact, some strains have hermie prone genetics and no matter how hard the breeder tried, he could not get rid of the heavily dominant intersex gene. Take DJ's F13 for an example....I guarantee you there are some hermies to be found and it won't take you long, but it also has jewels. The selection process and the final genetic maps of that strain are what they are.

Fem seeds are exactly the same scenario as regular seeds, save for two things. The way you came about the pollen for one, and for another the paternal side does not pass on the Y chromosome. That is about it. The frequency of hermies is key to the genetic map of the parents. And if you use two females that are stress tested for hermies, and proven to be true breeders for no hermie, then I guarantee you that the progeny of these two females will NOT carry a high propensity to express hermie. It just doesn't have it to get from either of the well selected parents. So, it won't show it. Now, it could be that ALL plants have the intersex gene available, or at least any plants that we may encounter, and it is never going to go away completely. It can always show in a small percentage of progeny..IF the genes are there for it to happen.

Be it regular or feminized, there is nothing different about the selection process of good stock.

This thread is not a breeder vs breeder thing, but I would highly suggest you look around at how many breeders are actually providing fem seeds. And then look around for all those nay sayers that Hempy states exists...they are nowhere to be found but right here with you guys.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I grew out a garden two seasons that had a 400 watt metal halide streelamp shining on them. It was about 200 ft away. No hermies. They were shadowed some, but they saw the light every night.

 

[Dalaihempy]

It amazes me that there always has to be bull boys in every post.

There are differences from indoor growing to out door growing exprest by some plant lines in the way they mature but the indoor plant has it easy as a grower you are the one to blame if you fuck things up full stop i bet you bully boy experts can tell me what the differences are as your such experts.

Some of you in here need to wake the fuck up show some respect lots have been growing longer than some of you have been alive you can put your point across with out being complete ass holes.

Fem seeds are not breed they are created by using a clone that is chemically reversed to pollinate its self they have been around a few years now were seeing some lines only available in fem form from breeders that once had reg seeds now and the reports around the boards from growers have been mixed some are happy many are not they have found many plants herming and even found males they are facts you can dance around all you like.

Now to start blaming indoor growing for fem seeds herming is complete bull shit what i see is from most indoor growers is a dedication to there plants and more times than not state of the art grow set ups like air cons so on were there plants don't even get above 80f indoor gardens are optimum growing conditions.

Turning a female into a male has to be stressful on the plant but no it cant be as its producing female seeds.

 

[gettitreal]

hempy:"Fem seeds are not breed they are created by using a clone that is chemically reversed to pollinate its self"

"they have been around a few years now"

"Turning a female into a male has to be stressful on the plant"


>>>> ALL WRONG. At least youre consistent.

Do you think youll like being informed..if you get there?

 

[Tom Hill]

Hempy,

Lots, and I mean LOTS of folks who have been growing for a LONG time simply fail to find the light switch in their head man. They reach ridiculous conclusions because their minds are closed-up, they fail to take enough into consideration. For all we know, the lack of lighting on the friggen stalk due to lack of sunrise/sunset indoors is some massive stress. Please, quit pretending to have all the facts bro, you don't.

Most likely, from my angle, is that the lack of sufficient numbers for selection programs is responsible for some prevalence of intersexed plants. Ya just can't get it all without sufficient numbers (boy, gettit will love that, lol). This is NOT exclusive to gynoecious selection programs Hempy, no fucking way. Hermies have been rearing their heads since long before your real breeding heros punched their flags in over their. Today, "elite" clones are being heavily bred, both via reversal as well as M/F. Problem is, these elites are most often found in bagseed that had at least some propensity to flip, or the seed would have never been there in the first place.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Today, "elite" clones are being heavily bred, both via reversal as well as M/F. Problem is, these elites are most often found in bagseed that had at least some propensity to flip, or they would have never been there in the first place.

Boom.

 

[Guest423]

I don't know what planet some of you people are from but where I'm from you can take a killer clone, spray it with CS and come out with S1's that even excel more then the original clone. You can also take 2 clone only strains and spray one of them to make killer feminized hybrids that you would have no other way of doing it.

