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Why are some strains harder to clone than others?
- Thread starter CannaBunkerMan
- Start date
How about trying a different cloning method?
WHY NOT DIRT?
GOOD OLD DIRT WORKS JUST FINE
HOW ABOUT SPHAGNUM MOSS?
WORKS JUST FINE
WHY NOT DIRT?
GOOD OLD DIRT WORKS JUST FINE
HOW ABOUT SPHAGNUM MOSS?
WORKS JUST FINE
This brings up a great point; if youve tried every method and still cant succeed, change one of your constants (the water source).
If you have to buy bottled water for clones, try it, 1 outta 50, id hate to see that mother.
localman
Member
I agree tap water can cause issue but if the medium you choose whatever that may be if that medium is kept at a constent temp of 75-80 ... they Will root .. dirt, perlite/verm, coco, rockwool (my fav) or Oasis cubes whatever u pick if your mother is unhealthy or not mature that will tend to fuck your % of success.. Healthy Mothers are the main issue.. secondly is Temp. . if you simply cut and pluck you should be seeing a better result the 5-10% .. at 14 days pull one out of the media and look at it is it black and soft or white and hard.. this will tell you alot about your probs..
sub dermal
Member
great goodness, i just dropped a good number of GC clones in my bubble cloner. guess i'll put some in pellets too, why the hell not...
my C4s have taken a dive...and my chem actually rooted weeks ago while just hangin out in a bottle of water (forgot about the cuts
if only it were all that easy...
my C4s have taken a dive...and my chem actually rooted weeks ago while just hangin out in a bottle of water (forgot about the cuts
if only it were all that easy...
sub dermal
Member
oops
CannabisPatient
Member
I like to use some seaweed additive a week to a week and a half before taking cuts. Something about the hormones and new growth.
Clipping cuts from the plant with scissors is fine, but cut them again with a new sharp razor blade before dipping. Scissors pinch the stems shut and close the capillaries.
Trimming a few of the biggest leaves in half is good to prevent dehydration and take food soarce as already said. Gently tear the leaf ends instead of cutting the leaves to trim. Tearing allows the break to occur along the cell walls while cutting slices through cell walls letting in pathogens and water out. Please make sure you bleach and scrub clean with each weekly water change. I try for 5.6-5.8pH for my aero cloner.
Happy Growing
Clipping cuts from the plant with scissors is fine, but cut them again with a new sharp razor blade before dipping. Scissors pinch the stems shut and close the capillaries.
Trimming a few of the biggest leaves in half is good to prevent dehydration and take food soarce as already said. Gently tear the leaf ends instead of cutting the leaves to trim. Tearing allows the break to occur along the cell walls while cutting slices through cell walls letting in pathogens and water out. Please make sure you bleach and scrub clean with each weekly water change. I try for 5.6-5.8pH for my aero cloner.
Happy Growing
It's so strange, I tried Calcium Hypochlorite (chlorine) as an additive as mentioned here:
Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link? - http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683
I got just about a hundred percent success. However, I tried the same thing with my latest batch of clones, and I've already lost half to stem rot. AHHHHHHHH!!!! I thought I found the secret, but now I'm having the same problems again. If I didn't change anything, why is this latest batch performing so poorly?
I think the health of the mom at the time of taking the cuttings is important, just like localman mentioned. It might even be the most important factor. Last batch my moms were growing vigorously. This time she might need a transplant again. I think that a younger mom with actively growing roots is easier to clone. The plant can keep on growing for a bit after the roots fill up the pot and become rootbound, but cloning at this point becomes difficult. I think I'm going to start transplanting, or replacing, moms every 6 months.
Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link? - http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683
I got just about a hundred percent success. However, I tried the same thing with my latest batch of clones, and I've already lost half to stem rot. AHHHHHHHH!!!! I thought I found the secret, but now I'm having the same problems again. If I didn't change anything, why is this latest batch performing so poorly?
I think the health of the mom at the time of taking the cuttings is important, just like localman mentioned. It might even be the most important factor. Last batch my moms were growing vigorously. This time she might need a transplant again. I think that a younger mom with actively growing roots is easier to clone. The plant can keep on growing for a bit after the roots fill up the pot and become rootbound, but cloning at this point becomes difficult. I think I'm going to start transplanting, or replacing, moms every 6 months.
Certain genetics seem to have a reduced ability to root , the more Blackberry expressed in a cross the slower it roots from what i have found , green clones consistantly faster and more reliable than true dark ones within the cross.
With the awkward ones have found that takeing clones in early flower around ten days in , they will root faster and better than when taken in veg.
Clone under 12/12 till roots just show , then into 20/4 or whatever veg hours you use , plant will overtake its sister that rooted slowly in veg and hung around and yellowed for weeks.
Any reveg twisting with the odd smooth edged leaf is minimal and soon lost , could be a problem with some borderline clones that have known issues of stability .
Many years ago i used an incredibly sharp tiny blade used for eye surgery to take a bunch of clones , many died and few rooted to my suprise.
Had possibly caused so little damage that the hormone system took ages to react to the cutting , now i apply a deliberate amount of damage with good results all round.
