Where's the electrician?

[Dr.Snow]

So... My friend is setting up a room in his basement and wants to run 6kw off of a 40 amp 240 range wire. At a shop they were carrying 50 amp timer boxes (that plug into a range outlet) made by ?sunlight supply?. Is it possible to run the 50 amp timer off of a 40 amp breaker? Probably not but... Can he switch the 40 amp breaker out for a 50? I'm searching but if anyone knows a thread that would explain setting up a subpanel (from 40 amp range breaker?) this could be a good diy proj. We just got a book from h.d. the complete guide to home wiring so we'll be reading up on that tonight. Thanks for your input!

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

its probably wired with #8 so dont replace the breaker. 6K only takes up 30-33A but you'll probably need a line to run an AC from. and a few fans. but its totaly doable.

of the 50/40 thing. go for it, if the load is exceded the breaker will pop. thats the safty.
or was the breakerbox for the a/c aswell?
youll have to try and balance the current across the two hots, if you understand what i mean.

 

[Dr.Snow]

Quick reply thanks! The box will be strictly for the lights, with the a/c running off a separate breaker. so that should make things easy as it should be only 6 x 4.5 amps = 27 which is only 67 % of the 40 amp max. Maybe even less with digital ballasts? Anyone who wants to chime in about their lumatek 1000s please do! peace

 

[420cali]

That book is real helpful.Go back to home de pot and get a Intermatic 40 Amp 240V Water Heater Time Switch and wire it up with outlets. It will be like 60 bucks total. No need for a sub panel unless addtional 120v outlets/power are needed.

 

[cocktail frank]

of the 50/40 thing. go for it, if the load is exceded the breaker will pop. thats the safty.

not cool dude.
info like this is not correct and a liability.
please do not tell people what is right or wrong when you dont kno yourself.
not to pick on you DH, but stop guessing outloud and spread misinfo in threads.
shit like this can get people killed.

breaker sizes are DIRECTLY related to wire size.
you cant just "up" the breaker as you feel.
thats why there are parameters that must be followed.
if you wanna burn yer own grow to the ground, cool.
dont drag others down w/ you.
a draw on a wire causes heat, heat will burn the wire if overloaded.
the bigger the wire, the more the heat dissapates due to the surface area of the wire.
this is why you run bigger wires for bigger loads.

chances are that 40a breaker has 8 awg wire on it.
you need 6 awg wire for a 50a breaker.
and a 1k hps ballast draws about 5 or so amps a piece, youll be right at the threshhold of yer 40a breaker w/ 6k.
but no more

 

[Dr.Snow]

Thanks Frank! its been decided to go with the 40 amp timer + outlet connected to the 40 amp breaker which should do fine... we'll see soon enough!

 

[eyes]

im not an electrician,but i play one on tv.

 

[Dr.Snow]

Okay so now...

there is this-> http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp

a diy 4 light controller (relay).

Now, altering it for 6 lights and 40 amps what would you do?

Obviously I need to get a 40amp relay instead of 30 but also get larger gauge wire (i want to connect the power directly up to the range wire in place or the range breaker)? I would still use 14/3 sjo wire for the individual outlets? bigger housing necessary ?

 

[Cannabis]

of the 50/40 thing. go for it, if the load is exceded the breaker will pop. thats the safty.

not cool dude.
info like this is not correct and a liability.
please do not tell people what is right or wrong when you dont kno yourself.
not to pick on you DH, but stop guessing outloud and spread misinfo in threads.
shit like this can get people killed.

breaker sizes are DIRECTLY related to wire size.
you cant just "up" the breaker as you feel.
thats why there are parameters that must be followed.
if you wanna burn yer own grow to the ground, cool.
dont drag others down w/ you.
a draw on a wire causes heat, heat will burn the wire if overloaded.
the bigger the wire, the more the heat dissapates due to the surface area of the wire.
this is why you run bigger wires for bigger loads.

chances are that 40a breaker has 8 awg wire on it.
you need 6 awg wire for a 50a breaker.
and a 1k hps ballast draws about 5 or so amps a piece, youll be right at the threshhold of yer 40a breaker w/ 6k.
but no more

I figured you'd be along. I reported DIGITALHIPPY last night for giving this dangerous, erroneous advice. Literally, count em - FIVE MINUTES BEFORE coming here and giving DANGEROUS advice: this person who demonstrably, & also how appropriately - CAN'T EVEN SPELL SAFETY -

started his OWN thread asking why his OWN installation was - FLIPPING BREAKERS.

