where did god come from?

[moose eater]

WHOM utters the Word?

The thing is ... all is formless and silent until one Thinks. Thinking requires language. To have language one must have been taught. if god is a singularity who taught God the language he spoke in?

Then the problem is: What did a singular god bother to speak for if there was no one else to speak to?

And round and round and round it goes.

Just like the News.

Are you saying that God and the film Groundhog Day are on the same merry-go-round in this life or are we now toying with the old, "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, can (S/he) make a building so tall that even they can't jump over it"?

(Kidding a bit to some degree, but I think that even the Big Bang Theory <not Sheldon's TV show, but the theoretical event> eventually stalls on the whole, "But what was there before, and how did it come to be?").

 

[armedoldhippy]

Are you saying that God and the film Groundhog Day are on the same merry-go-round in this life or are we now toying with the old, "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, can (S/he) make a building so tall that even they can't jump over it"?

(Kidding a bit to some degree, but I think that even the Big Bang Theory <not Sheldon's TV show, but the theoretical event> eventually stalls on the whole, "But what was there before, and how did it come to be?").

the Big Bang might have just been more or less a "local event" (to God, anyway) it does explain how/why our corner of the universe is expanding in all directions simultaneously, or seems to be by observations of the stars. but, what the hell do i know? i'm just a damn hippy... a stubborn opinionated one, but yeah...

 

[HempKat]

WHOM utters the Word?

The thing is ... all is formless and silent until one Thinks. Thinking requires language. To have language one must have been taught. if god is a singularity who taught God the language he spoke in?

Then the problem is: What did a singular god bother to speak for if there was no one else to speak to?

And round and round and round it goes.

Just like the News.

Only when you try to force biblical history to conform to itself literally and in terms of how we think of things as humans. It's the bible that said he spoke the word but in the bible it also says of the word John 1:1 KJV "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Since you seem to think God must have been taught at some point like a child to utter a word, do you also believe he formed the earth and everything in it in a literal 7 days just because the bible describes it that way? I think one of the things that has caused us the most problems with religion and having a truer understanding of God is our instance on compiling books about our religion and then labeling them as the word of God. Unless God literally created a book out of thin air and gave it to man saying, "Here this is my word" or he picked some man or a group of men and said "Here, write down everything I say" neither of which happened to my knowledge then all the Holy Books are the works of man and in at least the case of the Bible many men spread out over many lifetimes. These Holy books were just the efforts of various leaders throughout history to give the masses something to hold on to and have a common understanding at times when there was little understanding. Then they get labeled as the literal word of God and some insist then on treating it as literal history which over time comes into conflict with what we've learned of the world as we gained greater knowledge and a better understanding of things. Which is before taking into consideration that the "holy books" of the most persistent religions don't agree with one another. As I said, these stories may have had some insights of truth but I never said they were the literal truth. I only mentioned the void and God because that describes the universe being empty except for the singularity that started all creation. Not because there was some being floating around in a dark empty space with a spec of incredibly dense matter that big banged into the universe when this being literally spoke. If however it all started with a void and a singularity and that had to be described by a primitive man somehow then the being speaking a word that starts it all is as good as you're likely to get. It sure seems better then the world being balanced on the backs of several elephants standing on a giant cosmic turtle.

When you study history pretty much all talk of Gods is an attempt to explain the unexplainable. What I like to do is as Science gives us a better understanding of how things came to be try to figure out how that might sort of fit with the mythology of a God. For example science teaches us that animal life in the oceans and on the planet did come about in stages thru evolution over long periods of time. So that already starts to fit with the bible creation story of things being done in different stages described as days well if there is some eternal entity responsible for this creation then who is to say what a day is to such a n entity? A day as we know it just seems to brief a period of time for an eternal being to be working in but if it was really eons and man just came up with days because that worked with his limited mind thousands of years ago that kind of makes sense. The reason I have a hard time rejecting the idea of anything like a God is because life and all it's complex diversity here on earth and the universe being as vast as it is with all the amazing forces at work within it just seems too incredible to just be some cosmic fluke. To dismiss all that as just pure random chance seems just as preposterous as the idea of an old man sitting in the clouds listening to and answering prayers and then every now and then gets pissed off at us and brings us to the edge of extinction.

