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Who uses Phosphites?
- Thread starter TickleMyBalls
- Start date
- Status
D
DonkDBZ
This link shows some grass with defeciency
check out the blue grass 3rd page down
http://www.gcsaa.org/GCM/2005/nov/PDFs/researcc1Cookpdf.pdf
pretty sweet though that it acts as a fungicide
picked some pure flowers up will be trying out this run
found this on another site
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PHOSPHATE AND PHOSPHITE
The recognized, traditional source of phosphorus, as H3PO4, has long been phosphoric acid. Phosphoric acid, when neutralized with a base, such as ammonium or potassium, forms a salt or phosphate. Phosphorous acid also forms a salt when neutralized with a base. The salt is referred to as phosphite, H3PO3, as opposed to phosphate H3PO4.
Because Phosphite has one less oxygen molecule than phosphate, a higher degree of solubility and mobility, within the plant is achieved. This unique characteristic permits phosphites to be rapidly absorbed or taken up across the membranes of plant foliage and/or roots, in both their nutritive and plant protective roles.
Once applied and rapidly absorbed, by the plant, Phosphites undergo an oxidation or conversion process resulting in the continual release of soluble phosphorus. This allows for the beneficially timed utilization of phosphorus, in preparation for critical times when demand by the plant may be especially high or uptake is otherwise impaired.
Potassium Phosphite application results have also shown several other novel characteristics, such as inhibition of mycorrhizal development, accelerating foliar uptake of other cations such as potassium, calcium, magnesium, and most micro elements, when applied in combination, and by supplying more phosphorus per molecule than phosphate.
Potassium Phosphites are generally compatible with most other nutrient and/or pesticide products thus adding to application efficiency and the reduction of spraying costs.
check out the blue grass 3rd page down
http://www.gcsaa.org/GCM/2005/nov/PDFs/researcc1Cookpdf.pdf
pretty sweet though that it acts as a fungicide
picked some pure flowers up will be trying out this run
found this on another site
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PHOSPHATE AND PHOSPHITE
The recognized, traditional source of phosphorus, as H3PO4, has long been phosphoric acid. Phosphoric acid, when neutralized with a base, such as ammonium or potassium, forms a salt or phosphate. Phosphorous acid also forms a salt when neutralized with a base. The salt is referred to as phosphite, H3PO3, as opposed to phosphate H3PO4.
Because Phosphite has one less oxygen molecule than phosphate, a higher degree of solubility and mobility, within the plant is achieved. This unique characteristic permits phosphites to be rapidly absorbed or taken up across the membranes of plant foliage and/or roots, in both their nutritive and plant protective roles.
Once applied and rapidly absorbed, by the plant, Phosphites undergo an oxidation or conversion process resulting in the continual release of soluble phosphorus. This allows for the beneficially timed utilization of phosphorus, in preparation for critical times when demand by the plant may be especially high or uptake is otherwise impaired.
Potassium Phosphite application results have also shown several other novel characteristics, such as inhibition of mycorrhizal development, accelerating foliar uptake of other cations such as potassium, calcium, magnesium, and most micro elements, when applied in combination, and by supplying more phosphorus per molecule than phosphate.
Potassium Phosphites are generally compatible with most other nutrient and/or pesticide products thus adding to application efficiency and the reduction of spraying costs.
H
highvolt
so do you guys think it would be ok to also use other additives with pure flowers or better to just use a bloom base nute with the pure flowers only.
I use other additives also. my regimen for bloom is this... pure blend pro, silica blast, blast off (first 3 feedings), green fuse bloom stimulator, pure flowers, liquid karma.
H
highvolt
anyone seen this stuff yet
TKO 0-29-26 Phosphite 1 Gal
Regularly:
$57.99
On Sale:
$45.99
http://www.extremepumpkinstore.com/
Description:
TKO is a phosphite, a Phosphite itself is a form of phosphorus (P), which is an essential element in plant photosynthesis, root growth, energy storage and protein formation.
Unlike other forms of phosphorus which can become bound in soil, the chemical make-up of phosphite makes it highly available to plants.