The SECOND thread on it.

Go check what I'm saying if you (whoever reads this) don't believe me: click on DIGITALHIPPY'S name and look at his list of posts- this one, then the one named ''40 amps flipping'' or whatever.
It's literally FIVE MINUTES earlier.

 

[PharmaCan]

I figured you'd be along. I reported DIGITALHIPPY last night for giving this dangerous, erroneous advice. Literally, count em - FIVE MINUTES BEFORE coming here and giving DANGEROUS advice: this person who demonstrably, & also how appropriately - CAN'T EVEN SPELL SAFETY -

started his OWN thread asking why his OWN installation was - FLIPPING BREAKERS.

The SECOND thread on it.

Go check what I'm saying if you (whoever reads this) don't believe me: click on DIGITALHIPPY'S name and look at his list of posts- this one, then the one named ''40 amps flipping'' or whatever.
It's literally FIVE MINUTES earlier.

Grow up!

PC

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

not cool dude.
info like this is not correct and a liability.
please do not tell people what is right or wrong when you dont kno yourself.
not to pick on you DH, but stop guessing outloud and spread misinfo in threads.
shit like this can get people killed.

breaker sizes are DIRECTLY related to wire size.
you cant just "up" the breaker as you feel.
thats why there are parameters that must be followed.
if you wanna burn yer own grow to the ground, cool.
dont drag others down w/ you.
a draw on a wire causes heat, heat will burn the wire if overloaded.
the bigger the wire, the more the heat dissapates due to the surface area of the wire.
this is why you run bigger wires for bigger loads.

chances are that 40a breaker has 8 awg wire on it.
you need 6 awg wire for a 50a breaker.
and a 1k hps ballast draws about 5 or so amps a piece, youll be right at the threshhold of yer 40a breaker w/ 6k.
but no more

its impossible for the 40A breaker to run 50A through it.
rest is just talk. he can try and run 30,000amps and it will stop at 40. WHAT DIFFEREANCE does it make if he puts a 1million amp breaker behind the 40 it stops at 40A!!!!

Im an idiot

 

[Cannabis]

Grow up!

PC

You can shut the fuck up any time, Sally. Nobody asked about your love for dumbasses giving dangerous advice like oversizing breakers. You wannabes all sound the same.

its impossible for the 40A breaker to run 50A through it.
rest is just talk. he can try and run 30,000amps and it will stop at 40. WHAT DIFFEREANCE does it make if he puts a 1million amp breaker behind the 40 it stops at 40A!!!!

Again: STFU till you get your own fucked up wiring job fixed and understand the very basics.

Your sister acting like it's ok to advise oversizing breakers doesn't make it safe, or even legal.

 

[PharmaCan]

You can stfu any time. Nobody asked you to express your love for dumbasses giving dangerous advice like oversizing breakers. You're another wannabe without training, certification, or professional experience. At least seeing some of your posts leads me to believe that. You wannabes all sound the same.

ROFLMAO - Isn't it past your bed time little boy? If your mommy finds you playing on the computer, you're liable to get a

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

My final words on your sorry ass - Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

PC

 

[FirstTracks]

............

 

[PharmaCan]

I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this....

I doubt it. Constructive criticism given in a mature manner seems to be pretty well accepted around here.

PC

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

the point of the breaker is to stop excessive power from flowing through the lines and causing a fire....
At least thats my basic understanding of it.......

thats why u can plug in a billion amps pull and it wont start a fire.

do I have to remind anybody about your thread from a few weeks ago where you couldn't figure out your breaker popping, a lot of very knowledgeable members like CF and 00420 tried to help you out, and you didn't listen because you weren't hearing what you wanted to hear?.

i followed everyones advice[best i could] to a "T" besides my thread was flodded with arguing, bickering, children, and contradictiary advice from smart people.
no one has more at stake then me.

besides my problem is a anomaly right now everything is working fine @ 6000W
all i had to do was pull off the cover for the subpanel. the breaker wasnt getting ventalation.

