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Wild Ruderalis from Austria
- Thread starter spontanea
- Start date
I should also mention that in this particular population the seeds are incredibly hard to get to germinate, i have never seen such a strong and complex dormancy : seeds just won't germinate. After trying different ways to bypass the dormancy I have had very little success <10% although they are all viable (they look healthy when you cut them in half). If someone has any advice on this point I would be gratefull. By the way I will try to make some pictures of the seeds because they are realy beautiful and some look even more unusual then the plants themselves...
First, have a look in HERE.
Seeds from non-cultivated populations (e.g. feral, 'ruderalis', and wild cannabis in the Himalayas) tend to germinate not all at once but over a large period of time (all between a few weeks and several years) to guarantee best survival of the species.
Another factor increasing dormancy is seed ripeness. Take only those with a dried calyx. Dry the seeds well for a few weeks. You could try vernalisation (few weeks in the fridge), although hemp usually doesn't react to that.
Another possibility is to put them in water for a day and then place them in the fridge for a second day.
Gently and slightly pre-crack (teeth work better than fingernails
) the seed shell if nothing happens after 2-3 days.
Use gibberellins (GA3); low ppm, to be tested, narrow active concentration range (too high and RIP or at least hermies).
Either wash seeds with 3% hydrogen peroxide for a few minutes or better soak seeds in diluted H2O2 (~0.03%). To reduce negative effects and increase positive ones, mix with potassium nitrate/nitrite (~50 mg/l; nitroprusside sodium would be better, but who apart myself has that at home?), glutamate (~0.01%), and/or ethephon or any other ethylene precursor (0.1-1 ppm).
Seeds from non-cultivated populations (e.g. feral, 'ruderalis', and wild cannabis in the Himalayas) tend to germinate not all at once but over a large period of time (all between a few weeks and several years) to guarantee best survival of the species.
Another factor increasing dormancy is seed ripeness. Take only those with a dried calyx. Dry the seeds well for a few weeks. You could try vernalisation (few weeks in the fridge), although hemp usually doesn't react to that.
Another possibility is to put them in water for a day and then place them in the fridge for a second day.
Gently and slightly pre-crack (teeth work better than fingernails
) the seed shell if nothing happens after 2-3 days.Use gibberellins (GA3); low ppm, to be tested, narrow active concentration range (too high and RIP or at least hermies).
Either wash seeds with 3% hydrogen peroxide for a few minutes or better soak seeds in diluted H2O2 (~0.03%). To reduce negative effects and increase positive ones, mix with potassium nitrate/nitrite (~50 mg/l; nitroprusside sodium would be better, but who apart myself has that at home?), glutamate (~0.01%), and/or ethephon or any other ethylene precursor (0.1-1 ppm).
The seeds have an inner clock that is pretty damn accurate, tried everything from ethylene to deep freezing. Then in April after almost having given up they suddenly started sprouting everywhere. Not even freezing would fool them
Early september is when I picked the seeds, so six to seven months until they're good to go.
Thx only ornamentals, the seeds are ripe, the plants were completely dry when I collected them, for me the temperature treatement has worked a few times but it fails most of the time. Without treatement none of them germinates. I will try chemical treatements (I will try to get my hands on some hormones). I have also tried opening the seeds before and after soaking but the embryo seems dormant too and it is very hard to open them they have a much thicker shell than "usual" strains.
And thule, yes they have some sort of clock going on, I have only had a few germinations on 2-3 years old seeds, the seeds from this year have 0% germination. :s
And thule, yes they have some sort of clock going on, I have only had a few germinations on 2-3 years old seeds, the seeds from this year have 0% germination. :s
This is a killer thread, There is a ton of variation here! Usually with Landraces there are many phenos but not in the degree that you have seen, I would assume there has been some "contamination" in terms of the mixing of genetics.
I would definitely breed with the "classic pheno" seems very early with the ability of heavy outdoor bud production.
BT
I would definitely breed with the "classic pheno" seems very early with the ability of heavy outdoor bud production.
BT
I have some which do the same, even if the seeds are opened, they won't grow. All the treatments increased the germination rate from 0% to 50%.
Forgot to tell you before regarding thick shells: sand them. I always take a dozen seeds and a tea spoon full of sand and rub them in my palm until the outer layer is filed off. Thereby, you give weak seeds a better chance but don't risk infections like with pre-cracking.
spontanea,
Do you have seeds of any of the presumed autoflowering wild plants?
I would like to DNA test them. They do not need to germinate just be mature.
