When do you P/K boost?

[Ca++]

Noooo! No Batteries!
Have to find another one lol

50p for a new probe, delivered. I paid over £50 for mine.
It's actually unusual to find someone selling service parts, and with pH probes lasting as little as 6 months for many people, I would put at least one on the shelf

Watch the dollar conversion. Get the page in your language and currency. If you go through checkout in dollars, and you don't have a dollar account, you may have charges from your bank, converting your money to dollars.

Edit: I thought you were UK, but see your power outlets now. It's odd how much different pricing is to us all. Postage, I'm sure

 

[cfl...KING]

I'm just fishing for clues myself, with that question. A few days seems reasonable. I have a PK issue I can't pinpoint, but one of them burns the hairs early, and I'm leaning towards P.


Canadian guy just spent about 75 cents on a pH and EC meter twin pack. They are really very cheap. It's a long boat ride though. It's about $1.50 to the states, in more like 10 days

27 full days, not a single red hair. At the moment everything else is already 7+ wks or in wk 2 an just starting to bud

 

[I Care]

Glad you said something or it would have arrived and this would be me.
No batteries!!! Ahh cunt! Hahaha
Should have bought on Amazon so their underpaid drivers would come tear up the driveway some more. Hahahah

Hopefully it’s not watch batteries, but yes it is good to know that model is common and I will be able to get replacement probes. Good looking out mate.

 

[I Care]

27 full days, not a single red hair. At the moment everything else is already 7+ wks or in wk 2 an just starting to bud View attachment 18928150

Thats going to be good puffage.

I'm just fishing for clues myself, with that question. A few days seems reasonable. I have a PK issue I can't pinpoint, but one of them burns the hairs early, and I'm leaning towards P.


Canadian guy just spent about 75 cents on a pH and EC meter twin pack. They are really very cheap. It's a long boat ride though. It's about $1.50 to the states, in more like 10 days

You sure you didn’t brush against the buds or let them touch each other? That’ll do it! Even leaves brushing it if you’re rotating them for lighting. Another thought, warm void in the garden.

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Here's my take on "less is more". https://www.icmag.com/threads/osmoc...peasy-complete.18126434/page-13#post-18482117

Yeah, less is more. There's been times when I didn't add Ca and the plants did just fine. Forums are an interesting study in individual and group psychology. A member starts some "gotta have XYZ" and the rumor mill runs with it. I remember when Mg was The Thing. Everyone had to have epsom salts. Now folks are fixated on Ca, abusing it, and their plants show it.

 

[GF-Z]

I never use any P/K boosters. I use inexpensive nutrients from start to finish in mild to moderate levels. There is absolutely no need to do anything more.

One thing I've found with many that overcomplicate their feeding is so many are constantly chasing one thing or another. Wasting time testing runoff, pH, etc... Just feed your plants a basic nutrient from start to finish and they should stay healthy from seed to harvest. A majority of issues people have is due to overfeeding too much of something which causes issues with other nutrients. Then many think they have a deficiency and dump more stuff on their plants exasperating the problem. In the end they end up running around in circles like a dog chasing it's tail.

Cannabis does not require a dozen bottles of additives and boosters delivered at this week or that week of growth. It's one of the easiest plants to grow from my experience. Just give it a good environment, plenty of light, any basic nutrient, and it will thrive. There's no need for complicated feeding charts or overpriced bottles. If you really think you need a booster save yourself some money and just get some monopotassium phosphate for around $10 a pound for water soluble hydroponics grade. You can also get potassium sulfate 5 pounds for around $20. With that you can make gallons and gallons of those $25 one liter bottles of bloom booster.

Haha, yeah its not necessery, but for example:

Silica - makes plant resistive to mould, experiments being done, thats a fact. Silica is never included in any nutrient as far as ive seen .

Fulvic/humic - helps in chelating microelements and uptake, especially in soil.

Mollases - feed micro organism = roots gets to its full potential, improved nutrient exchange (especially in organic growers, where nutrients are absorbed differently than mineral ones)

Root stimulators - have special hormones which signals plant to expand rootzone +essential elements for the momment roots doing its job.

Recently found a study, where Calcium uptake is stimulated by presence of specific amino acid chains in the medium.