 

[HempKat]

im thinking gods were aliens

I'm thinking that's true of like the Roman Gods, the Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods etc. but it doesn't seem to fir with any concept of a singular god.

 

[exploziv]

You guys trying to find god? Recipe:
Make edibles from some nice 100% sativa. Use buds or at least popcorn buds. (Trim is much more lower in thc and higher and cbd. It changes the high a lot so not useful for this.) Take mad doses of that. It will be a trip. Also, it's powerful stuff that can get dangerous if you loose control of the trip, so maybe don't listen to people on the internet for dosage advice! I will advise you to have a friendly person watch you and keep you safe, altrough the real battle will happen in your brain/trip. Can be as powerful as mushrooms or even more powerful. And it's wonderful once u manage to stay in control of a whole trip. It's also awful when you start loosing control, so.. try to relax and tell yourself its just a trip if it happens. I have tripped for many lifetimes worth of intense happenings in just
minutes of "real" time (don't worry this stuff will also make you question what is real), it's stuff happening on other timeline and in other dimensions. It may also take you back in the most detailed way to stuff and happenings from your past that you thought you forgot. It lets you access everything in your brain, super fast, and from an external point of view, that will let you see stuff you never could, but, be advised (!!!) you will meet your demons!
Also, if this fails, note that you been warned not to do it as this is not medical advice and it can really be dangerous! Certainly not for everyone! I don really want to know if you did it and failed, but for sure pm me if you did it and it helped. I would like to hear from people that managed to do it, as I know of a few friends that say they can't do it. So maybe it's not everyone that can do this, I have no ideea.
Peace and puffs!

 

[gizmo666]

You guys trying to find god? Recipe:
Make edibles from some nice 100% sativa. Use buds or at least popcorn buds. (Trim is much more lower in thc and higher and cbd. It changes the high a lot so not useful for this.) Take mad doses of that. It will be a trip. Also, it's powerful stuff that can get dangerous if you loose control of the trip, so maybe don't listen to people on the internet for dosage advice! I will advise you to have a friendly person watch you and keep you safe, altrough the real battle will happen in your brain/trip. Can be as powerful as mushrooms or even more powerful. And it's wonderful once u manage to stay in control of a whole trip. It's also awful when you start loosing control, so.. try to relax and tell yourself its just a trip if it happens. I have tripped for many lifetimes worth of intense happenings in just
minutes of "real" time (don't worry this stuff will also make you question what is real), it's stuff happening on other timeline and in other dimensions. It may also take you back in the most detailed way to stuff and happenings from your past that you thought you forgot. It lets you access everything in your brain, super fast, and from an external point of view, that will let you see stuff you never could, but, be advised (!!!) you will meet your demons!
Also, if this fails, note that you been warned not to do it as this is not medical advice and it can really be dangerous! Certainly not for everyone! I don really want to know if you did it and failed, but for sure pm me if you did it and it helped. I would like to hear from people that managed to do it, as I know of a few friends that say they can't do it. So maybe it's not everyone that can do this, I have no ideea.
Peace and puffs!

There could be substance to that
After all didn't the ancient jungle tribes,native Indians and other tribes take halucigenic drugs to meet their gods
So possibly to meet our gods we may only need to look in a mirror
Some really deep thoughts coming from folks
Makes me think I've opened a huge can of worms
But still doesn't touch on the original question
I think when the religion was founded it was the one thing they forgot to include
After all nothing starts from nothing
So if God started it all..... Who started him/her

Thanks for the replies so far folks very enlighting

 

[St. Phatty]

"God" is a figment of human imagination.

