Wilting and Eagle Claw in Veg

[DONAJTHEIII]

big dog are you taking these clones your self ? are you using a 50/50 mix ? If your plant has weak roots because your cloning skills arent up to par then of course your plants are going to keep dying. you need to establish a good root mass and then put them in a nice aerated coco mix that is alot more forgiving for someone with a heavy hand.


AJAE

 

[bigdog123]

No, these plants had plenty of roots. Remember, they were transplanted from recycled coco, where they were struggling, into brand new canna coco. They were left unwatered for 7 days and the pots began to dry out. I saw some new roots forming on the top of the coco and I fed/watered with ebb and flow and the leaves began drooping again. I guess it's the waiting game again while the coco dries out. I'll allow the coco to dry out even more this time before feeding again.

The cana coco does not have perilite mixed in.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

No, these plants had plenty of roots. Remember, they were transplanted from recycled coco, where they were struggling, into brand new canna coco. They were left unwatered for 7 days and the pots began to dry out. I saw some new roots forming on the top of the coco and I fed/watered with ebb and flow and the leaves began drooping again. I guess it's the waiting game again while the coco dries out. I'll allow the coco to dry out even more this time before feeding again.

The cana coco does not have perilite mixed in.

thats a pretty big aspect that your coco doesnt have perlite your roots are suffocating. I know some people who run pure coco but man I always like some kind of aeration so the roots can breathe. whether its 75% coco 25%perlite or 50/50 I wouldnt use coco without aeration thats just me. I see the best results with aerated coco it is a passive hydro afterall. Coco and hydroton coco and perlite coco and grow stones coco and lava rocks. whatever you like but just get some aeration.



AJAE

 

[bigdog123]

Unfortunately, these haven't made a 100% turn around yet. Although, I think things are heading in the right direction. So, since that transplant from old, tired, 3x recycled coco into fresh cana coco I waited 7 days to flood. I waited another 5 days to flood after that. I have been feeling the pots weight and feeding after they have begun to dry out. The major positive sign is that the new stock growth has gone from the hard purple to a soft green. However, the new leaves still have purple veins and they are not as dark as I'd like. Should I add some N? Do you think flooding the tables every 5-7 days is proper?

You may be able to see the new root growth protruding from the bottom of the pot. They are strong, white, and hairy roots. Hyped on that.

Still showing leaf curling.

Purple veins and generally unhappy leaf.

That new growth changing color and texture. Two thumbs up.

CD4 that has gone through the same experiences as the OG. The cd4 is far from perfect, but they are handling the stress better than the OG.

What do you guys think? What am I doing right? What would you suggest changing to help get these babies crackin? I want to get them in a state of rapid growth before flipping them to bloom. How long do you think that might take?

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

damn bigdog !


didnt catch you were in a flood and drain.

I tried flood and drain one time in coco hated it ! plants look exactly like yours. Your like wtf because you keep getting overwatering symptoms.


Kept scratching my head. Its because it is overwatered. If you have a small pump filling up a flood and drain its like keeping your head under water youll drown know what im saying ?

It has to be a fast fill up and fast drain from my experience and it still did not compete with my coco DTW (drain to waste).



Give the ladies a shot of nutes....(6/9 personally)at .8-.1.0 ec top fed hand watered with a good amount of runoff. I guarantee you big dog if you handwater and get 20% runoff each watering theyll green back up and perk up.



Its the flood and drain thats causing it if your giving it the right nutes.


99% positive thats it cause It looks like you were in my flood and drain setup looking at my girls back in the day. SMH aha hated the flood but love the tables in dtw




AJAE

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

MY roots were pearly white too btw . My flood table had amazing roots but the leaves on top kept showing overwatering. Went to hand water greened right back up.


COCO TOP FEED DTW KICKS ASS

NEVER GOING BACK TO FLOOD AND DRAIN



AJAE

 

[bigdog123]

Interesting take on the flood and drain. I took your advice and top fed yesterday. We'll see how it goes using that strategy.

I'd also like to address another possibility that you bring up. "Its the flood and drain thats causing it if your giving it the right nutes." Perhaps my nutes are off. I just posted a new thread discussing my nutrient schedule. I'd greatly appreciate if you would take a look and tell me what they think. I want to thank everyone that has helped me with this overwater issue and invite you to please take a look at my feeding schedule. I keep my grow extremely private so getting as much input as possible is extremely helpful. The privacy allows me peace of mind, but doesn't afford me much hands on help or advice.

 

[bigdog123]

I'm a genius and forgot to post the link.

 

[SnowCreature]

Omg fuck you all for telling this guy he's overwatering 4 week old plants in coco... Lol.
You all forgot there's another cause for clawing and red stems.... UNDERWATERING!
I feel bad for this poor guy.
Lol mostly at the calmag guy.. .lol.
Water them everyday for the next week and they bounce back, otherwise toss them out

 

[bigdog123]

I'm looking for some help on fine tuning my feeding. I appreciated your input on this issue and i would love it if you would take the time to check out what I've been feeding and let me know what you think. CLICK HERE.

 

[bigdog123]

Thats correct u never want ur coco dry but right after transplant or immature younger plants with small root system u should lettem dry out somewhat ... if they are soaked with no roots it chokes them out...