Enzymes, which helps to brake down dead roots preventing from futher rot and invitation of parasites



So this is the point, its not essential, but there is big difference between 0.5 gram per watt and 2grams per watt of same quallity bud. Thats why some people tend to invest into having full plant potential. But there is some newbies which tend to forget or basically cant understand, that stuffing 200$ worth of boosters and additives, hormones into plant requires adequate amount of lightning/air exchange/humidity/co2 and temperature to be able to have a benefit and produce proper amount of energy and distribute it correctly for great results.
Thats why there is big difference between PRO grower with 5000$ investment and amateur like me, growing weed in water bottles on led strips expecting to get some good stuff. This is the difference.
(in my case led strips are working quite good )

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

i know, I’m lucky to have the knowledge of how to save it. so i still have something to work with.

Once the leaves of an older plant are damaged, it won't recover, production will suffer. Your leaf issues suggests you've applied too much salts of one kind or the other. You need to start and stay with a decent, balanced NPK and micros package and quit throwing stuff at your faves. You're killing them. You're fishing.

Osmocote Indoor-Outdoor Plus and Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro are great examples of a well designed, one part, complete foods for organic growers. Recommend you check out the analysis as an example of where you should be in your feeding routine. I have used this 9-3-6 from start to finish with excellent results.

Contrary to forum "advice", this is a perfectly logical approach botanically - leaves produce plant tissue via photosynthesis, N supports leaf production and maintenance, therefore with proper care you'll have healthy foliage until the day of harvest and will get an optimum crop, all things considered.

Here's a ditty I wrote many years ago regarding Plant Moisture Stress. Hope it helps to get you grounded. I bolded some of it for emphasis.

Plant Moisture Stress - symptoms and solutions (revised May 30, 2011)

Quite often I hear groans from folks having leaf problems: "Help, my leaves are cupping and the leaf edges are turning brown!" or, "My plant's leaf tips are curling down and turning black ....what's wrong?" Unless insect damage has occurred or the plant is suffering from a severe case of calcium deficiency, the plant is trying to tell you that it is water stressed. It's hard to tell exactly what the culprit is, and unfortunately the solution the grower chooses many times is not the right one. A mis‑diagnosis only serves to make matters worse by promoting further decline. I'll try to cover some of the more common causes that can induce these common symptoms and try to offer a few simple solutions. The ultimate and correct solution is in the hands of the grower.

1. Over‑fertilizing ‑ the most common cause of leaf cupping aka leaf margin rolling, leaf margin burn, leaf tip curl/burn and copper colored round spots is the overzealous use of too much plant food in relationship to factors such as plant vigor and rate of growth. The first unit of a plant to show moisture stress is the leaf at its margins and/or tips, reflected by margin rolling (cupping) or burning. A hard, crispy feel to the leaf frequently occurs as well, as opposed to a soft and cool feel of a happy leaf. When you have a high concentration of salts in solution (or in the root medium) compared to lower salinity levels found in the plant's tissue, water is actually drawn out of the plant across the root gradient in order to fix the PPM imbalance. IOW, this is a natural, osmotic response that serves to equalize salinity levels on both sides of the root's epidermal gradient. Back off on the amount and/or frequency of plant food. Too much plant food can also burn the roots, especially the sensitive root tips and hairs, which then creates another set of problems such as nutrient deficiencies. A note for the bio folks ‑ as soil dries, the concentration of the remaining salts rises further exacerbating the problem. Leech (flush) your pots once in a while to get rid of excess salts.

2. High Heat ‑ the plant is losing water via it's leaves faster than what can be replaced by the root system. The leaf responds by leaf margin cupping or rolling (up or down) in order to conserve moisture. A good example is reflected by the appearance of broad‑bladed turf grass on a hot summer day, high noon, with low soil moisture levels ‑ the leaf blade will roll in and the grass will take on a dull, grayish‑green appearance. Upon sunrise when moisture levels have returned to normal, the leaf blade will be flat. Lower the heat and concentrate on developing a large, robust root system by practicing sound plant culture. An efficient and effective root system will go a long way to prevent heat induced leaf dessication and leaf margin curling by supplying sufficient moisture for good plant health. One short episode of high heat is enough to permanently destroy leaf tissue and cause a general decline in the leaves affected, which often occurs to leaves found at the top of the plant located to close to HID lamps. The damaged leaf (usually) does not recover, no matter what you do. Bummer in the summer. One can only look to new growth for indications that the problem has been corrected.