Could not clone in rockwool or rapidrooters if my life depended on it , still a touch of magic with the science.
With the awkward ones have found that takeing clones in early flower around ten days in , they will root faster and better than when taken in veg.
Clone under 12/12 till roots just show , then into 20/4 or whatever veg hours you use , plant will overtake its sister that rooted slowly in veg and hung around and yellowed for weeks.
Any reveg twisting with the odd smooth edged leaf is minimal and soon lost , could be a problem with some borderline clones that have known issues of stability .
Many years ago i used an incredibly sharp tiny blade used for eye surgery to take a bunch of clones , many died and few rooted to my suprise.
Had possibly caused so little damage that the hormone system took ages to react to the cutting , now i apply a deliberate amount of damage with good results all round.
Could not clone in rockwool or rapidrooters if my life depended on it , still a touch of magic with the science.
Re-evaluate your sterilization. I bet this is it. Plus, the health of the mom's is just a gimme. The chlorine should work, unless you have some chlorine resistant bacteria (which I highly doubt). One of the things that I do is when I take a cut from a mother, I put it into a pyrex tray of water almost immediately. I put the whole thing under water. Though, this water has a splash of chlorine added to it. This does two thing. It fully hydrates the cutting (full dunk), and it mildly sterilizes all surfaces of the cutting. Then I proceed to make my final 45 and my scarification under this water.
For the mothers, a root bound and/or unhealthy mother would definitely cause issues from my experience. For anyone who doesn't believe me try this. Next time you are veging plants (not mothers), take a cutting off one of the really vigorous shoots. Compare that cutting to another cutting from the mothers. You will see a huge difference. The one from an actively vegging plant that is vigorously growing will outperform.
See signature to vote for a cloning forum.
FYI. Rooting hormone helps with those hard to clone strains. Though, I use 1/4 the recommended dosage. Also, scarification just flat out works. Though, I have found if you make the scars too deep that it works against you. I will always scarify my cuttings moving forward.
Lastly, try this. Take your cloner machine and wash it in the dishwasher by itsself. Use Cascade dishwasher soap. Buy some REAL spring water in the bottle at the store. Try cloning in this. Even the water tray for dipping the cuttings that I described above, only use the bottled water. See if this makes your green crack root faster.
In my experience, Green Crack is harder to clone. Though, I can get them to root in 7 days.
Lastly, try this. Take your cloner machine and wash it in the dishwasher by itsself. Use Cascade dishwasher soap. Buy some REAL spring water in the bottle at the store. Try cloning in this. Even the water tray for dipping the cuttings that I described above, only use the bottled water. See if this makes your green crack root faster.
In my experience, Green Crack is harder to clone. Though, I can get them to root in 7 days.
Another thing to consider is this, how good was the chlorine you added the second time? If you got 100% before, this is a good sign. If you made the diluted chlorine water like in the thread, it will got bad over time. Especially if it's not in a sealed container. I would just ditch all the clones and rotted ones and start a whole new round. Make sure to sterilize everything in-between. Make a fresh batch of the chlorine solution.
... now i apply a deliberate amount of damage with good results all round.
Dang! Is that some kind of leather working tool or just old Spanish Inquisition technology? Did you run that thing up the stem to get those roots growing above the cut?
Think its a pinwheel for marking leather to be sewn , or possibly a bdsm toy.
Use it to punch dry rooting powder into the stem , most holes produce a root over several nodes , blade tip does the same , seven days consistantly to this stage
Run too hot or do too much damage and they die real fast , high 70,s and a dash of bleach or the fungicide in the rooting powder works relably for me.
Worse than a normal cut on thin walled hollow stems but leaf nodes can be vigorously stabbed.
These stem types seem to give me most problems , a 90 deg cut through the solid tissue at the centre of a node works best by experiment.
Have found that a bubbler is faster after a few weeks than at first , mine is disgusting haveing been just topped up with rainwater and not cleaned since september , think it would bubble without the pump , yet it still works perfectly against all common sense.
Use it to punch dry rooting powder into the stem , most holes produce a root over several nodes , blade tip does the same , seven days consistantly to this stage
Run too hot or do too much damage and they die real fast , high 70,s and a dash of bleach or the fungicide in the rooting powder works relably for me.
Worse than a normal cut on thin walled hollow stems but leaf nodes can be vigorously stabbed.
These stem types seem to give me most problems , a 90 deg cut through the solid tissue at the centre of a node works best by experiment.
Have found that a bubbler is faster after a few weeks than at first , mine is disgusting haveing been just topped up with rainwater and not cleaned since september , think it would bubble without the pump , yet it still works perfectly against all common sense.
G
growingcrazy
I think that water is playing the deciding factor in all of our tough luck cloning, mine included.
I have had a very difficult time cloning for the last 18 months, I moved to my current residence then. I just recently switched to spring water. Had 14 of 14 cuts root in my bubble cloner in less than 2 weeks. Also had 14 of 15 root in rapid rooters with clonex, also watered with spring water.
