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Why plant clones aren't identical.......

C

c-ray

from http://www.dark-field.com/detail.asp?nid=22

Embryo containing the information of the whole organism
7/24/2008

The Outline of the ECIWO Theory

Yingqing Zhang, Professor
(ECIWO Biology Institute, Shandong University, Jinan, Shandong 250100, P. R. China)
 

Do various organs or various relatively independent parts of the plant have the same essence? It also can say, are branches, leaves, leaflets, leaf lobes, veins, leaf bunches, flowers, calyxes, petals, carpels, stamens, pollens, roots, cells etc. all the same in essence? This is an important problem of universal significance in botany.

Previous studies have not solved the problem. For example, Goethe believed various organs of the plant are all the metamorphosis of the leaf. But Bower thought that leaves are secondary and it is branches that are the basic units of the plant. Though these results are very useful to explain the evolution among some organs, the same essence of all organs of the plant has not been found. However, I find that each of various organs or various relatively independent parts of the plant is a specialized new individual being both at a certain stage of its own ontogenesis and a component of the plant, and discover the essential unity of various organs of the plant. It provides a completely new view of the plant for understanding anew multitudinous problems in botany, and opens a way for directionally changing the characters of the plant according to human needs.

In the past, the term Embryo meant a new individual at the early stage of ontogenesis, namely, the young. However, I use the term Embryo in wide sense and it means generally a new individual that may be at every stage of ontogenesis, no matter whether it is at early, middle or late stage. For example, the zygote can be regarded as a embryo at the earliest stage of ontogenesis, and adult can be regarded as a embryo at the very late stage of ontogenesis. I have put forward the view that an organism not only develops from an embryo but also is composed of multitudinous embryos at various levels below the whole organism. An embryo composing the organism has three characteristics: 1, it lives in the parent body and is a component of the parent body; 2, it is specialized and performs a certain function in the organism to serve the whole; 3, it is at a certain stage of its own ontogenesis, and in many cases, it cannot continue to develop into an independent adult because the embryo is specialized and the whole organism inhibits its development. I have named such an embryo an ECIWO(an acronym for Embryo Containing the Information of the Whole Organism). The definition of the ECIWO is a specialized embryo being both at a certain stage of its own ontogenesis and a component of the whole organism.

This paper will prove that various organs or various relatively independent parts of a plant, such as branches, leaves, leaflets, leaf lobes, veins, leaf bunches, flowers, calyxes, petals, carpels, stamens, pollens, roots, metamorphosis branches and leaves, cells, etc. are all ECIWOs. This paper will found the plant ECIWO theory and also explain anew the nature of the development and the reason for producing stipuls, prophylls of a branch and compound, lobose, or opposite leaves.

To sum up, the plant ECIWO theory has the following key points.

① An ECIWO is a specialized embryo being both at a certain stage of development and a component of the whole plant. An ECIWO is a relatively independent new individual first, and then it may be the component of the plant. The condition that a part of a plant may be an ECIWO is that the part has relatively clear boundaries to its surrounding parts in structure and function, so it can relatively be isolated from other parts. In a plant, any relatively independent part with relatively clear boundaries to its surrounding parts in structure and function is an ECIWO.

② The autonomous development of an ECIWO is the ontogenesis of the ECIWO as a relatively independent new individual. In a plant, each stage of the autonomous development of an ECIWO has its corresponding stage in the ontogenesis of the plant. An ECIWO at a certain stage of the autonomous development rough recapitulates the course from the early stage to the corresponding stage of the ontogenesis of the plant, and the ECIWO is similar in general character marks to the plant at the corresponding stage of the ontogenesis. ECIWOs may have different degrees of autonomous development and may also have different directions and different degrees of specialization, so they may have the ability of boundless metamorphoses and can become different organs and parts of the plant.

③ A plant is composed of multiplicate ECIWOs at different stages of development and with different specialization. A certain ECIWO can be divided into many ECIWOs of lower levels, and many ECIWOs can compose an ECIWO of a higher level. In a multi cellular plant, there exist multiple ECIWOs contained grade by grade between the level of the whole plant and the cell level, and the whole plant is the ECIWO whose developmental degree is the highest, and a single somatic cell is an ECIWO whose developmental degree is the lowest. They are both the special cases of the ECIWO. In a plant, there exist substance changes among different ECIWOs, and ECIWOs can coordinate each other and serve the whole plant.

④ The nature of the development of the plant is the ECIWO multiplication, the respective development of ECIWOs and the respective specialization of ECIWOs. In the past, the cell theory has discovered the unity among different cells, but it can not solve the problem of the unity of different organs above the cell level. However, the plant ECIWO theory has discovered that the various organs or the various relatively independent parts of each level from the cell to the whole plant are all ECIWOs and all have essential unity. The cell is only one kind of ECIWOs, so the cell theory of the plant has been contained by the plant ECIWO theory. The totipotency of the somatic cell is the basis of the existence of the ECIWO. Owing to the semiconservative replication of DNA and the mitosis of cells, in general, a somatic cell has the same whole set of genes as the zygote. In artificial medium, the somatic cell separated from the plant may develop into a new individual; but in thebody of the parent itself, namely the natural medium, the somatic cell that is not separated from the plant may also develop to a new individual and may specialize in the development course, so that any relatively independent part can become a specialized embryo at a certain stage of development, namely, an ECIWO. In addition, there is a clear and major difference between the plant ECIWO theory and the totipotency theory of the somatic cell. The latter points out that the somatic cell has the latent ability to develop to a new individual, while the former points out that it is a fact that the somatic cell develops to anew individual in the natural plant itself. The totipotency theory of the somatic cell alone can not explain the nature of various organs or relatively independent parts of the plant, and can not explain the unity and the variety of various organs or various relatively independent parts of the plant either.