I'm looking for some help on fine tuning my feeding. I appreciated your input on this issue and i would love it if you would take the time to check out what I've been feeding and let me know what you think. CLICK HERE.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

Omg fuck you all for telling this guy he's overwatering 4 week old plants in coco... Lol.
You all forgot there's another cause for clawing and red stems.... UNDERWATERING!
I feel bad for this poor guy.
Lol mostly at the calmag guy.. .lol.
Water them everyday for the next week and they bounce back, otherwise toss them out

Instead of coming into the thread saying fuck you why dont you actually read bigdogs posts. If youve been following him youd see that people have already mentioned this and that he says their heavy in weight only he can tell as hes in front of the plant and we arent. He stated many times that their heavy.

ALSO !!!! overwatering = yellowing and red stems !!!! fact Do you want me to overwater a spare plant I have and prove this to you. MG is affected by overwatering. With a epsom foliar feeding and letting it dry out it will turn around. I can do it and the plant will look exactly as bigdogs does. Will that keep you from being so stubborn and instead of posting ignorant posts you can learn a thing or two and give nice helpful insightful thoughts in the future

So now that thats cleared up I doubt its underwatering especially if they havent turned around yet when youve givin them a watering aha

Bigdog I posted in your other thread but bro. you need to keep it simple !

If you dont let your roots buildup and get a solid mass in early veg your in for failure. Dry sessions= roots catching which is needed early on


Go out spend no more than 20 bucks get yourself a bag of maxibloom and read the KISS thread. or go out and get a bottle of floramicro/florabloom (6ml/9ml a gal)

Then you dont have to question if the ratios are right. Keep some epsom salt by yourside for MG whores and your set.

SIMPLICITY = SUCCESS


6/9 Drain To Waste top fed

SOLOCUPS => 2 GAL.

is what I run.

AJAE

 

[siftedunity]

Do me a favor and don't tell me what to tell people. I'm well aware of oxygen in the rootzone, which is why the more you water in coco, the more freshly oxygenated water you get to the root zone, while the oxygen depleted water is pushed out. Maybe you should stop telling people what you don't know. More frequent waterings means more oxygen to the root zone. Of this there is no doubt. Do some more reading and get up to speed, because the "advice" you are giving is bad. Coco is a hydro medium. Which part of that don't you understand? For best results, coco should be watered multiple times daily. This increases the oxygen to the root zone and provides explosive growth. I've done this enough times to know that it works, and that it is impossible to over water quality (not reused) coco, unless you are talking about seedlings, or pots with no drainage. This is pretty much common knowledge in the coco forums, but I am going by experience, which is the greatest teacher.

you can overwater in coco. even if you don't see signs of it, there will be a knock on effect.

 

[siftedunity]

^ I wouldn't worry. Ive found its the rudest smart ass growers online that don't even have a single plant pic in their gallery. seems like a huge coincidence to me. talk is cheap..

 

[bigdog123]

Thanks for the help guys. The girls have bounced back and I have flipped them to bloom. I had to stay in veg way longer than I anticipated, but it is what it is. Building that root zone in veg should pay off later. Thanks for all the help. I am confident the problem was a combination of overwatering and recycling coco one too many times. Reminder: It was on it's third run. It just didn't seem to be able to hold any Oxygen. You guys are awesome.

DonaJ, I like Cutting Edge based on price and performance so far. I know there are plenty of people out there using it with great results. I'd like to learn from other people's experience with it to have a well rounded understanding of what each additive does, when to use what, and why. I'm down with KISS and I think I can do that with Cutting Edge, but I'd just like a more clear understanding of why I'm doing what I'm doing.

 

[siftedunity]

good luck man.. glad you got the issues sorted now..

 

[RetroGrow]

you can overwater in coco. even if you don't see signs of it, there will be a knock on effect.

That must be it. I'm over watering but just don't see it, but you can see it from long distance. All this time, I've been over watering in coco, but just didn't see it.
That's too funny. You can over water seedlings, or you can "over water" if you have no drainage and have standing water, or you can "over water" if your coco is over used and no longer holding the oxygen that it should. But you CANNOT over water in coco in Hempy buckets, the system I prefer. IMPOSSIBLE. Excess water just runs off. The more frequent watering brings freshly oxygenated water more frequently. More oxygen means explosive growth. So, if you have managed to over water in coco, you're doing something wrong. Again:root system must be developed, and coco must be good.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

ok mr. cannot overwater. water your plants every hour. get back to me about how you didn't overwater them in coco. i'll be right here eagerly waiting.

 

[siftedunity]

That must be it. I'm over watering but just don't see it, but you can see it from long distance. All this time, I've been over watering in coco, but just didn't see it.
That's too funny. You can over water seedlings, or you can "over water" if you have no drainage and have standing water, or you can "over water" if your coco is over used and no longer holding the oxygen that it should. But you CANNOT over water in coco in Hempy buckets, the system I prefer. IMPOSSIBLE. Excess water just runs off. The more frequent watering brings freshly oxygenated water more frequently. More oxygen means explosive growth. So, if you have managed to over water in coco, you're doing something wrong. Again:root system must be developed, and coco must be good.

yes root system does need to be developed for frequent watering, I agree. but there is an optimum point at which you should water. you cant just keep dumping loads of water through, you need to have wet to dry (~not fully dry) periods for optimum root development and growth. most people over water in coco. fact. most don't get out of it what they can.

if you know so much better than us, show us some pics so we can see what you are achieving.

 

[RetroGrow]

Funny. I have nothing to prove to you. There is a reason some people don't post lots of pictures.
Can you over water in hydro?