Who bred Original White Widow?

[nukklehead]

only if you found the tomato/mayo strain from*********genetics.. maybe some santa dorito to go with it.. now thats a hybrid

 

[MummyCat]

great idea guys, the strain could be called "shitty sandwich"

 

[SOTF420]

Thought you guys might enjoy this read

Shanti rules ftw

The Origins of the White Widow

The White Widow is without a doubt one of the most successful commercialized cannabis strains on the market today. Perhaps that is also why its history is so problematic. This most famous plant has since its birth in 1994 won a number of awards, including first price in the 1995 High Times Cannabis Cup. Known to be highly resinous and extremely potent, the plant has the ability to humble even the most experienced smoker and has been used in the making of countless new hybrids, always improving on quality.

The name White Widow is usually linked with several different breeders and today almost every seed bank offers its own version of the plant. The battle over who actually invented the strain has turned into a political struggle, dividing the public into two camps. Some believe that the White Widow was discovered by a man named Ingemar, while others take the side of another skillful breeder known as Shantibaba. Although the history of this plant is complicated and shrouded by doubt and misinformed opinions, the truth must be that only one person can be accredited with bringing White Widow into the world. My research has lead me to believe that this person is indeed Shantibaba, the former co-owner of Green House Seeds and current founder of The Mr Nice Seedbank, for reasons that I will explain in this article.


The White Widow strain was first released to the public by Shantibaba, shortly after he founded the Green House Seed Company in 1994 with a Dutch partner named Arjan. The pedigree of this famous sativa/indica hybrid is made up of a pure Brazilian sativa mother and a South Indian, Keralan hybrid father. The exact origins of the mother plant remains somewhat of a mystery but the most educated guess is that it could possibly be the old school, Brazilian landrace Manga Rosa, which has a long history of spiritual use. The Father was discovered during a trip to India where Shantibaba was approached by a man, who after sharing a joint with him, eventually led him to his farm in the mountains of Kerala. The farmer then introduced him to an indica hybrid that had been selectively cultivated and bred towards optimum resin production in his village for a very long time. After several days of sampling the farmer’s plants, Shantibaba left for the Netherlands with a batch of fresh seeds, from which he was soon to discover the male for his White Widow cross. He eventually bred it to the Brazilian Sativa mother, forming the spectacular White Widow.

During the time when Shantibaba was still the co-owner of Green House Seeds, he established several new and superior hybrids while working alongside Neville Schoenmaker (the father of Dutch seed banks) on joint projects. Some of the stock that they used dated back to the early days of the Seed Bank that Neville himself had founded, a company that later became reformed under new ownership and known as Sensi Seeds. During the time when the White Widow was created, Shantibaba and Neville concentrated on the breeding aspect of the business while Arjan, not being a breeder himself, was left in charge of promotion and sales. After some conflict of interests between the two owners, Shantibaba sold his half of the Green House Seed Company to Arjan in 1998 and left for Switzerland to form the Mr Nice Seedbank in collaboration with Howard Marks and Neville Schoenmaker. Dispensing with the somewhat theatrical tactics of his former partner turned competitor, the master breeder Shantibaba then concentrated on supplying growers with superior quality strains from both old and new world genetics. The exceptional quality of his products can hardly be disputed by anyone. He started breeding the Widow under the flag of his newly formed brand and gave it the name Black Widow since the name White Widow was already being marketed by Arjan over at Green House Seeds.

According to an interview for the German cannabis magazine Grow; a breeder named Ingemar is also accredited with inventing the White Widow strain. This is where the history of the plant becomes problematic. Ingemar was apparently working on some strains for the Green House Seed Company in the past, much like he is now, and he quite possibly had a hand in developing the White Widow strain but apparently not in discovering it. He seems to have substantial support from the Dutch growing community but there is little in terms of historical data to support his claim. Ingemar says that the seeds for the White Widow hybrid were accidentally found in a batch of hand rubbed hashish and that the strain was then worked on for some six years before it was released. If this is true, the birth of the Widow can be dated back as early as 1988, although there are no records to confirm this. The earliest descriptions on the White Widow were made by Shantibaba himself in 1995, while he was still working under the Green House flag. The lineage stated for the White Widow is also in accordance with what Shantibaba says. This would indicate that the genetic material that was used to create the White Widow originated from the stock found at the Green House Seed Company at the time, stock that Shantibaba and Neville had obtained and refined. Ingemar has not to this day disclosed any detailed information on the Widow or provided any proof that the plant indeed came from him, besides his own words. The degree of his involvement in the making of this highly regarded strain might never reach the light of day without further investigation.

Shantibaba on the other hand has been quite open about the origin of this wonderful plant. He also seems very familiar with both the Widow and its parents. Going by the line of reasoning that I have chosen here, one thing seems to remain undisputable, and that is that Shantibaba is in possession of the only true parents of the White Widow strain now in existence. This would make sense if he also discovered the strain. The parents of his creation are safely tucked away in the MNS clone library. This also indicates that he alone is capable of reproducing the hybrid that was initially released some 15 years ago. In other words, most other Widows must be founded on progeny that originates further down the line and they are also most likely out crossed with something else. Further evidence to support this theory comes from the plant itself. The plant from The Mr Nice Seedbank seems to have the most in common with the White Widow that the Green House Seeds Company entered into the Cannabis Cup in 1995. Ingemar offers his own version of the White Widow and several White Widow hybrids, like the notoriously potent Ingemar’s Punch, through the DeSjamaan seed bank and the White Widow Web. He is also working closely with Arjan over at Green House Seeds, supplying him with genetic material which include the allegedly one and only true White Widow strain. As wonderfully potent as it might be, the authenticity and genetic makeup of this parallel version of the Widow will remain a mystery until we are enlightened by Ingemar himself. His substantial contribution to the varieties offered by the Green House Seed Company should, however, not go unnoticed.

Shantibaba discovered many of his strains while working under the Green House label but apparently never shared the parental stock of his strains with anyone. Nevertheless, the Green House Seed Company still offers many of his and Neville’s strains, claiming that they are the real deal. Most notable of these strains are the White Widow (Black Widow), White Rhino (Medicine Man), Great White Shark (Shark Shock), El Nino (La Niña), Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze. Not without a sense of irony, many of these plants have accumulated an impressive amount of awards for the Green House Seed Company over the years. The fact however remains that all these plants can be traced back to the original breeders Shantibaba and Neville, who in an attempt to avoid confusion, renamed some of their strains. Sadly, despite their efforts, confusion and contradiction ensued and even more breeders emerged, claiming to have invented the White Widow strain. The Green House Seeds Company has not been as active in developing new, and reinforcing old strains, as Shantibaba. Their focus seems to have shifted towards feminizing their old stock.

Today almost every breeder and seed bank sell seeds that they claim to be the original White Widow. In 1996, both the Nirvana and Dutch Passion seed companies purchased a single pack of White Widow seeds from Shantibaba himself at the Green House Seed Company and within a year released their own versions of the Widow. Undoubtedly all very potent and nice plants, the question whether or not all the White Widow plants on the market today can actually be considered pure remains highly speculative since the only true parental stock remain in the sole care of Shantibaba and the Mr Nice Seedbank. Why so many different breeders claim to have personally invented this strain is puzzling although understandable due to its commercial success. New breeders keep emerging, claiming authority over the White Widow strain. There can, however, be only one truth, however hazy it has become over the years.

 

[jack.gh]

I'm sure the haters will have feast on my user points for this one, but it needs to be said, i'm not gonna read things like this and not react. In the defense of green house, I can't resist to mention waterboy aka shantiblabla has no proper updated pictures of his strains and actually uses the green house seed co pictures on his website! non of his pics are from the same grow facility, except for those old pics from the grow in switzerland, which arjan mentions in his letter. those are not his glass houses and he has beef with his former partners as well! doesnt that say enough.

Why does he still use OUR white widow / el nino for his black widow picture if he is such a master breeder? doesnt he have a camera? What about medicine man? that's gh white rhino picture. I thought he remastered all that stuff?

At one point they mentioned howard marks was a breeder as well, contradicting himself later when howard tells high times magazine in a interview that he has absolutely nothing to do with the seed business or breeding, he just rented out his name to waterboy for commercial purposes!

make your conclusions based on both sides of the story and beware that mr.nice seedbank is also just trying to sell more expensive seeds than arjan.

Medicine Man = Green House White Rhino Picture,
Black Widow = Green House El Niño Picture,

come on. get some new pics, ghsc have all new series with videos and pics and we're releasing a HD 4 disc bluray cd very soon!

here is a quote from arjan about all this non-sense:

"1. Waterboy aka shanti bla bla, claims to have invented white widow. How does he dare?
Ingemar invented WW already in 1987 long before he was living in Holland.
It was called Arnhem’s Wonder and already won the first HL cup in 1989.
Everybody knew this except some wise guys on icmag. For those who don’t believe this, please call Coffeeshop Catweazel or Roger from the grow shop; they worked with Ingmar for a long time.
Roger has always sold the clones he had. He had a famous grow shop in Nijmegen. I bought the male and female among other plants in 1992 and only crossed them in 1994. I did not have to do any breading on the White Widow at that time because Ingemar had already done it for us.
And to this day you can still buy original clones of the White Widow in that area of Holland.

2. Waterboy also claims to have upgraded the SSH. In fact he calls himself “the father and mother of the White Widow and Super Silver Haze” in the Italian Dolce Vita magazine. Really? Wow.
How could have Waterboy upgraded the Super Silver Haze that Neville had created and that was so good to have won three cups in a row (’97, ’98, ’99)? What did he make better? Isn’t that the funniest thing?
As a matter of fact I can talk about something even funnier: when we entered the High Times Cannabis Cup in 2008 with SSH and got 3rd place, Shantiblabla claimed that it was his grower selling Super Silver Haze to us. He wrote this himself on the forums, as usual contradicting another version. In reality, which grower in Holland actually sold this to me? You know who? We bought it form Derry, who helped us out at the last moment. Later we found out it was amnesia haze that came out third. How funny, Waterboy didn’t recognize his own super silver haze.
.....
7.Shantibaba states everywhere that I don’t have my original mother plants because he thinks that if you repeat this enough times, people will start to believe it. Bullshit. Also in this instance it’s the other way around: during the raid in Switzerland in 2001, when Shantibaba went to prison, he lost all his material except Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze. Then, after another bust, roughly 2 years after the first one, he came out of prison; and he started from the beginning, growing up seeds from Green House F1 stock to select new mothers. Then he lost everything again: in 2007 he got busted again, and was forced to start all over for the third time; with the result that the seeds he sells are now inferior F2 genetics.

Due to the bust of 2007, in 2008 he could not sell any seeds; he had to select new mothers and start all over from scratch. If he would have those mothers, he would have delivered the seeds to his distributors (you would assume).
I asked “the Nose”, our friend in Amsterdam, how many packs Shantibaba sold in Holland (because he is his distributor). You know what he said? “He did not sell a single pack in 2008”. I couldn’t believe this, so I asked again: “Really”? “Not one” he replied. Shanti Blablablabla....

Then in 2009-2010 Shantiblabla’s Spanish partner Carullo walked out on him, and he had no access left to his own F1 genetics. Carullo himself sent a letter about this matter to the Spanish cannabis associations. So in 2009 and 2010 Shantiblabla wasn’t able to deliver any seeds. Again.
Carullo specified in his letter Shantiblabla’s production technique: one single male used to pollinate 10 different female strains, all outdoors, with the result that all his genetics became very similar to one another."

to read the full text (yes it is a bit harsh, but we are fed up)

visit this link: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=221603

Now we have the full story, someone should include this info in the The Origins of the White Widow story. Let me remind you, this article is probably written by jesse who also claims Sam the Skunkman is DEA and sam happens to be highly respected and a moderator on this site.

over and out.

PEACE

Don't forget to check out the strain hunters live thread! and no, you dont have to pay to watch our adventureS....that greedy arjan s.o.b giving away entertainment for free again.......

 

[Jimmyofsweden]

It sounds like Shanti blablabla not know what he does, he should probably do something else in the future instead of going around and copy other seed companies. Then he should probably stop smoking cannabis, sounds like he is a bit slow.

=)

 

[Tokage]

I just dont get it, people are taking sides in a fight they know nothing of except the proof infront of them, still they deny facts. What strikes me as odd is, that the only one complaining are Shantibaba users and GHSC haters in general. All the others say nothing and act mature about all this.
If you push a man long enugh, then he is sure to react. And that it was happend. Arjan told the truth, simple as that. If it was the right way or no, who is to know except Arjan and Shanti. Rest of us can only go on proven facts.

My friends dying grandmother said on the death bed. "What is right is right, and that you can never change"
Stop all the hating and let the elephants do there own dance

 

[cheesey]

I just dont get it, people are taking sides in a fight they know nothing of except the proof infront of them, still they deny facts. What strikes me as odd is, that the only one complaining are Shantibaba users and GHSC haters in general. All the others say nothing and act mature about all this.
If you push a man long enugh, then he is sure to react. And that it was happend. Arjan told the truth, simple as that. If it was the right way or no, who is to know except Arjan and Shanti. Rest of us can only go on proven facts.

My friends dying grandmother said on the death bed. "What is right is right, and that you can never change"
Stop all the hating and let the elephants do there own dance

you would say that being a ghsc forum mod .

 

[Tokage]

Yes i am, and that dont change facts do it? lolol weird fellow. Damn proud over it to rofl...
Just the need to point that out wow...

 

[growhi]

to me the truth is noone invented it !! the plants that made it were floating around before the 2 breeders in question! and i bet there were a number of breeders who thought of crossin them together !!

not like its the dna sequence !! its just crossin 3 plants lol

take what shab and arjan say with a massive pinch of salt !! and judge them both purely on there seeds, and the plants that grow from them !

green house are cheap and cheerfull !! so next time your getin some mr nice black widow or med man of super silver haze just buy a cheap 5 pack of the green house verison !

and then see for your self witch is best !!!

what ever side your on, you might be surrpised to find the other sides is actually better

 

[Tokage]

That was good words Growhi. respect.

 

[Junkhead]

Jack and Tokage take Arjans nuts out of your fucking mouth and get a grip

 

[roach]

judging by the public apearences of Arjan i dont trust a word he says, the guy is just too full of himself for me (i like his lemon skunk but not his ego)

Shanti, he´s a stand up guy when it comes to service, but his stories got holes in them too, so i dont realy trust him 100% either

and ingemar, lol what can i say, his story sounds like the least credible one, after reading that interview i think its more likely that aliens made White Widow

so i think i will just decide that no one has the original anymore, and most likely several people pitched in to create the original

 

[Tokage]

I dont talk bad about Shanti, so far i know he could be the best guy ever. So please dont take a swing against me, i turn other cheek around and smiles and i got love enugh for both of us.

 

[Junkhead]

Keep doing what you do Tokage its not personal. This greenhouse shit slinging is really quite ridiculous.

 

[jack.gh]

Keep doing what you do Tokage its not personal. This greenhouse shit slinging is really quite ridiculous.

If standing up for my crew and friend family is having arjan's nuts in my mouth, then so be it. Let's just say I am juggling his nuts in my mouth by defending what we all work hard for!

 

[StRa]

by defending what we all work hard for!

Money?!?!?!

 

[THE TROOPER]

yup...stop the fucking bus and let the guy jackoff!..... that's right jack your a douchenozzle!....it's really time to boycott greenshack seeds!

no class in your public rants about shanti at all!

just proves you assholes are in it for the cash only and really don't give a shit about anything!!!....legend's in your own fuckin mind's!

here's another one for the top of arjan's SELF PROCLAIMED LIST....arjan king of the fucking pleebs!

TT

 

[jack.gh]

you would say that being a ghsc forum mod .

Don't worry cheesey, we'll all pray for you!

 

[jack.gh]

Jah made these plants!

 

[spiritual g]

who gives a fuck.