Gotcha now.
Thought you were under the impression analog meters not showing the consumption...but you were talking about usage pattern instead.
Will PG&E's SmartMeters smoke out pot growers?
- Thread starter Payaso
- Start date
Gotcha now.
Thought you were under the impression analog meters not showing the consumption...but you were talking about usage pattern instead.
I've had a digital meter for 3 grows now...
Now I only use 250w and I have my timer set to give the old closet a break for a few hours in the afternoon. Aside from that I tend to turn it on and off myself most days and it varies by up to an hour.
I can see a graph of my usage month by month and there is a rise when I grow but its not all that much, my gaming computer and space heater (used sparingly in winter) can for short periods do as much to my usage as growing.
Now I only use 250w and I have my timer set to give the old closet a break for a few hours in the afternoon. Aside from that I tend to turn it on and off myself most days and it varies by up to an hour.
I can see a graph of my usage month by month and there is a rise when I grow but its not all that much, my gaming computer and space heater (used sparingly in winter) can for short periods do as much to my usage as growing.
there are way too many growers in this country for any electric company to just arbitrarily hand over every grower out there, there are probably many many more grows than cops...they couldn't clean out every grow in the country even if they knew where every single one was...at best they could pop the biggest dudes...
also, i don't think a lot of people in this thread understand how the power grid works...they have to balance their usage throughout the entire country, it's not exactly a "more the merrier" sales strategy, thats why they constantly advertise how you can reduce your bill...they will sell all the electricity they make no matter what, it goes into the grid...and in places like cali that use so much electricity every year they need rolling blackouts...well really the growers are taking millions of dollars worth of energy for plants that could be growing for free outdoors, and making it so thousands of innocent people, with small carbon footprints lose their power temporarily every summer...you aren't boosting their bottom lines because for the most part they are already maxed out...you cannot have a surplus of electricity...our countries power grid doesn't really allow for that. growers are not electric companies friends...and they aren't going to fight the police to keep your records secret...if you give them reason to suspect you then they can find out easily enough...
all this is really is a tool for cops, old meters don't show the light signature, so if they suspected you before they would have to sneak your garbage bags out without letting on what they are up too, costly surveillance, phone tapping (also costly, Nokia charges over 500 bucks to the cops for every tap!)intimidation, all kinds of costly and time consuming methods to record enough proof to get a judge to sign off on a warrant. now it seems all they will have to do is call the electric company, wait for an email to arrive with a pretty graph of your lighting schedule, show it to a judge and bam! they are in your house, shouting, shooting your dog, and tearing apart your couch cushions!
also, i don't think a lot of people in this thread understand how the power grid works...they have to balance their usage throughout the entire country, it's not exactly a "more the merrier" sales strategy, thats why they constantly advertise how you can reduce your bill...they will sell all the electricity they make no matter what, it goes into the grid...and in places like cali that use so much electricity every year they need rolling blackouts...well really the growers are taking millions of dollars worth of energy for plants that could be growing for free outdoors, and making it so thousands of innocent people, with small carbon footprints lose their power temporarily every summer...you aren't boosting their bottom lines because for the most part they are already maxed out...you cannot have a surplus of electricity...our countries power grid doesn't really allow for that. growers are not electric companies friends...and they aren't going to fight the police to keep your records secret...if you give them reason to suspect you then they can find out easily enough...
all this is really is a tool for cops, old meters don't show the light signature, so if they suspected you before they would have to sneak your garbage bags out without letting on what they are up too, costly surveillance, phone tapping (also costly, Nokia charges over 500 bucks to the cops for every tap!)intimidation, all kinds of costly and time consuming methods to record enough proof to get a judge to sign off on a warrant. now it seems all they will have to do is call the electric company, wait for an email to arrive with a pretty graph of your lighting schedule, show it to a judge and bam! they are in your house, shouting, shooting your dog, and tearing apart your couch cushions!
From Humboldt County News:
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 - 15:23
Finally, a crackdown on some serious marijuana-related fraud that we have all witnessed in California, especially here in Humboldt County.
