Why is my unflushed plant turning yellow and dying?

[maryjohn]

Maryjohn~

Are you going to try to reveg it?

Nah, but I have a clone. I don't think it suits my needs (clearly wants to be outside), but the high is nice and soothing. Not really meant to smoke raw. It's low yielding in terms of buds, but covered in trichomes with small heads. I read that meant something somewhere.

IMO we will see some very nice crosses soon.

 

[Stoned Crow]

Yeah, I hear you. But with reveging, it's best to give it a couple runs before you need to do it. Everything new I flower now is with the possibility of reveging. ATM, I don't do alot of my own clones, too many varieties of seeds to pop.

If your popping seeds with good soil, good light and good nutes, which you are doing, you're bound to come across something you don't want to live without, and if you're not doing clones, reveging is the answer.

I've only been reveging for a few runs now, and I'm running about a 50% success rate.

Another good thread .....SC

 

[OPT]

I too use this LC mix, and in the past I have also noticed some type of problem with what I thought was a mag/cal defiency. I will admit, I have not read every single post in this thread, but i do see you disagreeing quite a bit with Mistress. MaryJohn, do you know what has actually caused your plants to do this?

I would like to know because I am in the first week of my new grow op, and I specifically added greensand to my mix this time to try to help supplement this cal/mag defiency from happening. Not to mention I will use teas and liquid karma this time.

Obviously I'm not to worried about it yet, but i'd like to keep ahead of the norm, and prevent this before it starts. So, any ideas what it was then MJ?

OPT

 

[maryjohn]

It's not a problem OPT, I wrote the title to attract attention and a diverse set of views. Everybody likes to help. My true purpose is to start a conversation on flushing that incorporates the soil and plant biology everyone has been throwing around a bit haphazardly and often just incorrectly.

The plant is in its 8th week. It's just dying off. It started quite suddenly, over the past few days, and coincided with a fattening of the buds. Where this plant comes from, there is no need to live any longer than this. It is simply giving up.

To show that this is not because the soil is no longer able to support life, but because the change in photoperiod has triggered a series of changes, I will drop a clone in there of a different variety and grow it out. Even though there is only 3 gallons, I am predicting compost and a bit of bokashi from my kitchen and the normal EM treatment will see me through.

Fista - Deltas and other such areas that are highly fertilized on a regular basis are the exception, not the rule. Most of the world's cannabis lives in something quite light. In a race from seed in my garden, the lettuce I grow would probably smother it. But where lettuce might struggle, the MJ would scrap it out and form the right alliances to come out on top. I made that up as a hypothetical- not sure how lettuce and MJ interact. I'm not saying any soil is optimal for any plant if its organic - just that truly organic soil can accommodate a wider range of nutrient needs.

 

[Stoned Crow]

My true purpose is to start a conversation on flushing that incorporates the soil and plant biology everyone has been throwing around a bit haphazardly and often just incorrectly.

Exactly, do you think we should flush if you plan on reveging? My thought is that you shouldn't. If you plan on reveging, you should keep your plant as healthy as possible throughout the entire flower period.

Now, I know there are people out there who will jump on me and say "If the plant is green when you harverst, it will taste like shit!"

And my answer is, same as to the "pro flushers" - A good cure should make that concern disappear.

 

[maryjohn]

Stoned, I've only reveged once, and it was a cut very early in flower (long story involving the neighbors windowsill and the equinox). Weirdest thing ever, but it saved the genetics. Got five copies going now.

I'm not sure how I would approach things with reveging in my mind. Do you harvest a bit early? Do some strains become irredeemable by the time there is a decent harvest? Producing all that seedless bud is a big stress, but if you are telling me even a plant very late into harvest can reverse course with a lighting change, that is cool.

If you are adding nitrates to assist you in keeping things going, then using a long cure to burn off ammonia and get good smoke, all the while saving veg time, that's an interesting technique to consider. What's most efficient is not always obvious.

 

[Weird Jimmy]

awesome thread. This is a great example of why I love this site. I really liked the posts from people trying to diagnose your "problems", lol.

I can't wait to see how the 2nd crop turns out. Are you going to post progress in this thread?

 

[maryjohn]

remind me if I don't.

the soil will have to sit for a month at least before the roots break down, so it's still unclear which plant will go in, now that I consider it. maybe even the skunk x haze, which is my only one and really important to me. My blue burmese are ready to go, and I have containers waiting.

 

[BurnOne]

Could it be you drowned them?
When you pull them up, check and see if the roots are brown. If so, you have root rot. Not common in LC's Mix but I see you have that water bottle in there. If the roots are white, I'm wrong.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Burn1

 

[Weird Jimmy]

btw, why don't you have an avatar? Let me make one for you, man. I kill my down time at work with photoshop and I've gotten pretty good at it. I made my avatar last week and got paid hourly to do it, lol!!! I'd be happy to make one for you.

 

[Stoned Crow]

That's what I'm wondering, like I said I'm only 50-50 on reveging, and I would like to be 100%

In my experience, I'm convinced that if you flush when you plan on reveging, you're cutting your odds big time. You're basically weakening your plant.

The best reveg job I've done was a Belladonna who froze at day 56 of flower, the temps adjusted, and I harvested at day 62. The plant looked dead at the time of harvest, but after harvest, I left the bottom (what looked dead) growth, trimmed the roots, and repotted with fresh soil in a smaller pot, and it lived. And, it's been such a great plant, definately one of my favorites.

My point is that if I would of starved it, it probably would not of reveged, I tried a couple other plants that were healthy at the time, and they didn't make it.

To me, the whole theory that a plant has to look dead when you harvest it doesn't make sense. A good cure should get rid of the compounds you don't want to smoke.