Nothing against you, just trying to watch out for everyone else around here who might think that if a member has high rep and lots of posts that the advice he or she gives is correct.

im not mad atch-a.. t

he only reason i told him to plug the 50->40 is because he CLEARLY stated he had no intentions of running enough to do damage. wasnt talking about no 9KW , besides the breaker would pop. fire stoped.


the fire starts when you put, lets say a 60 amp breaker on , say a #10 line, the breaker will never trip, untill the house around it is burnt down. but thats no where near what im telling him to do.

Cannabis - dude, grow up, get some common sense, start growing and shut the fuck up. no one was telling him to do anything that would compromise the house, or start a fire. only in your warped mind are you twisting it into
somthing its not.

how old are you? 14? 17?

 

[Cannabis]

ROFLMAO - Isn't it past your bed time little boy? If your mommy finds you playing on the computer, you're liable to get a

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

My final words on your sorry ass - Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

PC

I'm gonna tell you this one time dope head.

No matter how many feet of wire your monkey ass drags through pipe, or how many tools you load up in that bag, you are what's called a Monkey with a Meter.

I said his advice is wrong. That means he's wrong.

Period.

a Monkey with a Meter is what I said you are;

and that's fine - a man with one eye is king, in the land where all others are blind. And if you want to talk all day long to these new guys, that's fine, too. I applaud it. It means I don't have to.

But don't you EVER: no matter HOW fuckin HIGH you GET: think some day, by some slim chance, you're gonna be right, and I be wrong. Get that out of your head TODAY Monkey.

I don't give a shit about your tool bag and suspenders, or years of monkey-with-meter-isms you are going to claim make you know more. What I say, is gonna be found to be right: and all the charts, other monkeys with meters -whatever you scurry around looking for, to "verify it", is going to wind up - with me being right.

That's just the way it is. You can spit skoal, spam emoticons, or slam your pickup truck door till the glass falls out. But when I speak and you sense that maybe - I could be in error, you'd better be thinking one of two things: typo, or that you didn't know, or had forgotten that.

You're not on par with my understanding of every, single concept associated with these little wind up toys, and the power/controls that make them run. Right down, to the fucking electron, monkey.

I'm not going to follow you around looking to mince words or split hairs. You try to help people. And since TyStik left there's only you and Frank around; and Yamaha has a halfway decent grasp on the basics but I don't see him posting much lately. So I'm not interested in playing games and humiliating electricians.

But I'd better not see you roll up getting smart again or I'll show you a trick. It's called ''I make you look like exactly what you are"

A Monkey with a Meter.

I shit you not.

And since you seem like a particularly stupid monkey I'll give you my resume, and you - well, you're just a stupid monkey with a fucking meter and I don't give a shit about your worthless resume. I know yours. Year, upon year of doing the same things, over and over, and you still don't understand half the concepts of electrical engineering that brought you your blueprints for the past however many years.

2450 hours: electrical and electronic circuit engineering, applications, and analysis; analog, digital circuits, 1400 hours; Advanced wireless electronic communications: from low frequency maritime transmissions & reception to Super-High Frequency radar & satellite communications principles: 1,000 hours CLASS time.
Another 50 or so on top of that in industrial power & controls.

That was before I filled out the first job application, monkey.

6 years: wireless communications electronic technician: Grand Canyon National Park, Peabody Coal, Bureau of Indian Affairs: Navajo Indian Reservation, Hopi Indian reservation, all of Northern Arizona, some of eastern Nevada, southern Utah, western New Mexico. As the electronic technician responsible for servicing the Grand Canyon National Park I was one of only two technicians who covered nearly 2,000 square miles of some of the most rugged territory on earth: remote communications sites with hundreds of thousands of dollars' sophisticated gear to be maintained at all times, in all weather, all conditions. That included all radio communications for ambulances, search & rescue, tour guidance, fire control, forestry service, police, and Grand Canyon Management. Also serviced & maintained two-way radio communications for two, private tourist airlines at the same time just outside the gate at Tusayan. National certification a must to even APPLY for those jobs.

