Where's the electrician?

[luciano28]

Crizzo, Im not disagreeing with you or agreeing with you, I think the 80% is just a guideline, but Ive heard people say breakers will actually trip at 80% including an instructor I had in school, which I might add had no teaching degree, was just a licensed electrician for 30 years.

You cite Article 100 of the code book, thats the glossary/dictionary, there are no Codes in that section, its just for reference purposes when you dont understand a word and need to know the definition of it. The name of Article 100 is "Definitons". So Im curious which definiton you were looking at, maybe I can help hunting down a definitive answer on this 80% pop/no pop thing. Im looking at the 1999 book.

FWIW I agree you shouldnt go over 80%, but like I said I dont know for sure if the breaker will pop. I dont really know how Pharma Can can state it definitely doesnt either though unless he has some equipment running the tests or is he continuously trying to burn his house down? But if it says 40 on it, Im betting it pops at 40 not 32, or it would say 32 I think.

Like Hoosier said, dont go over 80% of the breaker rating when planning your circuits out and its all gravy.

Dont get so butt-hurt when someone disagrees, its the interwebz, its gonna happen

 

[PharmaCan]

Crizzo, Im not disagreeing with you or agreeing with you, I think the 80% is just a guideline, but Ive heard people say breakers will actually trip at 80% including an instructor I had in school, which I might add had no teaching degree, was just a licensed electrician for 30 years.

You cite Article 100 of the code book, thats the glossary/dictionary, there are no Codes in that section, its just for reference purposes when you dont understand a word and need to know the definition of it. The name of Article 100 is "Definitons". So Im curious which definiton you were looking at, maybe I can help hunting down a definitive answer on this 80% pop/no pop thing. Im looking at the 1999 book.

FWIW I agree you shouldnt go over 80%, but like I said I dont know for sure if the breaker will pop. I dont really know how Pharma Can can state it definitely doesnt either though unless he has some equipment running the tests or is he continuously trying to burn his house down? But if it says 40 on it, Im betting it pops at 40 not 32, or it would say 32 I think.

Like Hoosier said, dont go over 80% of the breaker rating when planning your circuits out and its all gravy.

Dont get so butt-hurt when someone disagrees, its the interwebz, its gonna happen

The problem with trolls is that they take things out of context or twist words around or start nit-picking common usage of the English language. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is correct their misinformation then just ignore them.

As you are well aware from actual experience, conditions in the field can differ, and there are a lot of variable factors, like length of run, start-up surge, etc. that determine how something is going to be wired. Obviously, all wiring should be done to code as a minimum standard.

My original point was simply that saying breakers wear out from normal use and that breakers get real hot is just nonsense. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do I know at what point every brand of breaker ever manufactured is going to pop? No, of course I do not. But I do know from many years of actual experience that a breaker will easily last 50 years. I've done a lot of service upgrades on 1950's era houses, which were designed when a washer, dryer, refrigerator and tv constituted the main load in a home. Over the years people would add circuits for a/c and microwaves and electronics and all that 20th century stuff and cram their panels full of slimline breakers until they were so far over the rated capacity it was ridiculous. And yet, it is generally when they start having problems with breakers popping, not with the house burning down, that they decide to upgrade the service. ...and that's because circuit breakers pop before they get real hot.

Let me reiterate, for the umpteenth time, electrical codes set minimum standards. For most residential applications I would strongly suggest that one exceed minimum standards, just as an added margin of safety.

But what do I know????

PC aka Meter Monkey

 

[luciano28]

The problem with trolls is that they take things out of context or twist words around or start nit-picking common usage of the English language. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is correct their misinformation then just ignore them.

As you are well aware from actual experience, conditions in the field can differ, and there are a lot of variable factors, like length of run, start-up surge, etc. that determine how something is going to be wired. Obviously, all wiring should be done to code as a minimum standard.

My original point was simply that saying breakers wear out from normal use and that breakers get real hot is just nonsense. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do I know at what point every brand of breaker ever manufactured is going to pop? No, of course I do not. But I do know from many years of actual experience that a breaker will easily last 50 years. I've done a lot of service upgrades on 1950's era houses, which were designed when a washer, dryer, refrigerator and tv constituted the main load in a home. Over the years people would add circuits for a/c and microwaves and electronics and all that 20th century stuff and cram their panels full of slimline breakers until they were so far over the rated capacity it was ridiculous. And yet, it is generally when they start having problems with breakers popping, not with the house burning down, that they decide to upgrade the service. ...and that's because circuit breakers pop before they get real hot.

Let me reiterate, for the umpteenth time, electrical codes set minimum standards. For most residential applications I would strongly suggest that one exceed minimum standards, just as an added margin of safety.

But what do I know????

PC aka Meter Monkey

Definitely and some local laws/codes do take the NEC even further, Ive heard Florida code is insane.

I just think him getting all upset over you disagreeing with him is dumb, if the breaker pops, the shit aint right, thats all you need to know. If it pops at 16 amps or 20 amps, I dont see why that is relevant. Plan to stay under 80% of the breakers rating or even lower with a grow room because grow lights, and anything with a motor(pumps) will have a higher start up current spike, wire it up right and you are all good.

I dont know if a home breaker pops at 80% or 100%, to tell you the truth I dont care. As long as it pops, is all Im worried about.

Breakers dont go bad, they last forever, like you said.

EVERYONE , if your breaker pops, IT IS YOUR FAULT. People are hardheaded, they cant believe it so I put it in CAPS.

Defective breakers or breakers going bad are like winning lottery tickets. Mighty rare, I bet I never see one especially in a home.

Peace

 

[cocktail frank]

moving parts do wear down.
just like in your car.
the more times you turn a breaker on or off, or trip it out, the components will wear.
it does and will happen.
if you guys ever opened a breaker you will see a wire looking element in there.
when you overdraw, it heats up.
the wire will spread and pop, there goes the trip.
circuit draw wont pop a breaker, heat will.
of course, they both go hand in hand.

as far as the 80% thing in art 100.
thats just the def for continuos load.
the 80% rule comes into play somewhere near art 300 .
dont quote me, but it should be under branch circuits.