 

[maryjohn]

Burn, it's a trick thread, got you in my snare. They are barely drinking and barely getting water, and the little one is getting very light. I'm also simulating winter for them as best I can. Temps that would destroy my other plants. The scrogged mother did get some stem trauma with a box cutter, but I do that all the time. These pure afghani landrace ladies are finishing up in their 8th week, and suddenly fattening up and taking on a bluish/reddish hue as they yellow, erasing some disappointment I had in the strain. and I think I may let them go even longer, having read an unconfirmed rumor that some afghani guys do that in the town the seeds are named for.

I hope to show it had nothing to do with running out of nutes.

I've been flushing from day 1. That must be what it is.

Jimmy, I would be honored!

 

[Stoned Crow]

If you are adding nitrates to assist you in keeping things going, then using a long cure to burn off ammonia and get good smoke, all the while saving veg time, that's an interesting technique to consider. What's most efficient is not always obvious.

I'm not sure what you mean by "nitrates". I do my best to use organic ingredients. Mostly bat guanos, kelp, EWC and (unfortunately) fish products.

 

[maryjohn]

I basically mean plant available N. When you reveg you are going beyond nature's intentions, in a pretty neat way I think. I imagine the guano helps you pull that off but is not normally reccommended? I dunno, I really don't know enough about reveging to talk ineligently with you.

It is truly a matter of taste in the end, not dogma, but the people want to see a yellowed plant and I guess short cure times? I don't really get it, but the idea is my soil is depleted according to that logic and should not support another grow. I want to reiterate that in reality I could care less if the plants yellow, and like stoned, if I don't like a harvest I just cure it longer. I've had plenty of harsh smoke off yellow plants, by the way. I bet most readers have as well, and smooth green plants, too.

That will make 5-6 months of growing without adding blood or manures, and since verdant has me by the balls, no fish juice.

 

[Weird Jimmy]

It's amazing how much organic gardening is akin to keeping a salt water aquarium. The processes and terminology are identical.

 

[OPT]

I've always read that the harshness of smoke could be due to overwhelming concentrations of chemical fertilizers in the soil, OR simply, the choloraphyl left in the leaves and buds.

People always suggest flushing not only the last 2 weeks of a plants life cycle, but also periodically throughout the grow when using chemical ferts. But, seeing as this is organic style of going about things, is this the case? I don't believe so.

I'm a believer in pot that is harsh, was either, not dried properly, and/or not cured right. Curing bud breaks down the chloraphly slowly which reduces that "green" taste, which in my opinion, isn't necessarly harsh, but tastes bad.

Letting dope get too dry on the other hand can and will lead to harsh, non desirable smoke.

I think people need to, myself included because i'm no expert, learn how to not only properly dry and cure there reefer, but learn how to store it correctly.

OPT

 

[OPT]

Maryjohn,

By the way, when using the LC mix, were there any potential nutrient problems that were found by you throughout that entire grow?

OPT

 

[maryjohn]

Maryjohn,

By the way, when using the LC mix, were there any potential nutrient problems that were found by you throughout that entire grow?

OPT

None whatsoever. My previous run had problems which verdant properly diagnosed as root binding

I did use fish hydrolysate 3 times. Wait, 2 times? Can't remember.

I had no deficiencies at any time, but one can't really talk about standard LC mix, since it calls for compost, which varies wildly and is the most crucial component. All the other components can be substituted. My compost is made from all kitchen scraps by worms in my basement. Best stuff on earth, fresh as it gets.

I also put a bit of biotone, used VonForne's trick of lining the bottom with EWC, top dressed EWC, and applied EWC slurry.

If I saw nute deficiencies in veg or early flower, I would check pot size first, followed by watering more regularly and less, then I would consider doing something.

 

[DARC MIND]

whether included dolomite lime or azomite, or not, still seems to be plant eating itself up becauser it wants more magnesium - which it requires in large amount during flower.
since calcium translocates @ slower rate then other heavy metals, foliar feeding cal permits plant to grow large flowers w/out drawing reserves from roots, which leads to lower leaves yellowing...

whether finishing or not, the leaves in the 2nd pic look to be deprived of magnesium &/or calcium... not desirable.
while plant is finishing up, leaves should still not be cupped, tips pointing downwards, nor concaving inwards @ edges...

the leaves should be stading up-right, neither cupped up, nor down, & flat, full of turgor pressure making them open & accepting most light energy... & simultaneously expelling water into air... harder to do when leaves are cupped & in not so good health...

just my 2 cents….
diagnosing nutrient disorders of most plants by visual symptoms alone, is extremely difficult IMO. It is best to relay on both, tissue and soil analysis then opinions based on photographs.

Yellowing of older leaves could be caused by a number of things: mag/cal, iron, root bond, plant running its course, depleted soil, pest/disease or both under or over watering; are just a few examples..
Before giving an opinion on what is causing the problem, one should ask many questions to narrow the cause to a few possibilities.
Being it being a landrace strain, growing in amended lc mix with dolomite, azomite and ewc..many may find it unlikely that deficiency is the problem alone..again maybe to small of container and or?

Good diagnosing are done with a systematic approach to problem solving, were knowledge of plants growth and development are key..

Cupping of leaves can be cause by lights being to close to plants (common with micro florescent grows) and ive seen it happened when the fan is pointed straight on the plant…
but I like you do too believe cal and mag are important mistress and I like that you advise foliar applying w/ them…I foliar with Epson salt and many of my ACT foliar tea’s consist of gypsum and EWC made with plenty of egg shells…
this is a prevention method mostly for my toms and peppers but my soil is the most important part of my nutrient cycling and feeding regimen…

 

[jmansweed]

Thanks for all the info guys................great thread