PG&E is ready to go after abusers of its CARE program, and that's a big deal. It's a big deal because CARE fraud by for-profit indoor marijuana growers is just another way grower greed has been screwing the rest of us over for many years.
First, for those who don't know, CARE is PG&E's California Alternate Rates for Energy program, and it was created to provide reduced/discounted energy rates to low-income families and individuals who actually could not otherwise afford to keep the lights and heat running in their homes. Qualifying households get a discount on energy rates of at least 20%, and in many cases that discount is as high as 70%. But PG&E doesn't provide the discounts out of its own pocket. Instead, CARE is subsidized by charging an additional 5% to all non-CARE customers.
So, take from the rich and give to the poor, sounds good, right? Not that we support that type of economic approach, but the concept isn't all bad in this case. The problem is that, while the rest of us are paying ever-increasing rates for our energy use, thousands and thousands of for-profit California pot growers are scamming us by participating in the program to lower the overhead of their illegal businesses. The fraudsters can do this because they do not report their marijuana-related income, and therefor can "prove" to PG&E that they are impoverished enough to take advantage of the discount program.
The problem is so bad, in fact, that the Eureka Times-Standard recently reported that "Arcata Police Chief Tom Chapman said that more than 70 percent of the grow houses searched by his department in the past two years have been utilizing the CARE program."
Which doesn't surprise us at all. Countless growers we have interacted with over the years freely admit to abusing the CARE program, and when questioned as to why they would fraudulently scam PG&E that way, the response generally amounts to "fuck 'em," which further illustrates the level of greed present among so many criminal indoor marijuana growers. We have even witnessed profitable pot farmers abusing other low-income programs like MediCal and CalFresh (food stamps), making thousands of dollars per month in pure black market profit and still stopping by the social services office to pick up their food stamps every two weeks, then using the benefits to buy lobster tails and fine cheeses at Wildberries. Hopefully that scenario is not common, but who knows? If a greedy grower is willing to steal from PG&E and the IRS, then why not also steal from other government programs?
Despite PG&E having little incentive to really crack down on CARE abusers (since they don't actually foot the bill for the program), we sincerely hope they give it a substantial effort. For those growers who follow the rules, pay taxes on their marijuana income, and bear the actual costs of all that expensive electricity they use, keep on truckin' and running your operation in an honorable fashion. For the rest of you, the greedy, tax-evading, douchebag growers degrading our community: Fuck you.
Posted on Jan 27, 2012 - 15:23
Finally, a crackdown on some serious marijuana-related fraud that we have all witnessed in California, especially here in Humboldt County.
PG&E is ready to go after abusers of its CARE program, and that's a big deal. It's a big deal because CARE fraud by for-profit indoor marijuana growers is just another way grower greed has been screwing the rest of us over for many years.
First, for those who don't know, CARE is PG&E's California Alternate Rates for Energy program, and it was created to provide reduced/discounted energy rates to low-income families and individuals who actually could not otherwise afford to keep the lights and heat running in their homes. Qualifying households get a discount on energy rates of at least 20%, and in many cases that discount is as high as 70%. But PG&E doesn't provide the discounts out of its own pocket. Instead, CARE is subsidized by charging an additional 5% to all non-CARE customers.
So, take from the rich and give to the poor, sounds good, right? Not that we support that type of economic approach, but the concept isn't all bad in this case. The problem is that, while the rest of us are paying ever-increasing rates for our energy use, thousands and thousands of for-profit California pot growers are scamming us by participating in the program to lower the overhead of their illegal businesses. The fraudsters can do this because they do not report their marijuana-related income, and therefor can "prove" to PG&E that they are impoverished enough to take advantage of the discount program.
The problem is so bad, in fact, that the Eureka Times-Standard recently reported that "Arcata Police Chief Tom Chapman said that more than 70 percent of the grow houses searched by his department in the past two years have been utilizing the CARE program."
