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Where to buy/get Finola seeds from?
- Thread starter Only Ornamental
- Start date
I've bought a few baggies like yours, mostly for eating though. I would say if you repeatedly only get 25% to sprout they probably aren't last years seeds. A thin seed hull also means that the seeds get old faster, I've had that problem with seeds that have been lying around in the kitchen for more than a year.
The VIR data bank does not state if these accessions were wild or cultivated. It only mentions that they were from Kirov.
Besides, Kirov isn't situated in Siberia (not even in the broadest sense) as often mentioned. Kirov falls into the (former) Northern Russia hemp-producing area and especially in that part of Russia many different local varieties have been grown back then. It is well possible that this is some farmer's heirloom or a feral version thereof. The growth habit of today's Finola seems (from what I've read) to be very similar to the original accessions. That makes it even harder to think of it as an endogenous wild form and not a cultivar...
Well, mine did as they should and they're from the same store if I recall correctly (forgot about that before). The expiry date was I think end of this year which makes the seeds a 2012 or 2013 harvest.
It was just an idea... the only other thing I can think of is light. Seeds can somehow sense red light up to a few millimetres deep in the soil and hemp is planted that way. But again, I don't know if hemp seeds depend on light or not but would say rather not.
I had mine in a glass of water for a day, so plenty enough light...
Or it could be temperature? Mine was about 25°C during the day and 20°C at nights which is rather high for Finola.
I read a brief rant yesterday bitching about Colorado"s newly rich and famous Stanley Brothers and their Charlotte's Web high CBD weed strain. The guy claimed they ripped off Canadian Finola seed to produce Charlotte's Web. Thule, OO, do you think Charlotte's Web could be a Finola cross with a high THC plant?
6 brothers = 6 versions of what Charlotte's web is, thats what i came away with after reading their interviews/posts after the ng doc aired.
"do you think Charlotte's Web could be a Finola cross with a high THC plant."
Probably not a high thc plant....but I'll betcha, Stanley bros. had something to do with 'acquiring' Fiona (steal, barter)..... the strain to help hybridize "Charlotte's Web".
And yep, they are raking in the bucks, thanks to 60 Minutes and other media coverage. If they do procure the strain from someone....an ethical 'brother'hood would pay a royalty.
Probably not a high thc plant....but I'll betcha, Stanley bros. had something to do with 'acquiring' Fiona (steal, barter)..... the strain to help hybridize "Charlotte's Web".
And yep, they are raking in the bucks, thanks to 60 Minutes and other media coverage. If they do procure the strain from someone....an ethical 'brother'hood would pay a royalty.
I have no idea if they took a Finola... As Charlotte's Web is a pure CBD strain, it could well be. But from a purely practical point of view it would be very 'stupid' to do so (although I'm going to do exactly the same LoL) because Finola and other hemp varieties not only carry the CBD allele but also the disposition for generally low cannabinoid contents. That means, it takes quite a bit of time and effort to obtain it because you'd need at least F2 or F3 generations followed by back-crosses to the THC parent and again F2/3 likely followed by one or two back-crosses and again each time F2 or higher to finally obtain a consistently >15% CBD plant.
It would be way quicker with a CBD drug type plant, like a charas or hashish variety where you start at maybe 10-15% and not just 2-5%. That way and if all goes well, you'd need only the F2, prolly one bx and a bit of selection and stabilisation (and that alone is already something).
Sure, heterosis is nice and all, but if you have a 20% THC plant and a 5% CBD and you cross them, you'd get F1s with a 1:1 ratio THC/CBD at a total of ~10%. Make F2s and you get 1/4 pure CBD plants (and the rest for the compost) but these will have a content of ~10%. True, they'll show a rather high variability with most plants around 10% but still some at 5 or 20%. Make hundreds of F3 from the few strong ones and you should get better results but still a huge variability and a tendency towards 10% or lower (from what I've heard, the tendency is persistently towards lower %, maybe Murphy's law?). That's why you back cross to the consistently high THC parent; but then you'd get again 1:1 THC/CBD and need to do F2/3 to obtain the BD allele homozygously. Also, saying you cross the 10% CBD (because you hadn't any luck getting a high content plant with all other phenotypical expressions you seek) to the 20% THC results at best in a mean of 15% for the offspring (don't know why, though).