I imagine it was helpful in the Middle Ages.

A woman facing childbirth, may have lost a female relative to a prolapse (when the uterus is attached to the baby and turned inside out.)

So they tell her "don't worry, we'll see each other in Heaven", to partially comfort her.

Then the woman facing complications of childbirth holds a cross in her hand and thinks about the Jesus mythology.


Christianity is just another Jewish scam.


Not sure about Islam. I tell my Muslim friends that I'm a "secular Muslim". I support their right to develop Nuclear Technology to defend themselves against the Psychopathic IsraHell and the US.

Now that I understand that we have a worst case - 2 nations with a LONG history of terrorism have multiple H-Bombs - I completely support Nuclear Proliferation.


The US gov. tries to use the Jesus Mythology to turn anti-war people into "my country right or wrong" types.


The closest thing you will find to God is Mr. & Mrs. ET.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ET+U...clear+facility


At Northrop Grumman I had a friend who I used to do virtual 4:20's with.

No pot, just root beer and he would sing Rasta songs and try and get other manufacturing people to join our social group in the cafeteria.

In other words, a regular companion at work.


I learned investment casting from a senior engineer named Jim. He worked for companies like Aerojet, and did rocket engine testing etc.

He said that he had a different sort of regular companion at work. UFO's would sit on the ridge near his facility and seemed to watch the rocket engine tests.


There are thousands of similar reports from uniformed service personnel, many of which are impossible to discard.

Too well documented.


If you want to see what happens to your body after you die

Put a small piece of ground beef out on the window-sill.


I don't discount the possibility that separating a "soul" from a human body is possible,
as Christians seem to believe, since they believe in an after-life.

HOWEVER, if you think that can be done on someone who is Senile, and deep into Alzheimer's, you display ignorance of science.

Mark Foo is an example of someone who could have had an after-life, because he died when he was still physically and mentally vigorous. Transplants go a lot better in such situations.

He's the Hawaiian surfer who mis-judged Maverick's and died in cold water in October 1994.

 

[therevverend]

Been reading a little book by the Tiger Swami, Soham Swami, about his philosophy and understanding of reality. He despises organized religion, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, etc. Well, maybe not 'despise' because he believes it's necessary for society to function. But thinks it's all bullshit. 'If bulls could think like people they'd come up with a bull God. Who'd create a cow heaven, with abundant green grass, lots of shade, and no plows or carts to pull'. He has a 'pure consciousness' idea of what reality is.

He says if God was really eternal and limitless then how could he create something separate from himself, the earth and stars and shit. It would mean he really wasn't the first and limitless because the shit he used to create everything was also around. Then there's the idea that God created the universe out of a desire for something. But desire is created by the awareness of the nonexistence of something. Yet if God is omnipotent how can God be aware of something missing when nothing can be missing by definition? There's many, many logical fallacies in all the 'book' religions.

He goes into the idea that matter is an illusion. Since if you break something in half on and on eventually you end up with nothing. He's a non-dualist. One analogy to describe it, not his idea, is that our consciousness is like a drop of water. We're all separate but all the same. The point of spiritual practice, meditation and such, is to become aware of your existence as part of the great hole, the ocean or glacier or anus or whatever. To reach this awareness you've got to turn in, tune on, and drop out. Quit enjoying stuff like sex and life and money. Abandon your family, and friends, and name. Once you become poor enough and hungry enough you eventually go insane and merge back with the God consciousness. Makes sense, think I might try it. Not because I want to though..

 

[shithawk420]

Uhh...what?

 

[sallyforthDeleted member 75382]

Didn’t take long to go down a rabbit hole…Jeez

 

[armedoldhippy]

Didn’t take long to go down a rabbit hole…Jeez

they all do eventually. some of them on their own, others need a little "help". damn few stick to the original discussion more than a page or two...