Which doesn't surprise us at all. Countless growers we have interacted with over the years freely admit to abusing the CARE program, and when questioned as to why they would fraudulently scam PG&E that way, the response generally amounts to "fuck 'em," which further illustrates the level of greed present among so many criminal indoor marijuana growers. We have even witnessed profitable pot farmers abusing other low-income programs like MediCal and CalFresh (food stamps), making thousands of dollars per month in pure black market profit and still stopping by the social services office to pick up their food stamps every two weeks, then using the benefits to buy lobster tails and fine cheeses at Wildberries. Hopefully that scenario is not common, but who knows? If a greedy grower is willing to steal from PG&E and the IRS, then why not also steal from other government programs?
Despite PG&E having little incentive to really crack down on CARE abusers (since they don't actually foot the bill for the program), we sincerely hope they give it a substantial effort. For those growers who follow the rules, pay taxes on their marijuana income, and bear the actual costs of all that expensive electricity they use, keep on truckin' and running your operation in an honorable fashion. For the rest of you, the greedy, tax-evading, douchebag growers degrading our community: Fuck you.
I think this article inspired the writer above:
http://www.times-standard.com/ci_19176562?IADID=Search-www.times-standard.com-www.times-standard.com
PG&E seeks reform in CARE program, looks to rein in abuse of low-income rates by pot growers
Thadeus Greenson/The Times-Standardtimes-standard.com/
Posted: 10/23/2011 02:18:22 AM PDT
Pacific Gas and Electric Co. is asking the California Public Utilities Commission to authorize changes to its discount electric rate program for low-income households -- a program that law enforcement officials recently criticized as rife with abuse by indoor marijuana grow operations.
”Our intention is not to remove the discount from those who are truly eligible, but rather ensure that those customers who either no longer need the discount or are taking unwarranted advantage of it are moved off as quickly as possible,” said PG&E spokeswoman Brandi Ehlers in an e-mail to the Times-Standard.
The public utilities commission requires all four of the state's major power companies to offer a subsidized rate program for low-income households. PG&E's version, the California Alternate Rates for Energy, or CARE, program, offers qualifying households discounts of at least 20 percent that are subsidized through an almost 5 percent fee on the bills of ratepayers who don't qualify as low-income.
As recently reported in the Times-Standard, the program is intended to help low-income families keep the lights on but is being widely abused by indoor marijuana growing operations that make large profits and gobble up huge amounts of electricity.
Arcata Police Chief Tom Chapman said that more than 70 percent of the grow houses searched by his department in the past two years have been utilizing the CARE program.
In one recently prosecuted case, a house on the 700 block of Fickle Hill was found to have received an almost 70 percent discount on its $1,500 electric bill as it used 4,676 kilowatt hours of electricity in December 2010 -- an amount roughly 10 times the average monthly consumption of a Humboldt County household.
When officers searched the house in February, they reported finding more than $34,000 in cash, snowboards, mountain bikes and a flat screen television -- not items found in the typical low-income household.
That's just one of many examples. There was the house on Cedar Drive, where officers found about 500 growing marijuana plants and PG&E records indicating the place drew about 5,757 kilowatt hours of electricity in a one-month period but paid just $546 of an $1,850 bill, the balance subsidized through other ratepayers under the CARE program.
Then there was the most egregious recent example, a home on California Avenue that Chapman said was growing about 700 plants. In a one-month period, Chapman said the house used 14,501 kilowatt hours of electricity, paying $604 of a bill that would have cost a non-CARE customer almost $2,500.
Part of the reason the program is widely abused, according to officials, is the fact that PG&E, per the guidelines outlined by the public utilities commission, allows households to self-report their eligibility for the program, doing subsequent income verifications on only 11 percent of applicants. There's also no cap on the amount of subsidized electricity a household enrolled in the program can consume, making it an attractive option for marijuana growers looking to lower their bills and increase their profits.
In the previous Times-Standard story, Chapman said PG&E simply has no incentive to regulate the program because it's revenue neutral for the company, meaning the discounts aren't coming out of its pockets. Ultimately, it's other ratepayers who are subsidizing the grow houses taking advantage of the program.
In a recent e-mail to the Times-Standard, Ehlers said PG&E has filed a request with the public utilities commission looking to make some changes to the CARE program aimed at reining in abuse.