Apropos phenotypes: Hemp is often just one very tall stalk, no branches and no nice buds... A hybrid will tend toward that but maybe grow even bigger because of the heterosis effect. No one will buy that 'thing'
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Do you see the point?
Apropos phenotypes: Hemp is often just one very tall stalk, no branches and no nice buds... A hybrid will tend toward that but maybe grow even bigger because of the heterosis effect. No one will buy that 'thing'
.Do you see the point?
Is Charlotte's Web advertised as a 0% THC strain?
I'm not thinking smoking bud. I'm thinking concentrates mixed and matched in various combinations.
Yeah, OO, I get what you are saying about nailing down a strain with a pretty much fixed ratio. I am not, however, a skilled breeder.
I'm not thinking smoking bud. I'm thinking concentrates mixed and matched in various combinations.
Yeah, OO, I get what you are saying about nailing down a strain with a pretty much fixed ratio. I am not, however, a skilled breeder.
Don't know if they advertise something or not (at least they don't in Europe ^_^) but CW is, thank google, a roughly 0% THC and 17% CBD variety.
Fixing a ratio is no big deal as THC and CBD are linked to two alleles with an intermediate inheritance. You only get 2:0 (more like ~10-20:1), 1:1 or 0:2 (more like 1:~10-20) in accordance with Mendel's rules. What's a pain in the arse is fixing a high concentration because that is a multi-genetic, predominantly female trait also linked to things apart chromosomal DNA (e.g. epigenetic regulation, plastid DNA etc.).
Also for extracts, hash, concoctions and alike a high concentration in the plant matter is advantageous but you could do pretty well with a 5% plant and end up with a high % in the final product.
This is the first time I hear about Charlotte's web. Only ornamental pretty much sums it up. Only that the cbd content of finola is closer to 2% than 5, making the offspring even lower in cannabinoids, not to mention the insane dominance of finola genes. The first cross I ever made was a dutch hybrid x finola, I went all the way with the cross producing hybrids of only 1/8th of finola. The hempy structure and smell were still coming through in most the offspring producing bean pole structured plants.
F2 phenotypes are all over the place, some of them expressing very nice combinations of both thc and cbd. I find 2/1 thc/cbd the most pleasant, this I have concluded by mixing pure thc buds with cbd ones prior to smoking.
In general heterosis guarantees that the F1 generatíon will have a vigour going through the ceiling, but the finola genepool seems to produce healthier offspring with wld indica strains, possibly due to being genetically a closer match. Bear in mind you are creating a true hybrid by crossing the two subspecies of cannabis. Central Asia is mixed as it is, but a tropical genepool most likely never crossed paths with the northern Asian genepool. Such a mix seems to be a bit problematic and often produces freaky growth during the seedling state with leaves not developing correctly.
So, creating a stable high cbd line from finola genetics.. theoretically it's possible but to achieve any kind of standards in potency or bag appeal it would take years and years to achieve anything like Charlotte's web looks like to be.
As a learning experience crosses like these have huge value and can teach a thing or two about inheritance, but if high cbd is the goal there are better ways than finola.
Genes are harder to remove than add. Almost all of these German hemp F1's have higher total cannabinoid than their Thai drug parent. It's consistency that's bred in. So I'm inclined to doubt that CBD breeders are telling us it's impossibly hard to do don't even try out of the goodness of their hearts.
Attachments
CBD and THC is not about adding or removing genes
. Cannabinoid concentration is independent of THC/CBD alleles and a good part isn't even determined by genes!Also, I think it depends on the publication or the cross... See for example HERE chapter 4.5 on document page 73 (PDF page 79). Although, there's something odd... graph 25 C and 25 D shouldn't be like that but both should show one diagonal population; looks as if some of the Kompolti were heterozygous on the B allele (BT/BD).
BTW, from where's your graph?
Thank you, Thule and OO.
So where did Charlotte's Web come from? Doesn't sound like Finola.
Back to the question of what you breed with Finola. Tropical types probably wouldn't work well. A high elevation landrace, like an Afgan or Nepalese? But for an indoor grower maybe an indoor hybrid X Finola?
So where did Charlotte's Web come from? Doesn't sound like Finola.