 

[gizmo666]

they all do eventually. some of them on their own, others need a little "help". damn few stick to the original discussion more than a page or two...

i'm honestly not surprised
some people for some reason just cant respect other religions
theirs always seems prefect to them
when i dont think there is ANY out there that cant be questioned
christianity has faults
islam has faults
paganism has faults
they all do
as you say arnold some folks cant stay on the original discussion because they want to flame another religion or government????

therevverend wrote

many logical fallacies in all the 'book' religions

now theres the truth
peace

 

[armedoldhippy]

i'm honestly not surprised
some people for some reason just cant respect other religions
theirs always seems prefect to them
when i dont think there is ANY out there that cant be questioned
christianity has faults
islam has faults
paganism has faults
they all do
as you say arnold some folks cant stay on the original discussion because they want to flame another religion or government????

therevverend wrote
now theres the truth
peace

some people, for some unknown reason, have a desperate need to feel superior to some other group of people. quite a few poor white people look down on black people, thinking "well, at least we're white..." sort of, but not really, like the caste system in India.

 

[gizmo666]

the only time anyone should look down on someone
is when your helping them up

 

[VenerableHippie]

Only when you try to force biblical history to conform to itself literally and in terms of how we think of things as humans.

You and I have talked on this site before. At that time we found each other to be reasonable and sensible people. One thing I noticed was that you are not young. And neither am I. So this conversation has to be looked at thru the lens of potential Dementia. (It will be looked at like that anyway.)

Seems to me your finger is right on the common sense button but you haven't pushed it. The way I see things ... well, think about things ... is that the biggest problem when discussing god is that all we're doing is discussing god.

We're not realising anything because our brain is too busy regurgitating what society has previously put into there. It's like our thinking is white noise that prevents realising, or understanding. And when I say understanding I mean that I may understand I am not a dickhead because my family has told me how great I am all my life; or I may understand what is not god is because I am too busy regurgitating what my primary school teacher told me (cross your legs Sally in case the devil crawls in).

So the way my understanding of god and gods and man works is that god exists in silence. I have to be silent to appreciate god. I have to be in silence to behave in a godly manner. I have to be silent to feel comfortable that either there is no god or that I am god.

Now you will understand what I say to be truth if you recall the last time you understood something you recall that your understanding happened in silence. Your brain can't do two things at once. It must be silent for understanding to occur.
You will have seen someone listening to a problem and not getting it. Eyes unfocused or looking downward, jaw slack, time passing ... and suddenly they raise their left hand to the vicinity of their left ear and they yell out: I get it!

They had to wait for understanding. If they yammered and spluttered and raged about they never would have got it.

So while we're yammering here on icmag we're not understanding god.

(Now I see one of Alaska's greatest rationalist has quoted me and he will have something wordy to say too. I 'm getting tired now, Moose, I may not reply.)

 

[VenerableHippie]

Then there's the idea that God created the universe out of a desire for something. But desire is created by the awareness of the nonexistence of something. Yet if God is omnipotent how can God be aware of something missing when nothing can be missing by definition? There's many, many logical fallacies in all the 'book' religions.

Good to see yr still around! (in multiple senses.)

There's this Hindu irony quoted in Richard Alpert's book Be Here Now where it is said that Desire is the name of god's wife. God's wife walks one step behind god. And the world follows.
Now, probably because I am a lecherous soul and have a powerful base chakra, I can see quite clearly that if I was there too my attention would be focused on the movements of the buttocks of god's wife rather than on the direction we all were travelling!

Peace ...

 

[VenerableHippie]

Are you saying that God and the film Groundhog Day are on the same merry-go-round in this life or are we now toying with the old, "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, can (S/he) make a building so tall that even they can't jump over it"?

(Kidding a bit to some degree, but I think that even the Big Bang Theory <not Sheldon's TV show, but the theoretical event> eventually stalls on the whole, "But what was there before, and how did it come to be?").

I think so too, Cobber.

 

[shithawk420]

Good to see yr still around! (in multiple senses.)