Dank strains being made, guerilla growers dream come true, you can start 100's of feminized beans in cups without needing to have mothers or having to take 100's of clones. No more having to grow twice as many seeds, diggin twice as many holes, taking care of twice as many plants, just to pull half of them when they are males, FUCK THAT.

People need to make their own shit and quit crying about what everyone else is doing. Funny how you got people sayin this and that about feminized seeds when they've never even made any or grown them out, all ya got to say is "what I've seen around the boards".

I love me some hermie free hybrids and S1's! I also like normal hybrids and landrace genetics, everything has it's place.

 

[Guest423]

For all we know, the lack of lighting on the friggen stalk due to lack of sunrise/sunset indoors is some massive stress.

I agree, thats what I was trying to get at earlier today with my posts. There's just alot we don't know about, or how/why things happen in nature.

 

[Rastatrue]

Hey Now,
Time 2Unite is correct. Make your own. It works and he's right. When you don't have to worry about a horny male you waste less time and space. I used to read about the technique. did'nt believe it, then I finally did it. 2 hermis out of 15 seeds-all the rest were females. I was amazed and got one my best harvest. Cloning is so much easier.

Next people will want pre-rolled buds growing. It's the journey that was exciting, once I got there I was off to some place else.

 

[charlie garcia]

Breed and reverse are different things. I see some ppl think thats all about, reversing but is all about selecting well first and then reverse so you can enjoy mostly females. Your breeder or your not.
Just for reversing succesfully doesnt mean you are breeding succesfully.
Some like this some like that, am glad we still have own thoughts each and can talk about it, dont be afraid of disagree but argument pls. We dont have to marry each other but agree or disagree. Sounds easy

I cant trust oudoors for selecting correctly. You need some stress, at least I do like so less mistakes in intersexuals when using these lines for seeds. Sometimes is impossible and what feminized has is that not everything with great smoke quality may be done in fem. Indoors is been much more stressfull in my field experience due type of lines I like to grow. I have had beautiful females outdoors which will perform much more unstable in intersexual dept indoors. But I believe also some hybrids made under weak lights for generations may peform much more stable indoors.

Its all relative, cant see a world in black and white, everything vs nothing, always vs never, not only 2 sides, thats very poor conception, all depends on. Maths are much more accurate than botanic.
best

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hempy,

Lots, and I mean LOTS of folks who have been growing for a LONG time simply fail to find the light switch in their head man. They reach ridiculous conclusions because their minds are closed-up, they fail to take enough into consideration. For all we know, the lack of lighting on the friggen stalk due to lack of sunrise/sunset indoors is some massive stress. Please, quit pretending to have all the facts bro, you don't.

Tom on the contrie i never sed i have all the answers mate but i have grow long inuf in both out door environments and in door environments to know that when some one says indoor plants endure more stress in there life cycle to out door grown plants that is well bull shit.

You do relise that some plants mature different indoors to if they were grown out doors right i could not work out why for years and then worked out why i have read so much bull shit threw the years on the boards from a plant needs to be mature in veg like months and months before it is flowered to gain its full potency to out door plants taste better smoke better yes more dilutions.

A grower that watch's his or her plants study's them experiments will gain more than those that read alone and hands on experience is the most important tom and the willingness to think outside the square is often the best place to be that is were a person Lorens i feel and gains the most.

Most likely, from my angle, is that the lack of sufficient numbers for selection programs is responsible for some prevalence of intersexed plants. Ya just can't get it all without sufficient numbers (boy, gettit will love that, lol). This is NOT exclusive to gynoecious selection programs Hempy, no fucking way. Hermies have been rearing their heads since long before your real breeding heros punched their flags in over their. Today, "elite" clones are being heavily bred, both via reversal as well as M/F. Problem is, these elites are most often found in bagseed that had at least some propensity to flip, or the seed would have never been there in the first place.

Do you know tom i don't have any breeders as heroes mate i look at every one from a newbie to people such as Neville and Sam as growers reality is your smoke is only going to be as good as the genetics your working with you could be the worlds best grower and have shit genetics they will still grow out to be shit still.

