Orange's Greenhouse
Active member
bUt YoU cAn'T mAkE tHeM fOr ThAt PrIcE.
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What's your go-to breeder nowadays?
- Thread starter GrayZone
- Start date
Genghis Kush.
Active member
Not the UK
but in the hills of California it’s like making bird seed
markets become legal, less risk, prices go down. Margins tighten.
Prices go down players create economies of scale. Margins tighten further.
Big players buy up little players.
It’s the alcohol industry after prohibition play book.
The days of US$100 10 packs are almost finished.
Working solo (or in small crews), in illegal jurisdictions, in western countries, Indoors, add costs.
Wise breeders will move to legal jurisdictions and do work in green houses and outdoors at scale with low cost labour eg what GHSC is up to in Thailand.
Buy up these little guys seeds now and freeze em cause they Probably won’t be in business in 10 years time they won’t be able to compete in price and more than likely quality too.
What happened to most of the small time moonshiners after prohibition ? Gone. Big boys ran em out of business more effectively than the cops ever could have.
Prices go down players create economies of scale. Margins tighten further.
Big players buy up little players.
It’s the alcohol industry after prohibition play book.
The days of US$100 10 packs are almost finished.
Working solo (or in small crews), in illegal jurisdictions, in western countries, Indoors, add costs.
Wise breeders will move to legal jurisdictions and do work in green houses and outdoors at scale with low cost labour eg what GHSC is up to in Thailand.
Buy up these little guys seeds now and freeze em cause they Probably won’t be in business in 10 years time they won’t be able to compete in price and more than likely quality too.
What happened to most of the small time moonshiners after prohibition ? Gone. Big boys ran em out of business more effectively than the cops ever could have.
Genghis Kush.
Active member
edit.
Thailand is wonderful
Thailand is wonderful
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hector_100
Member
t
thats a good deal, crockett is one of my favourite breeders, i always have found a wide variety of pheno's in his work. i think he does his breeding outside though, which would help bring down the cost
Ca++
Well-known member
The UK is the worlds biggest exporter of Medical cannabis products. Mostly to the US.
100% of medical cannabis used in the UK, is imported.
If you want to grow cannabis in the UK, you really need to be in government. Married to the cannabis apposing Prime Minister has proven successful.
The chances of getting a license to grow cannabis for the seeds that have always been legal in the UK, are zero. Because we are not married to the PM. Other than that, it would be perfectly legal.
All the above sounds like absolute forum nonsense, but is actually true. The UK can produce seeds in greenhouses, and does. But you have to be above the law, to make the law work for you
GrayZone
Active member
I did a mini grow about a year ago, like 2x2, 250 HPS, got a few cuttings of Serious kush from Serious seeds. That thing hits like a shotgun slug, uniform, very easy to grow. So that's that in the KO department.
Talking about Serious seeds, I'll go with them. Easily available in Amsterdam, I can even pick the beans up from their office if a strain is not available in shops. And Simon seems to be more in love with breeding and his plants than money, one of rare EU breeders that didn't go the white label route. So I'll rather give him some money than a canna big business company. Besides that, they have some nice old school stuff which I like, and a respectable track record of breeding top-notch, legendary strains. Tested and trusted.
aCBD
Well-known member
Just want to set it right to not be misunderstood.
I respect the work dubi is doing and i think the same like you, it's just a loose definition of terms that are being used.
The N.C. link was shared for information purposes and not to hate on anybody.
GrayZone
Active member
That's called monopoly.
For a long time we're out of Kansas with this whole thing, it's not anymore the time of hippies coming back from India and Afganistan and vets back from Vietnam, bringing seeds they got along the way, and sharing them back home with friends who started to mess around with crossing strains.
Where there's money, there's greed, where there's a market there are people who will cater to market's wants. That's just gonna get more pronounced with further legalization.
So what you said, "Buy up these little guys seeds now and freeze em...", that was my thinking when I looked into it after a lengthy brake. I'd like to have a collection in fridge, cos at this tempo of pumping out "new" strains, haze, NL, skunk#1, AK, WW...all those "foundation" strains will be a distant memory in near future. Even now, it's questionable does anyone have and who has pre 2000 genetics. There should be an effort to conserve and preserve.
Genghis Kush.
Active member
ACE produces some good seeds. That is undeniable .Just want to set it right to not be misunderstood.
I respect the work dubi is doing and i think the same like you, it's just a loose definition of terms that are being used.
The N.C. link was shared for information purposes and not to hate on anybody.
their marketing teams loose use of words is something else
Exactly the same way the booze barons did it. It’s the same play book from a business perspective imo.
yeah it will head towards an oligopoly.
100% to everything else you said.
Making weed legal makes it less cool somehow imo.
My bet is user numbers paradoxically drop some time after full legalisation. People will just get bored of it and move on as trends change. Of course there will still be core heads like us around though
GrayZone
Active member
Thailand backpedaling on weed? I think it ain't happening, there's more weed shops than 7/11, and there's a 7/11 at every freaking corner in Thailand.
Flying there just after NYs, so let's see...
Fuck yeah, if it ever gets legal in my little EU serfdom-country, I have about 3 acres of land, and guess what's gonna go there...
Flying there just after NYs, so let's see...
Fuck yeah, if it ever gets legal in my little EU serfdom-country, I have about 3 acres of land, and guess what's gonna go there...