Both of those exact same methods were at less than 40% when watering them with my softened well water.
I have had a very difficult time cloning for the last 18 months, I moved to my current residence then. I just recently switched to spring water. Had 14 of 14 cuts root in my bubble cloner in less than 2 weeks. Also had 14 of 15 root in rapid rooters with clonex, also watered with spring water.
Both of those exact same methods were at less than 40% when watering them with my softened well water.
Water is the huge factor. It's sooooooooo underestimated how important it is.
P.S. I have used "fake" spring water before with terrible results. Later on I realized, after radomly reading the label, that it was water with minerals added for taste! lol Once I tried real spring water bam, 100% results. Time and time again bottle spring water works 100%. This is what led me to working with chlorine to fix my water.
I always add the chlorine. Never any slime, never any issues.
Anyone struggling with cloning, stop using your water. Start with absolutely clean equipment that hasn't been exposed to your water. This is why I suggest using a dishwasher. I even put the airstones in the dishwasher! Cascade dishwasher soap + the high temps of a dishwasher will kill anything living on your equipment. Once clean, try store bought spring water. Once you see results you will see for your own eyes that your water has issues. Then you can make the decision of buying water for cloning or fixing your water with one of the methods (mine being chlorine).
Good luck.
I had a WW strain a few years ago that made me rethink my cloning methods! Researched my but off and still had no luck! Well 40% luck with this strain. I tried RR, soil, moss and basicly anything else i could find on the net! My solution was real ez! I already had an ezcloner that rooted most anything besides my WW strain in 14 day i had roots showing! Then Bam things changed! I remember reading somewhere that by adding 1 cup on EWCT to your EZ you can let the temps run a little higher! I had added a cup of tea to my cloner the week before and was ready to change out my water and disaster struck! A friend of mine was hit by a drunk driver and I did not get a chance to change out the water in my cloner like I always did! 5 days later I returned to my grow room(son had been taking care of it) thinking well 60 clones are dead and I have to redo them! To my surprise all 60 had roots 6 inches long roots and the plants had new growth! Now to make a long story short I changed my thinking on how to clone! I now only change my solution maybe once every 3-4 weeks while adding 1 cup on ewct every 7-8 days! 100% cloning rate since then! So you might wanna try this method! Now to make it easier:
Tap water
1 cup ewct every week
clonex gel as a dip
change solution every 3 weeks!
Clean nozzles as needed
To clean your cloner
fresh tap water (cold)
1 cap of bleach
run for 15 mins
replace water rinse for 15 mins
clean nozzles
add new solution!!
I do have an extra top so that makes life so much easier!
Hope this helps! Bsafe
Tap water
1 cup ewct every week
clonex gel as a dip
change solution every 3 weeks!
Clean nozzles as needed
To clean your cloner
fresh tap water (cold)
1 cap of bleach
run for 15 mins
replace water rinse for 15 mins
clean nozzles
add new solution!!
I do have an extra top so that makes life so much easier!
Hope this helps! Bsafe
But what is the reason behind this? humans have been studying the science of plants/botany/horticulture for many many many years now. There must be a scientific reason for such wildly varying results?
Is there anyone on here that is an actual botanist that can answer why this is happening?
Botanists surly don't have such wildly varying results in labs with other species?
I love growing shit, more than i do consuming it most of the time, but cloning has got me so frustrated at this point i almost want to quit all together. Im 178 clones of this strain down and all have failed to root, they just fucking sit there for months on end, like the living dead, they dont die, just wont fucking root, and i have tried literally everything.
Temperature requirements vary from strain to strain.
Recently I made two sets of clones, keeping them as similar as possible. Eight different plants in each batch, ranging from easy to hard to clone.
I put one set in a spot where temperatures stayed in the 72 -76 degree range.
The other went above my t5 fixture where tmpreratures range from 82 - 86 degrees.
Both got similar lighting, about four or five foot away from metal halide 400 watt.
The results were interesting.
In the hotter group a few hard to root sativa leaning types rooted in 7 days. A few usually easy to root ones just turned to mush by day ten, they were the ones that get powdery mildew easily also.
The ones that turned to mush in the hotter area were the first to root in the cooler spot, while the sativas just languished until getting unhealthy or mold started.
What I learned is something I already knew, temperature is key. I did also learn that each strain has its own best temperature to root in.
Recently I made two sets of clones, keeping them as similar as possible. Eight different plants in each batch, ranging from easy to hard to clone.
I put one set in a spot where temperatures stayed in the 72 -76 degree range.
The other went above my t5 fixture where tmpreratures range from 82 - 86 degrees.
Both got similar lighting, about four or five foot away from metal halide 400 watt.
The results were interesting.
In the hotter group a few hard to root sativa leaning types rooted in 7 days. A few usually easy to root ones just turned to mush by day ten, they were the ones that get powdery mildew easily also.
The ones that turned to mush in the hotter area were the first to root in the cooler spot, while the sativas just languished until getting unhealthy or mold started.
What I learned is something I already knew, temperature is key. I did also learn that each strain has its own best temperature to root in.