Applications of "TKO" Phosphite have been shown to significantly reduce summer stress on greens, TKO quickly enters through the leaves, crowns and roots, It moves through both xylem and phloem, showing its worth by quickly increasing root mass and improving turf vigor.
It, is known to improve plant vigor and growth, fruit quality, and quickly corrects deficiencies.
It strengthens plants immune system, it has growth stimulating effects!
When using TKO I can visibly see increased plant vigor and fruit gains, reduced need for fertilizers, a healthier, more vibrant plant!
TKO 0-29-26 Phosphite 1 Gal
Regularly:
$57.99
On Sale:
$45.99
http://www.extremepumpkinstore.com/
Description:
TKO is a phosphite, a Phosphite itself is a form of phosphorus (P), which is an essential element in plant photosynthesis, root growth, energy storage and protein formation.
Unlike other forms of phosphorus which can become bound in soil, the chemical make-up of phosphite makes it highly available to plants.
Applications of "TKO" Phosphite have been shown to significantly reduce summer stress on greens, TKO quickly enters through the leaves, crowns and roots, It moves through both xylem and phloem, showing its worth by quickly increasing root mass and improving turf vigor.
It, is known to improve plant vigor and growth, fruit quality, and quickly corrects deficiencies.
It strengthens plants immune system, it has growth stimulating effects!
When using TKO I can visibly see increased plant vigor and fruit gains, reduced need for fertilizers, a healthier, more vibrant plant!
maybe even clearer than water....depending on where you live...
Admiral Canna
Member
Gettin ready to do a side by side using Pure Flowers. Used it a few times on a few plants but nothing to say thus far. They didn't get it in all their feedings.
It definitely has a weird smell. Kinda like boiled eggs and sulfur. LOL
It definitely has a weird smell. Kinda like boiled eggs and sulfur. LOL
krunch just summed it all up... I been using phosphates forever talked to krunch turned me onto pura flowers... all i can say is OMG this shit rocks... ill never use phosphates again... ive also noticed certain plants respond alot better to it while others it seem just like they were still getting phosphate... but like i said never go back.
H
highvolt
that tko looks blue on that pic but it is as clear as water also. i know coz im using it.
yeah it's the best. I've moved a lot of my friends off of other bloom boosters and onto pure flowers. I've notice that it's mostly Indica dominant plants that really respond well. I'll check them like 3 hours after watering and their leaves are always standing up at almost a 90 degree angle.
Cannaseur Kid
Member
Pure Flowers is good stuff. just a little sketchy to work with because it's so concentrated but I have great results using it.
apples and oranges....
pure flowers is a pk booster.....
bloombastic is a pk booster, has vitamins, aminos and silica.....
@ All:
Please read this article below, which I wrote, and Dave was kind enough to post here for me, before I stared this account here. Phosphites provide very little (often close to zero) P directly to plants! Phosphites are systemic fungicides!
The fact people see good response from Pure Flowers means it's the K that is giving benefit, not the P, because the P is phosphites. And phosphites do not provide P that plant can use without microbes breaking it down first, and that's a rather slow process.
FWIW, boosting P in pre-flower is not a good idea, only boosting K is wise. The reason is that the more P you give the greater the "root:shoot" ratio, in other words, more stretch and internodal length and less root growth (same thing from N). So, unless you don't care about short and tight plants, you should not be boosting P in pre-flowering. Besides, P is way over-applied anyway. A good rule of thumb is to provide P and S in similar levels, and provide K and Ca in similar levels. I don't let P go over ~50 ppm, ever.
Any companies selling phosphetes as a P source are idiots and selling you snake oil. Phosphetes must be broken down by microbes before plants can use it as a P source.
When people benefit from PK boosters, it's due to the K, not the P, because most ferts provide too much P anyway. Thus it not only redundant to add extra P during pre-flowing, but it also makes plants stretch more. Too much N and P makes plant stretch, e.g. root:shoot ratio, not so with K, thus K is 'safe' to apply in pre-flowering a as booster.
Please, don't just post hateful messages to me because of this post, please take the time to read the article I took a few days to write, and research.