3. High Light ‑ yes, it's true, you can give our faves too much light. Cannabis does not receive full sun from sunrise to sunset in its natural state. It is shaded or given reduced light levels because of adjacent plant material, cloudy conditions, rain, debris and dust collection on the leaf surface, twilight periods of early morning and late afternoon, and light intensity changes caused by a change in the seasons. Too much light mainly serves to bleach out and destroy chlorophyll as opposed to causing leaf cupping, but it often goes hand‑in‑hand with high heat for indoor growers. Again, back off on the light and concentrate on developing/maintaining an efficient and robust root system. Keep in mind that all but equatorial material receives less light during flowering than during the vegetative stage.

4. Overwatering ‑ this practice only serves to weaken the root system by depriving the roots of proper gas exchange. IOW, the roots are not getting enough oxygen which creates an anerobic condition causing root decline and root rot with the end result showing up as leaf stress, stunted growth, and in severe cases, death. <gasp!> A lot of times folks think the plant is not getting enough plant food (which it can't under such adverse conditions), they add more nutes as a "curative", and just add insult to injury.

5. Underwatering ‑ not only is the plant now stressed due to a low supply of adequate moisture, but carbohydrate production has been greatly compromised (screwed up). Step up the watering frequency, and if need be, organic growers may need to soak the pot from the bottom up until moisture levels reach an even consistency throughout the medium especially with mixes that are heavy in peat. If severe, a little surfactant (1 teaspoon per gallon of liquid Ivory dish soap) added to the drench will help return the organics to a normal moisture retentive state. If the pot feels light to the lift ‑ it's time to water. Don't wait until the soil pulls away from the sides of the pot or leaves droop before you water. Soil should stay moist (not wet) at all times. Wet/dry cycles cause more problems than you think they might solve.

Happy gardening,
Uncle Ben

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

i know, I should have ordered strips months ago too.

What kind of strips, pH? Waste of money......

The typical store bought soil mix is pH balanced, fine for cannabis. Will be slightly acidic, then again there's another thing folks fret over because "I heard....."

I just throw stuff together like I said and don't worry about it. I DO have a highly accurate pH meter that I calibrate. I use it when we harvest my vineyard as TA and pH is pretty important in winemaking. Usually it's necessary for me to add tartaric acid to my must before pitching the yeast culture.




Uncle Ben

 

[Ca++]

Thats going to be good puffage.


You sure you didn’t brush against the buds or let them touch each other? That’ll do it! Even leaves brushing it if you’re rotating them for lighting. Another thought, warm void in the garden.

Oh yeah, I have been logging the spread for a few years now. It always starts within a couple of days, but the speed the hairs then turn, is varied. It might not be the PK, but I know historically, that a full dose of 13/14 means death for some buds over night. So I'm fixated on that, but have been through the nutrients individually, taking a different one to low levels each crop. I can't find it.

The death bit.. a few friends agree, that small unformed buds up the main stem, below the canopy, will harden and dry out overnight. Following a canna bottle dose of PK. I forget the numbers, but it's a lot of PK.

It's good to see another grower at 27 days without anything yet. Though it does look like a longer flowering strain. So isn't conclusive, but is certainly good to see.

Batteries... yes. Gonna need 4 watch ones. It's the one gold coin store, for a card of them. Or a 12v remote fob battery, is usually a little stack of them. Or.. batteries cost more than the meter.

 

[SurveillanceSkunk]

You are not feeding a huge amount.
I'm going to presume this 1.9-2.6-3 is P&K as there oxide value. Elementally, 1.9-1.1-2.5 and used 2.5ml/l that's 47N 28P 63K
I wouldn't expect P or K to be deficient, before N. So it's unlikely I would think about PK. Which will just depress N further.
Plants look at N to get an idea of where they are heading. It's an important part of crop steering. I can't judge your composts input, or even say what compost it is. I do know I was putting 200ppm N into my last compost run though. However your feed profile would give far too much P, with good N and K numbers. 30ppm P has been said to be enough, so adding more is starting to get frowned upon.