The plant ECIWO theory discovers that a plant consists of symbiotic and multiple ECIWOs. And different parts of a plant are the same in essence, namely, they are all ECIWOs. So, the theory has provided a completely new view of the plant. This may be a fundamental and conceptual change for botany, so it will exert important influence on various theoretical and applied fields related to plants. For an example, an ECIWO is a new individual in essence, so it can have both heredity and variability, and the variability is determined to a great extent by the certain character of the position where the ECIWO lives in the parent, and the variability in the progeny is towards increasing the certain character of the position of the parent. So, that the ECIWO at the certain position is used as the reproduce material may set off the directive variation. About this problem, I have advanced the theory of the dynamic equilibrium between cDNA retrojoining and loss in the genome, the theory of ECIWO localized seed selection being effective, the method of the ECIWO localized seed selection and the theory of the trans-geno combination for the strength of the expected character based on the ECIWO theory. The method of the ECIWO localized seed selection has been used successfully in the fields of agriculture, horticulture, plant tissue culture etc.16 The plant ECIWO theory also has a general biological significance. It will greatly help people to understand and accept the general ECIWO theory that the general organism including the human body and other animals is composed of ECIWOs.
 

Tom Hill

Active member
Veteran
not something one can bring to bear with any regularity, unworthy of pursuit. Nature is what we can control, to this very day, we hopelessly scramble, fruitlessly, with nurture. Forget about that crap let's influence what we may, while we can. Ie I can fuck shit to hell, if I want. but I can not bring magic, nor can you, inside of any parameters. Therefore, nature wins, the conversation was over before it started.
 

Tom Hill

Active member
Veteran
C-ray, if nurture matters and I mean at all, then that too, in all of it's entirety, ultimately, and to which or x degree, is under the absolute control of nature, ie genetics, this my friend, is the very and absolute bottom of the line, period. Nobody who understands what's happening can possibly disagree, it's positively unfathomable.
 

Tom Hill

Active member
Veteran
ie you may be able to alter this or that via nurture, but the degree of which you may do so is absolutely under the full control of nature/genotype, this is a given. As stated previously, the conversation was over before it started. =T
 
C

c-ray

sounds like you've never heard of the work of Yingqing Zhang.. you should check it out, it's a real game changer.. (has nothing to do with nurture btw)
 

Tom Hill

Active member
Veteran
anything and everything referring to the plant during growth, falls under the category of nurture.
 

Adze

Member
Nurture & nature

Nurture & nature

After rereading post #22 a few times, it seems reversed. Or, I may finally have lost my mind altogether.
 
check dansbuds entry in the yogurt cup challenge
got a crinkley leaf mutation thats a considerble drift from its mother that he has pics of ... it happens, not to all strains in all conditions, but genetic drift happens 4sure

I was wondering if that was the plants way of responding to stress - possibly from rootbound? The larger flowered clones of the same cut in full-sized pots did not show the mutation express itself.
 

Avinash.miles

Caregiver Extraordinaire
Moderator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
could be stress or a mutation, seems 2b flowering ok tho....& not growing normal leaves just more krinkles.

somewhat related to this, fasciation mutation, just started a thread devoted to fasciation pics of cannabis and any other plants showing fasciation. i got many clones of the drizella, only one showed the fasciation mutation, only 1 and they were all treated the same.

fasciation mutations:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=251782
 
C

c-ray

The Bioholographic law has many applications to the entire field of biology. It can tell you that seeds located on different parts of a plant have differing genetic properties, that these properties are not random.

Knowing this, a wheat breeder can develop a fine new wheat variety in only 4 years, rather than the usual 10 to 12 years. Also old “worn out” varieties can be rejuvenated to the vigor of the first original cross.
..
 
C

c-ray

no it's from Yingqing Zhang, the godfather of ECIWO biology

it is amazing how much good science is not available to the english speaking world.. I learned italian a few years ago just so I could access some very interesting agriculture books only available in that language,.. and thus it changed my life, views and MO in a dramatic way, down the rabbit hole and no way to go but onwards and upwards..
 
A

Alone

Ive noticed that a plant grown from seed finishes 1 week earlier than the clone from that plant, on a few different strains. Also noticed it starts with the cut chosen for cloning.

Alot of good points on this thread. So I wont go over something that was already said.

Ive noticed that a plant, when grown from seed, can have bottom side branches where one side will grow faster than the other side. I dont take the smaller, less vigorous side, for clones. I always use the bigger side for cuts and throw away the smaller sides until they start to stagger. (I top at the first stagger point if keeping for a mom)

1 - This will help abit in the genetic drift department.
2 - This will help the cuts root faster, and grow more vigorously with bigger yields.
3 - A more even canopy as the cuts will all have about the same thickness and vigor.
 
C

c-ray

you are wise.. personally I try to only take cuts that are huge, from the upper canopy..
 
A

Alone

Heres some shots of the cuts rooting evenly. This is very important to take the cuts that are big and vigorous for cloning.

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