The first time i saw what most of us call hermies was in modern lines in the old days if we had a female from sexing it stayed as as one not half way threw its flowering start to throw out male flowers from the female flowers as some modern lines do the only hermies we saw was at sexing and once culled males and females that sexed as that would stay as female or male.

I have seen many plants grown out doors that were 14 ft or larger produce a single seed i never thort of them as a hermie more looked at it as a self preservation triga the bag seed we grew as i am sure you did tom came from imported lines or even in house but when we grew the seed out we got the same quality of product the seed came from and with no herming the plants were uniform.

You cant say if a seed found in a bag was from a hermie pollination or a male pulled late until it is grown but in the old days it was out door grows on large scale and often males were pulled after it had let some of its pollen loos mate.

As for what people call elite clones the first time i heard that term was from the boards and used by Americans most of us call a good plant good and OK one OK shit as shit.

The fact that a plant is being chemically changed from a female to a male has to stress the plant in some way there is no way its not and the method is not 100% perfect because if it was it would not be reported across the boards by growers growing out many lines of fem seeds saying there getting hermies and even males.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

your smoke is only going to be as good as the genetics your working with

Same with making feminized seeds or selfed seeds.

The fact that a plant is being chemically changed from a female to a male has to stress the plant in some way

First off, it does NOT change a female to a male. The chemical does indeed stress the plant, and the reaction to this particular stress is the production of stamen. The sex of the plant wasn't changed...you do understand that part, yes?

And stop harping about how long you have been growing. I had a guy working for me that was an idiot for 30 years, and he too thought his resume as a long time idiot gave him some special powers. It doesn't. He was an idiot with 30 years experience at it.
And I have been growing pot plants since 1973. I bet you have been at it far longer than that, yes? Or were you born yet? (shrug) Really doesn't matter in this issue. Age does not bring about wisdom in genetics.

For all we know, the lack of lighting on the friggen stalk due to lack of sunrise/sunset indoors is some massive stress.

This was what I was trying to convey to you, Hempy. Just because you feel things are less stressful for the plant, doesn't mean they are really less stressful. You are using your logic, and that is about it. I find it is often flawed logic, and instead of discussing it to get to the bottom line, you would rather continue on an idiots rampage using no sense at all. Always putting others downs for being stupid and not thinking, when it is clear who is the one being stupid here. Hard headed and belligerent to boot.

The fact that a plant is being chemically changed from a female to a male has to stress the plant in some way there is no way its not and the method is not 100% perfect because if it was it would not be reported across the boards by growers growing out many lines of fem seeds saying there getting hermies and even males.

Time to call your bluff, dewd. Show us some examples of this, or STFU!

 

[BENJI]

Enough of the name calling keep it civil and on topic or don't bother posting we come to these threads for information not to watch people sling crap at each other it stops now..

 

[Dalaihempy]

Benji some people can bring out the worse in us all and in all honesty mate there is only so much any one can take before they really find the need to well react hoosierdaddy needs to be put on a lesh if he does not agre with what people are saying he gets all nasty hoosierdaddy tuff live with it.



This fem seed debate is like most posts unless you fall into line and do as hoosierdaddy or the likes of him say your an idot and will suffer under his kep pad well lifes a bitch is it not lol,

 

[Guest423]

I disagree about not getting info off these sites, I've gained a wealth of knowledge off these sites. You just have to learn to sipher through the BS, look at every situation and scenario and figure out why it happened like that.

If someone gets some Feminized beans and has issues with their setup they will probably see hermies, but theres a good chance they would of also seen hermies with normal beans too. There's pure lines out there with hermies in them, its just a part of life.

Seriously though, there's alot of outdoor growers checking in on this thread. How many hermies have you seen in your day growing outdoors? I've grown alot of numbers outside including clones, S1's, feminized hybrids, normal hybrids, and landrace lines. I've only seen a handful of hermies and they were all in the same season in the same plot.

You can take some of them same plants that grew flawlessly outdoors, bring them inside and they hermie, why? Even though your room is game tight and other varieties have no hermie issues. There has to be some sort of trigger or something, something indoors that they weren't getting outdoors/visa versa, or something they were able to adapt with on their own outside but can't get the resources inside.