Industrial Electrician, polyphase, high power; controls, instrumentation: 3 years: private contract work: U.S. Navy, Boeing: 400 amp delta power transformers, instrumentation for precision lifting & handling aircraft parts.
Blueprints: count em: 300 pages thick bound in 100 page bundles. Mechanical 100, hydraulic 100, electrical 100. I FIRED electricians with 20, 30 years' experience for not being able to bend the pipe and understand the circuitry. While bending it and wiring it myself.

Industrial Electrician one year: high pressure natural gas turbine plant electrical & pipe refits while the stations REMAINED RUNNING and FULLY PRESSURIZED. 20-something inch natural gas pipeline, stations between Arizona and Nevada. Every fitting vapor & liquid tight.

Commercial Electrician: 6 years: Hospitals and University buildings primarily; other various jobs I wired up in between having a real one.

You?

Who the fuck are you, monkey?

Let's go further. Perhaps you think there's something about these fucking stoner wind up toys I've missed.

Related to this hobby: as a boy my mother opened a tropical fish shop. For 2 years I watched and learned as she managed from 1 to 5 hobby aquariums. PH, temps, general water quality.
4 years: helped manage water quality, temperature control of 30, then expanded up to 40 individual, 10/15/20 gallon aquariums on a daily basis. Thousands of pH, temperature checks on a daily basis to keep livestock healthy and thriving. Pumps, water flow & filtration, name it. All fresh water, not marine so there's a weak point.

You?

Plant propagation: during the three years it took to complete the TWO schools I put myself through while working to feed my family, I worked summers at a clone nursery: 2.7 MILLION clones: cut, stripped, dipped and planted BY HAND in sand beds shoveled in using wheelbarrows: 4 feet wide, 30(ish) feet long. A wide variety of flowering plants and shrubs cloned, maintaining the valves, misters, and general infrastructure to keep clone propagation success rate between 92-98%, with an average of about 95% success rate. After 2-3 weeks, pulled them, bundled them, packed them, shipped them. 3 acres under fabric.

Clones were stuck out in two man teams sitting on a board across the sand beds at a rate of TWO to THREE PER SECOND going into the sand. Grab a handful of toothpicks and cup of water: sit down and draw a knife across the ground, and try to stick the toothpicks into the ground at a rate of TWO to THREE per SECOND, 1/2 inch apart. Yeah that's what I said.
You'll see it CAN be done, monkey.

You?

Indoor growing experience: 3 years: dwc, swc, aeroponic, passive perlite Hempy buckets. Only for personal usage so not a lot of dope grown; about 2 pounds, in three years under a small light.
NO hydroponic nutrients. FEW bottled nutrients of ANY kind, monkey.

Taught myself the chemistry of botany, plant nutrition, simultaneously by kicking off my growing career with the determination to START OUT by hand mixing my own nutrients.

You? I'm guessing your ''wisdom'' gets poured out of a fucking bottle.

So that's my resume, monkey.

And if you doubt one fucking word roll up behind me one more time and lets play a game called "I check you, you check me" because I LOVE THAT SHIT.

I LOVE IT - and I'll prove it in a jack-jump fucking flash, with the ease of taking candy from a CHILD.

BET.

My original name here is ~KiNgMaKeR~ motherfucker. And I will SHOW YOU who's a fucking child, and how easy it is to take candy from one. BET ON IT WITH YOUR LAST FUCKING DIME.

 

[clowntown]

That book is real helpful.Go back to home de pot and get a Intermatic 40 Amp 240V Water Heater Time Switch and wire it up with outlets. It will be like 60 bucks total. No need for a sub panel unless addtional 120v outlets/power are needed.

Just noticed you had your ground wire screwed onto the mechanism plate's green screw... I always wondered WTF that was for, it was not covered in the instructions from what I could see.

I have my ground wires screwed into the first left screw (left of [1] line and [2] line)... is that wrong? What do you have going into your left-most screw covered by the plastic?

Or is it just meant for wiring convenience, and the left-most screw (covered by plastic) is connected to the timer mechanism metal plate, basically serving as the same thing with two different connection points?

 

[Johnny Rotten]

So D.H, what happens when the breaker fails to trip or blows out a terminal with the "million amps" running through or are you gonna tell me that it doesn't happen?

 

[cocktail frank]

damn, this thread got harsh.