Back to the question of what you breed with Finola. Tropical types probably wouldn't work well. A high elevation landrace, like an Afgan or Nepalese? But for an indoor grower maybe an indoor hybrid X Finola?
Thanks for the demoralisation
! But what the heck makes that Finola pushes through even in the F2 (in spite of selection I guess)? We may clone sheep and GMO veggies but there are still a lot of mysteries out there...Good to know that it works better with WLD x Finola crosses and that thing with the leaves might help cause I still have to try it myself
. I don't see too much why/how that sort of cross should be advantageous but I can see why one wants to cross with a tropical and cold sensible, huge growing, late flowering NLD.Learning experience always sounds good! The more bitchy the experiment, the longer the fall, the tougher the impact and hence the more you learn and the more cured you get from doing these sort of things all over again.
Naw, just kidding about the cured part... I don't believe in the saying 'burned children avoid fire'; these get sorta Stockholm syndrome, become fire fighters or pyromaniacs
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I'll try first Ciskei and Nanda Devi cause I started with these strains as my first indoor trial. I also have a Rosetta Stone and a Purple x Passion cross but I can't see any advantage of crossing either an adapted fast flowering small multi hybrid or a resistant and vigorous outdoor cross with Finola. As soon as I know if I can do a second indoor run or an outdoor grow I'll try it with other RSC strains like Nepalese and Kumaoni and the ACE strains Golden Tiger and VBxT. That way, I'll have something to keep me occupied and cover a nice range of Himalayan and African genetics. Well, the Himalayans could be special as they also contain pure CBD individuals...
You could try some 'intermediate indica-sativa landraces' like the Brazil Amazonia by WoS, Sinai by RSC, Reef's Nepalese or the China Yunnan by ACE? Or try Tom Hill's Deep Chunk; that one's a pure indica with an allegedly dominant inheritance in many crosses (and could need some genetic refreshment). Another possibility would be the Purpurea Ticinensis or the Erdbeer (Original Swiss Strawberry) because these two, according to circulating legends, contain already a part Swiss hemp genetics (at least the newer versions thereof).
PS Still look at the publication, the graphs are self-explaining
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Spear and magic helmet then? You do not get high cannabinoid content without genetic factor(s) that for one reason or another increase them, and you don't get very low cannabinoid content without sloughing those off, or a rarely seen "null" gene.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5958261&postcount=144.
You don't need to breed anything with Finola or hemp or anything else for CBDA if that's what you're after. You need a hash strain, nothing else is required. I'm only breeding ditchweed to see what happens.
Hi Joe
I didn't say 'chromosomal DNA' this time cause I already mentioned it before.
Now to the thing with no DNA: Epigenetic factors can silence or activate genes or regulate proteins which regulate genes etc. and aren't always inherited by genes themselves. And then there are the chloroplasts, mitochondria etc. which contain genetic material which does not follow Mendelian inheritance.
20 years back, you were right, though things change... according to nowadays knowledge (or yesterdays miracles and tomorrows mistakes) you can very well get more or less of something without genetic involvement and inherit that ability. Sure, you need a basis, like genes encoding for a cannabinoid synthase, but you don't need genes neither to regulate if, when and how much these enzymes are expressed nor to regulate their activity which both translate finally in concentration of cannabinoids.
I totally agree concerning the hash strain and said that already.
What kind of ditchweed do you use? Could you tell me something about yours? Any useful experience from these breeding projects?
EDIT: Found 'your' publication CLICK.
I didn't say 'chromosomal DNA' this time cause I already mentioned it before.
Now to the thing with no DNA: Epigenetic factors can silence or activate genes or regulate proteins which regulate genes etc. and aren't always inherited by genes themselves. And then there are the chloroplasts, mitochondria etc. which contain genetic material which does not follow Mendelian inheritance.
20 years back, you were right, though things change... according to nowadays knowledge (or yesterdays miracles and tomorrows mistakes) you can very well get more or less of something without genetic involvement and inherit that ability. Sure, you need a basis, like genes encoding for a cannabinoid synthase, but you don't need genes neither to regulate if, when and how much these enzymes are expressed nor to regulate their activity which both translate finally in concentration of cannabinoids.
I totally agree concerning the hash strain and said that already.
What kind of ditchweed do you use? Could you tell me something about yours? Any useful experience from these breeding projects?
EDIT: Found 'your' publication CLICK.