Indoors I don't get very many hermies either but they do come about more then outdoors, I've takin the same exact seedlines/clones that hermies on me indoors, brought them outdoors and have had no hermies.

Save your energy typing about how my grow room sucks and I don't know how to grow indoors. If you don't have anything to contribute to the thread no reason in posting.

Hoosierdaddy- I hear ya about the people that talk about their 30 years experience, you run into them kind of guys all the time at work places, I always think to myself it would suck to be you when I learned your job better then you within a month that took you 30 years and you still don't get it. Thats not a jab at anyone, I just know the type very well.

 

[stagger lee]

I want you to show me how stress brings about a male from feminized seed stock.
Simple task, and you seem to have all the books. Find us something that backs up stress causing males to show in fem seeds. I want you to quote it verbatim for us, and give us links so we can check out your references.
If you aren't willing to do that for us, then I have to assume you really aren't serious about this issue, and are only trolling for post count.
Hey, and if I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it and will not hesitate to tell all just who straightened me out. (lol...can you hear my screen name being called out in your head?..lol)

somehow I dont think you capable of that but anyway....

Breeders bible (Greg Greens) chap 15 pg132-


"Feminized seeds have proven that sex is not just an inherited trait. During the feminized seed process an xx female is selected and stressed to make seeds that will produce female seeds and sometimes hermaphrodites. Still males might be found in the feminized offspring. The reason for this is that the environment and growing conditons appear to influence the feminized plants sex. In fact standard seeds are also influenced by the environment and growing factors."

"This is very important concept to grasp; a set genotype can have a different phenotype because of environmental conditions."

"Female plants tend to develop in optimal growing conditions while male and herms plants occur in less optial conditions."

"In growing environments that are less than optimal, or in situations where the plants are stressed males and herms tend to show up in populations. Now this shows that sexual expression is not governed by the MJ plants genes alone and that the grow environment plays an active roll in the final expression of the plants gender!"
"Most growers believe that the cannabis seed is genetically predisposed to its sexual orientation as soon as fertilization takes place.But this is not true "

"Seed banks cannot be responsible for bad female to male ratios. Can they be held responsible for feminized seeds turning male? Since this is very much dependent on the growing environment the answer is no they shouldnt be held responsible!"

You see hoosier, your stuck on the xx,xy genetic inheritence determining sex. But sex determination in mj isnt just about genetic inheritence period! The epigamic theory(non genetic) environmental influences that your not trying to hear. Youve heard 1 thing and stuck to it. Many have! But if you really care about learning dont just shut out everything else.

Dont believe me CHECKOUT MARIJUANA BOTANY Robert Connell Clarke PAGE 166 (sex Determination)

 

[JackTheGrower]

Time 2 unite thats a great point, about the light leak,moon ect.. and I can see were indoor growing could be more stressful (than out) If the grower doesnt have everything dialed in and running perfectly. Especially since indoor grows have create/simulate the grow environment...

So Hoosier you keep criticizing Breeders for creating shitty feminized seeds?!So Who does offer the "good" feminized genetics/seeds?. And if it is possible to create them properly why arent any of these seedbanks and breeders doing it?

The Green Status LED light on a GFI wall plug is all it takes to disrupt flowering from my experience.

Only the far side of a plant 4 feet away started to flower on the Flip clock until I realized the tape has come off that LED.

It doesn't take much but that also says something for those little green LED's @ 4 feet away.

 

[englishrick]

do you guys think cannabis and its plant ancestors were naturaly diotious,,,?


"Still males might be found in the feminized offspring. The reason for this is that the environment and growing conditons appear to influence the feminized plants sex."

i think it would be better if he said::::

still "intersexed expreshion might be found in feminized progeny, the reason for this it because some growing conditions stimulate intersexed expreshion in plants who carrie repective means, many cannabis seedlines carrie intersexed traits but some varietys donot,

greg says hes found males in his fem seeds,,,but actualy what hes found is an intersexed expreshion oviously derived from parents who also carrie the respective genes,,,