Specifically, Ehlers said PG&E is seeking to mandate that households with monthly usage levels four to six times higher than the average household be required to verify their reported income. In the proposal, these high-usage CARE program customers would also be forced to enroll in PG&E's Energy Savings Assistance Program, which requires in-home audits to help customers lower their energy usage.
Ehlers said PG&E has also asked the commission to deem customers with usage levels greater than six times that of the average household ineligible for the CARE program.
”Per studies cited in PG&E's testimony, this level of usage is not possible for a truly eligible residential household, and therefore they should be removed,” Ehlers said.
While Ehlers said PG&E filed documents requesting the changes with the public utilities commission in May, she did not mention them when interviewed for the Times-Standard article that ran earlier this month. At that time, she said the company's primary concern was making sure its employees are safe and not thrust into the law enforcement role of having to investigate potentially criminal behavior. Further, Ehlers said at the time that customer privacy issues trumped the need to look into high rates of electricity usage by CARE program homes.
”We take the expectation of privacy very seriously,” she said. “If there is a (electric) load increase, it would be inappropriate for us to investigate that.”
Somewhere along the line, it seems, PG&E has had a change of heart.
Susan Carothers, a spokeswoman with the California Public Utilities Commission, couldn't confirm that PG&E's requests to reform the CARE program are on file with the commission, but she spoke generally about the process proposed changes to the CARE program would undergo. First, she said the proposals are assigned to an administrative law judge and a commissioner for review and, if deemed necessary, the holding of public participation hearings and a call for public comments. After gaining input and researching the issue, the judge would write a proposed decision that would come before the full commission for a vote.
Carothers said public input is always encouraged, and said anyone wanting to weigh in on the topic of the CARE program should e-mail their comments to [email protected] or mail them to Attention: Public Advisor, CPUC, 505 Van Ness Ave., San Francisco, CA 94102.
North Coast Assemblyman Wesley Chesbro, D-Arcata, said he's been in contact with both the public utilities commission and PG&E in recent weeks to discuss various ways to bring abuse of the CARE program to a halt. Chesbro said the conversations were spurred by the previous Times-Standard article.
”The extreme use documented in the article really justifies us trying to determine what is a reasonable level for the public to subsidize,” Chesbro said, adding that he is working to ensure the public utilities commission has the statutory authority to make whatever changes are needed to rein in abuse of the program.
News of PG&E's proposed changes was welcomed at the Arcata Police Department.
”It's certainly a step in the right direction,” Chapman said.
Chapman said he'd like to see the company go further, doing a complete audit of the CARE program to ensure that all who are reaping its benefits are truly eligible.
”People who are eligible for the CARE program need to show proof of eligibility, just like we do for any other public assistance program,” he said. “I appreciate they're taking steps in the right direction but, to me, there needs to be more. To me, this is a Band-Aid on a much bigger wound than a Band-Aid can hold.”
Ehlers said there is not specific timeframe under which the public utilities commission has to take action on PG&E's request, but she said the company anticipates a decision by mid-2012.
Thadeus Greenson can be reached at 441-0509 or [email protected].
Copyright 2012 Eureka Times-Standard. All rights reserved.
http://www.times-standard.com/ci_19176562?IADID=Search-www.times-standard.com-www.times-standard.com
PG&E seeks reform in CARE program, looks to rein in abuse of low-income rates by pot growers
Thadeus Greenson/The Times-Standardtimes-standard.com/
Posted: 10/23/2011 02:18:22 AM PDT
Pacific Gas and Electric Co. is asking the California Public Utilities Commission to authorize changes to its discount electric rate program for low-income households -- a program that law enforcement officials recently criticized as rife with abuse by indoor marijuana grow operations.
”Our intention is not to remove the discount from those who are truly eligible, but rather ensure that those customers who either no longer need the discount or are taking unwarranted advantage of it are moved off as quickly as possible,” said PG&E spokeswoman Brandi Ehlers in an e-mail to the Times-Standard.