If you take a plant that is presumed seedless as some you say were, dry it and run the plant through a seed sieve I bet you might find one. I have never found a Cannabis plant I could not make seeds on. Did you save a leaf of any of the seedless plant or plants? I could DNA test that also.
All the best,
-SamS
Do you have seeds of any of the presumed autoflowering wild plants?
I would like to DNA test them. They do not need to germinate just be mature.
If you take a plant that is presumed seedless as some you say were, dry it and run the plant through a seed sieve I bet you might find one. I have never found a Cannabis plant I could not make seeds on. Did you save a leaf of any of the seedless plant or plants? I could DNA test that also.
All the best,
-SamS
hey again,
@Blynx : yes it was set to privat
Can you see them now?
@Rinse : there is everything in this population, but most of them are not realy potent, although some of them gave me some realy weird stoned sensation... The problem is there is as many males as there is females so they are loaded with seeds and it is not very tasty even after removing the seeds, there is only "peels" of buds left but I have found some sterile plants without any seeds (they have much larger buds than the fertile ones):
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=40604&pictureid=961258&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
or some or semi sterile with few seeds (like the first pic of first post) and some of them have very unusual tastes...
Here is another one with a weird pheno it also has the autoflowering gene as it already has seeds in june :
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=40604&pictureid=1276464&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
more next time
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SoufLondon
Active member
This is a very interesting thread. I wish i could come and take a look for myself, you have a very special field there!
As for germinating the seeds, i think you have the best advice from OO. All i could add is that you should try and synthesise their natural environment as much as possible. Afterall, they have evolved & adapted to work outside in that area.
Perhaps take some of the soil from that field and try to germinate them in that? Also perhaps you might consider growing some of the other local flora with the cannabis?
This is a great thread, and i wish you the best of luck!
As for germinating the seeds, i think you have the best advice from OO. All i could add is that you should try and synthesise their natural environment as much as possible. Afterall, they have evolved & adapted to work outside in that area.
Perhaps take some of the soil from that field and try to germinate them in that? Also perhaps you might consider growing some of the other local flora with the cannabis?
This is a great thread, and i wish you the best of luck!
@Sam_Skunkman : Yes I would like to participate in your study and might have some very relevant samples, unfortunately I didn't take any seeds from the autoflowering plants as in terms of autoflower-breeding it is better to use existing hybrids but if it is not to late I could collect some next june. Is there a deadline or is it a long term project?
About the seedless plants I had different types : but a few of them where probably sterile in some way as I found less than 5 seeds on each of them but not viable (those white hollow seeds). Anyway I will PM you when I have 50 posts.
@SoufLondon Using the natural condition sure works but it would be preferable to apply artificial methods for breeding, having more generations a year and "breed away" the dormancy would be helpful too. And as you said, I realy value the advices from OO, and many others on this forum.
About the seedless plants I had different types : but a few of them where probably sterile in some way as I found less than 5 seeds on each of them but not viable (those white hollow seeds). Anyway I will PM you when I have 50 posts.
@SoufLondon Using the natural condition sure works but it would be preferable to apply artificial methods for breeding, having more generations a year and "breed away" the dormancy would be helpful too. And as you said, I realy value the advices from OO, and many others on this forum.
I want them I do not have much interest in the hybrids. Please PM me when you can.
-SamS
-SamS
E
Eye
Sam_Skunkman while you're at it can you please compare this presumed "Austrian" landrace to the typical Hungarian landraces such as Tiborszallasi, Tisza, Szarvasi, Kompolti, Lipko, CannaKomp, Fibrol, ..... ?
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a typical Hungarian landrace.
One should not forget that this region was part of Hungary not too long ago.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a typical Hungarian landrace.
One should not forget that this region was part of Hungary not too long ago.
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Just as a small side note: Tisza, Szarvasi, and Fibrol are modern monoecious hybrids, Lipko is a female predominant hybrid, and Kompolti is a legendary hybrid based on the Fleischmann hemp, an Italian cultivar. I couldn't find any information on CannaKomp other than it's a dioecious variety. That leaves Tiborszallasi as sole Hungarian land race (likely used in one or the other above mentioned hybrid)
.This varieties are all from the Southern ecotype. Tiborszallasi is medium tall with medium-late flowering onset and requires rather high temperatures.
On the other hand, Austria and other countries at similar latitude have either hybrids of different ecotypes or varieties from the Central European ecotypes...
EDIT: Forgot to mention, IIRC the Southern ecotypes have rather broad leaflets whereas the Austrian one seems to have rather narrow ones.
Just my two cents
.
flameninja
Active member
Cool find did you collect plenty of seed?
eace:
did you collect plenty of seed?eace:
