which non-digital timer to use

[clowntown]

Try running 1500w... or even 1200w... on a "1500w-rated" timer like the TN311C and see how it ends up after continuous 12-hour load per day. That's where theoretical growers will say "1300 < 1500, so it's OK" and the experienced growers would say "you're gonna set your house on fire".

How's that saying go... "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." Think about that.

Please report me to the mods.

 

[badmf]

Sounds like to me you had a POS timer that failed, and isn't at all indicative of all, or even most, digital timers. If anything, it's the exact opposite.

So because one digital timer (what brand & model?) failed, all other digital timers of other brands and models and such will fail, too? If a piece of crap Hyundai car breaks down often for you... does that mean that your reliable Honda will also suddenly break down? That's not very good logic.


I'm no longer playing this game of saving $20, "taking my chances" with products that have a very good proven track record of failure, and coming back to either a messed up grow or a burnt down house. I think by the time you're running 1kw (hint hint) you should be more inclined to spend that money to Do It Right rather than continue to go with some corner-cutting methods that'll eventually get you in trouble one way or another.

Seems like to me you're playing with danger, just to save a few bucks (which in the big picture isn't even a drop in the bucket)...

First off where do you come off saying I infered "all" digital timers will fail? I said it did fail, the manf'ers name isn't listed but model 9ka8 which controlled relays, btw the "smart" way to go. (analogs would've come back on at a later time but kept the same light cycle)
And I never cut corners friend, actually quite the opposite, everything here is top-shelf. I have been growing since '65 and many here and elsewhere know who I am and what I do. I didn't get this name by accident. So before you jump to any conclusions you might inquire as to the reasons one does what one does. Treating all here with respect should be a standard. Peace!

 

[PharmaCan]

Clowntown - I does my heart good to see someone who can be as big a prick as me. Seriously, it takes some of the pressure off of me. I actually had a guy a couple weeks ago who went to the trouble of sending me 3-4 pm's to rag on me about one post. ( And, after berating me in his first pm, the SOB had the audacity to ask for electrical advice in his second pm, then jumped on my shit again when I ignored his question. lol) But truly, sir, excellent job of being a prick! My hat's off to you! BTW - I particularly liked "douchebaggery". That had me in stitches.

NorCalFor20 - Dude, you know I stuck up for you on another thread about moving to Cali, and even offered you some pretty solid advice on how you could get started. However, what ClownTown said needs to be said once in a while and you just happen to be the unfortunate chump who stepped in it. Get over it! Read the good parts of what Clowntown had to say and listen to it. It's good advice.

The thing here is that you have a lot of people on IC that have been growing for many, many years and for every question there is probably someone who has been there and done that ten times over. Particularly in matters involving safety, it can be very frustrating for those who put the time and energy into giving good advice to have then take the time to contradict the shit that unknowledgeable and inexperienced people put out. (BTW - people learn as much from mistakes as they do from successes. If you want to actually help people and appear smart doing so, and if you have had more failures and disappointments than successes, talk about your failures. Wear them like a badge of honor! Few people have the courage to publicly broadcast their failures. Not only will talking about what went wrong with your grows help others to learn from your mistakes, but it will get you some respect and put you in the position where no one can ever give you any shit about those mistakes.

Back to timers - The electronic Intermatics reset when power is interrupted. They have a battery back up. I have four of these:

Intermatic Heavy Duty Digital Outdoor Timer controls landscape and holiday lighting and motor loads, such as engine block heaters and pool/spa pumps. With two timed receptacles allows you to have two different plugs both with the ability to be timed.

7 day/7 event programming
Multiple daily programming options
2 Timed Receptacles
Ratings: 15 Amps Resistive and Inductive, 1000 Watts Tungsten, 1/4 H.P., 120VAC, 60 Hz
3 prong grounded plug and receptacle
Easy to program
MFG Model # : HB88RC
MFG Part # : HB88RC

Mechanical timers, on the other hand, will restart, but not reset. While this is not the most ideal situation, checking the time on your timers should be a regular part of your routine and good quality, heavy-duty mechanical timers do tend be more reliable than electronic timers in the event of a power outage simply because of the way restarting the power affects electronics. I've done electrical upgrades where I've removed ancient Intermatic mechanicals that were still working perfectly. I have two of these timers now:

Single throw. For loads up to 40 amp. 1 to 12 In.on/off" operations per day with one-hour minimum "on/off" times. One "on" and one "off" tripper included.

Provides 12 on/off operations per day
Highest HP rating in the industry
minimum on/off timers of 1 hour
1 year warranty
MFG Brand Name : Intermatic
MFG Model # : T103D89
MFG Part # : T103D89

I'm going to be doing some re-wiring pretty soon and I'm going to put my lights and fans on relays and get a really good surge protector for the electronic timers and a computer UPS for the mechanicals. That should ensure almost troulbe-free timer operation.

PC

 

[FreezerBoy]

BTW - people learn as much from mistakes as they do from successes.

Actually, I'd say we learn more from mistakes. But, this is the wrong place for that kind of lesson. I'm happy Nor failed to burn his house to the ground but, that's no reason to keep trying.

 

[clowntown]

You're right badmf, I probably assumed too much and for that I apologize.

PharmaCan, I'm a pretty nice guy... really. NorCalFor20 and I kinda have an little previous understanding of each other, kinda...

 

[PharmaCan]

PharmaCan, I'm a pretty nice guy... really. [

Me too, most of the time. I just don't have much tolerance for BS and then it's a Jeckyll/Hyde kinda thing.

Take care!

PC

 

[clowntown]

Oh yeah NorCalFor20 this is an example of actual knowledge / experience (with TN311 timers)... not theoretical.



And this is called actual experience with the T104.

 

[Bluesboy]

I'm going to be starting a new 600w HPS system, what timer would you guys recommend that preferably does not require any hand wiring. A simple Plug and play timer with easy to use 12/12 functionality is def. my preference if possible. An affordable product is a plus but of course, safety first.

Thanks in advance,

Bluesboy

 

[clowntown]

I think you'll be plenty safe with just about any grounded timer. I personally got a couple of these, which I think you can get from any hydro shop for $10 - $20... these are fairly common models, and they will vary by brand, just a (sometimes) differing housing / enclosure and maybe a brand sticker slapped on, but very likely out of the same factory using the same components.





The nice thing about digital timers is that it's much easier to set it to exactly 12/12, instead of accidentally making it 11:45/12:15 and so on just by incorrectly judging a pin location on the wheel or whatnot... not to mention that those TN311's are really easy to turn the dial on, so if you accidentally bump into 'em you can knock the setting off by a few hours and it's a bitch to get 'em back on track. Just less room for fuck-up, plus the settings are remembered and clock running on battery backup during power outages so your schedule isn't shifted by however long the power outage was, as with mechanical timers.

 

[Bluesboy]

Excellent info sir. Thank you very much for taking the time to post detailed pictures along with your description of the timer. I'll be heading to my local shop asap to pick up your recommendation.

Thanks again,

Bluesboy

 

[green_grow]

nice job on the powerboard, clowntown. it's good to see nice workmanship on the electrical side of things.

 

[gdawg]

nice work on the board clown. pharma that was a good ass post a few back man.

 

[green_tea]

C# application @ Computer (with UPS) -> Phidget -> big ass mofo relay -> Ballast (flip flop in the near future)

 

[clowntown]

You new-school kids... I'll one-up you, green_tea :

m68hc11 microcontroller (512 bytes of RAM, 512 bytes of EEPROM!!) + assembler + PCB + relay + DB9/RS232 connector + etc = flip-flop device commercial stylee, woowooooo

(I know even the m68hc's are "too powerful" and that much simpler microcontrollers will suffice... but the only one I have hands-on experience with.)

 

[gdawg]

hey clown thanx for the help a while back. they havent been back or called, havent got the chance to talk to a nieghbor yet.

 

[eyes]

intermatic plug in timers or intermatic digital timers are (the plastic ones clowntown is showing),should be reserved for fans,light movers,pumps and other low amp draw devices.they are knows to fry and melt with high amperage voltage running through them.(ie 1000 watt lights)be better off with an intermatic timer thats wired like u see in clown towns pic to 2 gang duplexes.

 

[KillerDemo]

what about this one guys?

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=TIIGS011&eq=&Tp=

 

[badmf]

what about this one guys?

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=TIIGS011&eq=&Tp=

Yo Killer, if you read the products own description it does not list lighting!! Cycle timers are more for repeated on/offs like ebb/flow or such. Peace!

 

[zolar]

well i don't get out much but i'm using some old [i've had them 2 0 years and i got them used from the greenhouse i worked at]
timers that are mechanical and look like that one in a post on this thread with a small padlock

they are brands Paragon AND TORKx one is 24 hour and the other is 30 minutes with 30 sec units on/off grainger still has these or the equivalent last i checked ?yearago?

i think they run about 100 $ industrial quality also intermatic is another industrial quality

whats a fire and a bust going to cost you? murphys law of thing would have a fire when you can't deal;with it yourself and those fire guys are usually brothers or cousins with local cops....

 

[green_tea]

I've just started with the phidgets stuff... right now basic control of one or two things, but eventually when i get my lazy ass in gear (this winter will be boring so I'll work on it then) I want it to also function as a database to log all the data. would be nice to see some charts and try and tweak em, allow notes throughout the grow, so on the chart you could see what your notes were. Maybe one was about how you overfed with X PPM, or you slopped on the PH this one week and you'll see it.


but these are just grand ideas, getting the code to work will be much harder.