The public utilities commission requires all four of the state's major power companies to offer a subsidized rate program for low-income households. PG&E's version, the California Alternate Rates for Energy, or CARE, program, offers qualifying households discounts of at least 20 percent that are subsidized through an almost 5 percent fee on the bills of ratepayers who don't qualify as low-income.
As recently reported in the Times-Standard, the program is intended to help low-income families keep the lights on but is being widely abused by indoor marijuana growing operations that make large profits and gobble up huge amounts of electricity.
Arcata Police Chief Tom Chapman said that more than 70 percent of the grow houses searched by his department in the past two years have been utilizing the CARE program.
In one recently prosecuted case, a house on the 700 block of Fickle Hill was found to have received an almost 70 percent discount on its $1,500 electric bill as it used 4,676 kilowatt hours of electricity in December 2010 -- an amount roughly 10 times the average monthly consumption of a Humboldt County household.
When officers searched the house in February, they reported finding more than $34,000 in cash, snowboards, mountain bikes and a flat screen television -- not items found in the typical low-income household.
That's just one of many examples. There was the house on Cedar Drive, where officers found about 500 growing marijuana plants and PG&E records indicating the place drew about 5,757 kilowatt hours of electricity in a one-month period but paid just $546 of an $1,850 bill, the balance subsidized through other ratepayers under the CARE program.
Then there was the most egregious recent example, a home on California Avenue that Chapman said was growing about 700 plants. In a one-month period, Chapman said the house used 14,501 kilowatt hours of electricity, paying $604 of a bill that would have cost a non-CARE customer almost $2,500.
Part of the reason the program is widely abused, according to officials, is the fact that PG&E, per the guidelines outlined by the public utilities commission, allows households to self-report their eligibility for the program, doing subsequent income verifications on only 11 percent of applicants. There's also no cap on the amount of subsidized electricity a household enrolled in the program can consume, making it an attractive option for marijuana growers looking to lower their bills and increase their profits.
In the previous Times-Standard story, Chapman said PG&E simply has no incentive to regulate the program because it's revenue neutral for the company, meaning the discounts aren't coming out of its pockets. Ultimately, it's other ratepayers who are subsidizing the grow houses taking advantage of the program.
In a recent e-mail to the Times-Standard, Ehlers said PG&E has filed a request with the public utilities commission looking to make some changes to the CARE program aimed at reining in abuse.
Specifically, Ehlers said PG&E is seeking to mandate that households with monthly usage levels four to six times higher than the average household be required to verify their reported income. In the proposal, these high-usage CARE program customers would also be forced to enroll in PG&E's Energy Savings Assistance Program, which requires in-home audits to help customers lower their energy usage.
Ehlers said PG&E has also asked the commission to deem customers with usage levels greater than six times that of the average household ineligible for the CARE program.
”Per studies cited in PG&E's testimony, this level of usage is not possible for a truly eligible residential household, and therefore they should be removed,” Ehlers said.
While Ehlers said PG&E filed documents requesting the changes with the public utilities commission in May, she did not mention them when interviewed for the Times-Standard article that ran earlier this month. At that time, she said the company's primary concern was making sure its employees are safe and not thrust into the law enforcement role of having to investigate potentially criminal behavior. Further, Ehlers said at the time that customer privacy issues trumped the need to look into high rates of electricity usage by CARE program homes.
”We take the expectation of privacy very seriously,” she said. “If there is a (electric) load increase, it would be inappropriate for us to investigate that.”
Somewhere along the line, it seems, PG&E has had a change of heart.
Susan Carothers, a spokeswoman with the California Public Utilities Commission, couldn't confirm that PG&E's requests to reform the CARE program are on file with the commission, but she spoke generally about the process proposed changes to the CARE program would undergo. First, she said the proposals are assigned to an administrative law judge and a commissioner for review and, if deemed necessary, the holding of public participation hearings and a call for public comments. After gaining input and researching the issue, the judge would write a proposed decision that would come before the full commission for a vote.