Looking at this feed level, and your plant pic in the first post, I would be bumping up this base feed, not just the PK. Though I would be interested to see the bottles advice, as you don't seem entirely sure about your maths. The bottle would be nice confirmation, if it's talking double

The studies have confirmed 11.5ppm to be enough to grow Bugsbee/Buildasoil/Kis/youtube grade weed.


But if you want to grow quality, more like 90ppm. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8320666/

Careful which experts you follow. Most don't know weed.

 

[I Care]

I found the issue is for sure the 6-4-4 I am using. I mixed it at 2tsp/gallon and after many weeks of using that exclusively. I am getting the same issue with the baby that I had with number one. It happens if I let the soil dry out, so apparently chelated food is really (edit: NOT) good if you have to restore the soils retention power.

I’m going to flush it. Then I will make a balance 1-1-1 nutrient blend with what I have because that’s all I’ve got access to at the moment. Then I will re-introduce nutrients when the soil shows it’s ready. . I do have this in a 300c, but it did not show signs of being root bound before I let it dry out.

So at least I’m repeating behaviors to understand what mistakes I am actually making.

 

[I Care]

@Old Uncle Ben


Another picture of the next one in line.

Had to get in there to the big fan leaves to show you.
This happened over the course of 8 hours after strictly offering 6-4-4 @~2.5ml/l or 2Tsp/Gal. It begged for water and I made it eat too. You have provided some excellent information. You’re sharing of various arborist experiences rewrite older grow attitudes. Your advice and approach is really beginning to grow on me. In terms of risk vs reward. I have a couple things I moved out, I’m going to move them back in just to keep them alive. I want to try this same strain side by side, indoor and outdoor, with your omnicort approach as well as the @CharlesU Farley approach. Then match that approach with what I end up when this plant finishes.

Maybe I’ll end up joining you guys in your effort; to convert the masses.
It will be a fun experiment if I don’t have some other normal life breakdown at some point here with everything else I got going on. Got the shit coming in from all angles, can't even do what I want to do with all the things going on everywhere. Deep in the shit with this whole moving away from home thing,

 

[Old Uncle Ben]

Hope you find your happy medium.

 

[I Care]

Hope you find your happy medium.

Spoken like a true edit: horticulturist.

 

[Solidopc]

The best way I can advise. It's better to underfeed than overfeed. It's easier to correct the underfeed.

Tbh I was all about different nutes & stuff when I started back in day. I only use canna a+b & pk13/14 last 3 weeks of flower, usually week 5 to 8. But only one dose each week. You can have the best bud with just those. Rhizo is good for veg, but I'm not trying to spend more money unless I can see a difference. Rhizo is good for roots. But I only use in veg. |

Less is more.

 

[cfl...KING]

I will say I did notice the plants start to focus on budding sooner an stop stretching sooner when adding pk13/14 starting week 3 vs week 4. This is a benefit/good thing for me since I have a 4' height limit

 

[cfl...KING]

The best way I can advise. It's better to underfeed than overfeed. It's easier to correct the underfeed.

Tbh I was all about different nutes & stuff when I started back in day. I only use canna a+b & pk13/14 last 3 weeks of flower, usually week 5 to 8. But only one dose each week. You can have the best bud with just those. Rhizo is good for veg, but I'm not trying to spend more money unless I can see a difference. Rhizo is good for roots. But I only use in veg. |

Less is more.

Do half dosages of rhizo in flower untill week 6 then just cannazym. Huge difference in roots, they will continue to soak up more water later into flower.

 

[Solidopc]

You rate cannazym that much when used with rhizo?

I don't usually use cannazym, but did in veg & start of flower with these. I havnt noticed a huge difference between just rhizo.

Its cheap enough. I got gifted a 250ml bottle of canna boost by the growshop. Never used it before & it's not cheap to buy.

You used that before or just pk13/14?

 

[cfl...KING]

Cannazym an rhizo will keep the roots fresh an bright white all the way thru harvest. They will soak up more water/nutes later in flower an continue to swell thru week 8-9.

Canna boost is more for terps and over all bag appeal. Never noticed a difference in yield without it but a huge quality difference. It's night and day.

 

[Brother Nature]

@I Care Did I read a few pages back that you are using the water from your dehumidifier to water these plants?