There's this Hindu irony quoted in Richard Alpert's book Be Here Now where it is said that Desire is the name of god's wife. God's wife walks one step behind god. And the world follows.
Now, probably because I am a lecherous soul and have a powerful base chakra, I can see quite clearly that if I was there too my attention would be focused on the movements of the buttocks of god's wife rather than on the direction we all were travelling!

Peace ...

I don't know what the fuck that means but I lold,,! I've never seen gods wife's ass lol I mean it when I say that was funny!

 

[HempKat]

You and I have talked on this site before. At that time we found each other to be reasonable and sensible people. One thing I noticed was that you are not young. And neither am I. So this conversation has to be looked at thru the lens of potential Dementia. (It will be looked at like that anyway.)

Seems to me your finger is right on the common sense button but you haven't pushed it. The way I see things ... well, think about things ... is that the biggest problem when discussing god is that all we're doing is discussing god.

We're not realising anything because our brain is too busy regurgitating what society has previously put into there. It's like our thinking is white noise that prevents realising, or understanding. And when I say understanding I mean that I may understand I am not a dickhead because my family has told me how great I am all my life; or I may understand what is not god is because I am too busy regurgitating what my primary school teacher told me (cross your legs Sally in case the devil crawls in).

So the way my understanding of god and gods and man works is that god exists in silence. I have to be silent to appreciate god. I have to be in silence to behave in a godly manner. I have to be silent to feel comfortable that either there is no god or that I am god.

Now you will understand what I say to be truth if you recall the last time you understood something you recall that your understanding happened in silence. Your brain can't do two things at once. It must be silent for understanding to occur.
You will have seen someone listening to a problem and not getting it. Eyes unfocused or looking downward, jaw slack, time passing ... and suddenly they raise their left hand to the vicinity of their left ear and they yell out: I get it!

They had to wait for understanding. If they yammered and spluttered and raged about they never would have got it.

So while we're yammering here on icmag we're not understanding god.

(Now I see one of Alaska's greatest rationalist has quoted me and he will have something wordy to say too. I 'm getting tired now, Moose, I may not reply.)

Were definitely in agreement on some things anyway, although I can assure you there is no dementia on my side of the discussion and I really don't get the sense there is any on yours either. I also disagree with characterizing discussions on here as yammering. Maybe for you it is if you just give a knee jerk reaction (and I'm not saying you are, you do seem to take the time to think things thru). All I can speak with any certainty to is my own actions and what's behind them and I usually take the time to consider what a person has said, maybe even do a little research when needed and then I reply. I don't see that as being the yammering that generally happens when two people try to talk past one another and don't really listen or think about what's been said.

Look I'm just putting out possibilities here, I don't have the answers when it comes to God and I don't really believe anyone else does either. We have our opinions that are shaped by all sorts of factors I'll not try to break down here. In the end though they are just opinions and in the case of God usually very personalized ones at that. As I tried to indicate in a previous post I try to take what science teaches us and then see how I can make that fit with the old mythology we were raised on. You should be able to tell from what I've said I'm not one to take the Bible or religious dogma to be literal but as I said, sometimes the mythology contains a little bit of insight or a kernel of truth. I do agree that if there is a God that he's a silent God. At least in the sense he doesn't literally speak to people like two people might speak to one another on a street corner. I believe he speaks to us, if speaking is even the right term thru insight. I also don't believe he is listening to and answering prayer in real time. Since I believe he lives outside of time as we understand it he already answered all our prayers before we were even born let alone before we've even prayed. I say that because if I'm right and God is the expanding universe, lives inside of all living things and is even time itself then whatever answering of prayers he has done, he put into motion at the moment of creation before anyone existed to pray for something.

 

[armedoldhippy]

ever see the "Mash" episode where the shrink had a kid suffering from "shell-shock" (PTSD today) that thought he was God? the shrink asked him why he did not respond to his prayers. the patient said "God responds to all prayers. sometimes the answer is "no"..."