Carothers said public input is always encouraged, and said anyone wanting to weigh in on the topic of the CARE program should e-mail their comments to [email protected] or mail them to Attention: Public Advisor, CPUC, 505 Van Ness Ave., San Francisco, CA 94102.
North Coast Assemblyman Wesley Chesbro, D-Arcata, said he's been in contact with both the public utilities commission and PG&E in recent weeks to discuss various ways to bring abuse of the CARE program to a halt. Chesbro said the conversations were spurred by the previous Times-Standard article.
”The extreme use documented in the article really justifies us trying to determine what is a reasonable level for the public to subsidize,” Chesbro said, adding that he is working to ensure the public utilities commission has the statutory authority to make whatever changes are needed to rein in abuse of the program.
News of PG&E's proposed changes was welcomed at the Arcata Police Department.
”It's certainly a step in the right direction,” Chapman said.
Chapman said he'd like to see the company go further, doing a complete audit of the CARE program to ensure that all who are reaping its benefits are truly eligible.
”People who are eligible for the CARE program need to show proof of eligibility, just like we do for any other public assistance program,” he said. “I appreciate they're taking steps in the right direction but, to me, there needs to be more. To me, this is a Band-Aid on a much bigger wound than a Band-Aid can hold.”
Ehlers said there is not specific timeframe under which the public utilities commission has to take action on PG&E's request, but she said the company anticipates a decision by mid-2012.
Thadeus Greenson can be reached at 441-0509 or [email protected].
Copyright 2012 Eureka Times-Standard. All rights reserved.
S
SeaMaiden
It's been a few years since I've seen the numbers, but California is, to the best of my knowledge, STILL one of the most energy-efficient states in the entire union. According to this article we rank 4th in the nation for energy efficiency: http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/energy-myths1.html
The reason why California power suppliers must use rolling black/brownouts is because we don't produce much electricity here in the state, we buy quite a lot of it from other states. "We" can thank California voters for this situation. This scenario is what allowed SDG&E, et alia, to enter into a price fixing scheme back in the 90s.
Also, again as I understand it, the grid is actually multiple grids.
Ooo! I found a neat info-graphic on NPR.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=110997398
Good highlight/detail from SeaMaiden and senorSloth
Folks - Fact: This type of tech has been deployed nationwide since at least the early 90s, into all parts of the grid- skyscrapers to tundra. Data from transceivers of several types (landline, cel, radio-truck/line-of-sight; and nowadays - HomePlug/etc...) Old hat, just not well-known.
Humble opinion: (I know, it sounds waay too meta-physical) I believe an unbroken chain of Karmic thoughts and actions combined with this type of free-flowing information is probably Our best friend in the search for what will set this all free.
Folks - Fact: This type of tech has been deployed nationwide since at least the early 90s, into all parts of the grid- skyscrapers to tundra. Data from transceivers of several types (landline, cel, radio-truck/line-of-sight; and nowadays - HomePlug/etc...) Old hat, just not well-known.
Humble opinion: (I know, it sounds waay too meta-physical) I believe an unbroken chain of Karmic thoughts and actions combined with this type of free-flowing information is probably Our best friend in the search for what will set this all free.
joedogsong
Member
In a lot of places it boils down to continued activism in keeping the drive alive in the political arena of voting in Medical marijuana advocates into political office. Top to bottom, sheriffs to presidents.
We need to find out what these people running stand for and then take action at the polls. Of course they could all be liars....
We need to find out what these people running stand for and then take action at the polls. Of course they could all be liars....
P
PermaBuzz
dp
Well now they want to make it a cashless society LOL ffs if that don't beat all ,,,no cash just to beat the dealers I guess lol.. Nevermind the fact that the bank/Gov is the biggest dealer rip off artist I have ever run into bar none WOW are we ever getting played by the GOVERNMENT WE are ELECTING IN isn't that a BITCH!!!! Oh yeah big brother is definately watching lol make no mistake about that one everyway they can they watch cause it's their JOB lol.. stay safe headband 707
Not in Canada if you go over 4x1000 watt lights you will get a knock at your door that just might cost you $5000.00 big ones and that is one big ouch for some.. stay safe headband 707