Please read this article below, which I wrote, and Dave was kind enough to post here for me, before I stared this account here. Phosphites provide very little (often close to zero) P directly to plants! Phosphites are systemic fungicides!
The fact people see good response from Pure Flowers means it's the K that is giving benefit, not the P, because the P is phosphites. And phosphites do not provide P that plant can use without microbes breaking it down first, and that's a rather slow process.
FWIW, boosting P in pre-flower is not a good idea, only boosting K is wise. The reason is that the more P you give the greater the "root:shoot" ratio, in other words, more stretch and internodal length and less root growth (same thing from N). So, unless you don't care about short and tight plants, you should not be boosting P in pre-flowering. Besides, P is way over-applied anyway. A good rule of thumb is to provide P and S in similar levels, and provide K and Ca in similar levels. I don't let P go over ~50 ppm, ever.
Any companies selling phosphetes as a P source are idiots and selling you snake oil. Phosphetes must be broken down by microbes before plants can use it as a P source.
When people benefit from PK boosters, it's due to the K, not the P, because most ferts provide too much P anyway. Thus it not only redundant to add extra P during pre-flowing, but it also makes plants stretch more. Too much N and P makes plant stretch, e.g. root:shoot ratio, not so with K, thus K is 'safe' to apply in pre-flowering a as booster.
Please, don't just post hateful messages to me because of this post, please take the time to read the article I took a few days to write, and research.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Phosphite: What companies aren't telling you[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What phosphites will and will not do for a plant; the good and bad"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What phosphites will and will not do for a plant; the good and bad"[/FONT]
@ All:
Please read this article below, which I wrote, and Dave was kind enough to post here for me, before I stared this account here. Phosphites provide very little (often close to zero) P directly to plants! Phosphites are systemic fungicides!
The fact people see good response from Pure Flowers means it's the K that is giving benefit, not the P, because the P is phosphites. And phosphites do not provide P that plant can use without microbes breaking it down first, and that's a rather slow process.
FWIW, boosting P in pre-flower is not a good idea, only boosting K is wise. The reason is that the more P you give the greater the "root:shoot" ratio, in other words, more stretch and internodal length and less root growth (same thing from N). So, unless you don't care about short and tight plants, you should not be boosting P in pre-flowering. Besides, P is way over-applied anyway. A good rule of thumb is to provide P and S in similar levels, and provide K and Ca in similar levels. I don't let P go over ~50 ppm, ever.
Any companies selling phosphetes as a P source are idiots and selling you snake oil. Phosphetes must be broken down by microbes before plants can use it as a P source.
When people benefit from PK boosters, it's due to the K, not the P, because most ferts provide too much P anyway. Thus it not only redundant to add extra P during pre-flowing, but it also makes plants stretch more. Too much N and P makes plant stretch, e.g. root:shoot ratio, not so with K, thus K is 'safe' to apply in pre-flowering a as booster.
Please, don't just post hateful messages to me because of this post, please take the time to read the article I took a few days to write, and research.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"Phosphite: What companies aren't telling you[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What phosphites will and will not do for a plant; the good and bad"[/FONT]
I don't buy snake oil. I also value my experience of 2 decades using phosphites over your writing. It costs $5000/acre to grow table grapes. I don't waste a penny on snake oil...... or bad advice.
So there we are.
The part I highlighted is incorrect, once phosphites are taken into leafs they are not converted into usable P for the plant in a reasonable time frame, they stay as phosphites for the most part, and provide very little P nutrition to the plant in a reasonable time frame.
From the good paper you posted (thanks for that), please see the pic below. It shows the grass with phosphates as P (pic on left) vs. grass with phosphites as P source (pic on right); and the grass with phosphites has P deficiency! This, I hope, proves my points about why we should not use phosphites for P! If not please read the article I wrote, in it I explain this in more detail and provide a plethora of references:
For P we should stick with phosphates, not phosphites. Microbes need to breakdown phosphites before they will provide more than near-nil P nutrition to the plant.
I hope my efforts help folks to understand why Pure Flower is Pure Bullshit. People are much better off using a PK booster that has phosphates...or better yet, only boost K during per-flowering because boosting P is a waste and goes against goals of most growers (i.e. short, stalky plants).
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