Orange's Greenhouse
Active member
There are many small destilleries and wine makers all over europe and probably north america.
You have to remember that the market mostly asks for the same. Special products, with interesting flavours, have trouble to sell, no matter what market you're in. If you're in an illegal market and your unique selling point is that you have seeds in stock... then you have a trouble surviving. It's the same with brick and mortar stores competing with drop shippers.
Agreed on all of that. MJ will always be #1.
But yeah, I disagree with him about the genetic example he was making. You absolutely get much, much better chances of another phenom athlete by starting with elite athlete genetics. You see it all the time in football in particular, where an elite player will have a whole troop of sons who follow after him and become elite players themselves. I see it all the time (I'm a pretty big football guy). I could probably fill a page with examples, just off the top of my head.
Orange's Greenhouse
Active member
That genetic example of him is right. It's called regression to the mean. The simplest example is that tall people have average sized children.
Regarding your example I doubt that is due to genetics. It's nurture mostly. There are many sports where you have to start at 3 or 4 years to have a shot at the big leagues, it's expensive aswell.
Hiddenjems
Well-known member
Look up intelligence distribution among humans. You’ll find something similar. For a person with an Iq over 160, the distribution is the same for the general population as from intelligent parents.
Hiddenjems
Well-known member
In the same environment it’s all genetics.
I’ve actually taken statistics and probability.
I’ll take more rolls of the dice over better odds on less rolls every time.
For example, you need to roll a 5 to win. Would you rather roll 1 six sided die , or get 5 rolls with a 10 sided?
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LHC
Well-known member
In my personal experience, his description is both elaborate and correct. And when looking at other growers experience on the forum, it also seem so. He also aids grower with accurate help that only an experienced grower and breeder with knowledge to the specific strains could do.
Since I initially said that New Caledonia was a landrace, I feel like I have to clear things up. I was wrong. Dubi agrees with you. He thinks it is not a landrace. In the interview in Ep.56 of The Potcast, he explains the process of cleaning up this strain, and states:
"To be honest about the origins of the genetics, I think it's not so linked really with a landrace. would say the finished product has quite thai qualities in the smoke, like especially in the taste. It's a salt, lime, lemony taste that is quite common on thai landraces. And the effect is quite thai-like very clear up.
But the flower structure is more a bit more like Mexican or like American sativa. It's not so loose like the thais. The thais usually have a very loose flower structure, very foxtail, not dense.
A real pure Thai is never dense. But this one makes quite dense buds for a pure sativa. Traits, flowering structures that I have seen more in certain Mexicans or even more modern Colombians. But yeah, my feeling is somewhat like a Thai-American sativa mix."
Regarding your statement about Dubi not beeing a breeder, and not growing weed anymore, I think you should read this transcript from the interview. I find it very hard to believe a marketing only person would and could make up this story.
Wow, that's a really nice selection you have there. Can you tell us a little bit about the New Caledonian? That sounds very rare.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a new Sativa line that we worked on last year, and it has been released this year. It came from a grower through an interchange, a swap of genetics, I did with him. He was a very established grower there in New Caledonia.
He was interested also in our Sativa, so we did an interchange. He sent me a lot of seeds from the island, the sativas he grew up there. Yeah, I think we did the seed swap around 2012, and only at this time, I consider the seeds were getting too old, or so it was time to germinate them and explore a bit the genetics.
Knowing that we work with landraces with sativas, he sent me a lot of seeds to work them and to refine the line and spread the genetics. Honestly, I didn't know what to expect at the beginning. Certainly it was something really new.
I don't know how we will link with other genetics I'm more familiar with. And yes, we grew like last year, we started like 100 plants of the New Caledonia. I have like three different seed lots, two with more seeds.
It was the seed lot A and the seed lot B. We took like 50 seeds from each and grew all of them together indoors. And yes, initially, they grow like really tropical sativa, very slow to reach the sexual maturity to show sex, indoors they grow really big, very big grows.
And yes, I was thinking that we had something really, really tropical on hands. When we switched them to flower, they also took their sweet time to really start to flower. So yeah, they were indeed really tropical or at least subtropical.
Yes, because New Caledonia is around 20 in the south hemisphere latitude, and it's not really very close to the equator, but it's subtropical. And yes, once the plants start to flower, yeah, it was really tropical. It took their time to flower.
We found like maybe a third part of the population was hermaphrodite. So yes, this is very typical when you explore new landraces, especially Sativa landraces from the tropics. It's quite common to find a lot of hermies in the first P1 generation.
And yeah, we eliminate the hermaphrodites. We saw some plants adapting better to indoor growing, reacting better, so start to form resins, showing terpenes also. So we had a chance to start to evaluate which one were more promising.
We clone, when we start to eliminate the hermaphrodite, we start to clone all the rest of the plants that were sexually stable. Like it's quite common also with tropical sativas is that usually the female to male ratio is very high. That means that you find maybe 70-80% of females and the rest only males within these two, also a lot of hermaphrodites, in this case a third part.
So yes, at the end we remove half of the plants after eliminate the hermaphrodites and plants that after many, many, many, many weeks didn't respond, didn't do anything or comparing with other were lacking of resin or terpenes. So yeah, at the end we came out like with 30+ really nice females and five sexually firm males. And then we open pollinate them with the fine males, all the females.
At the same time, as I told you, we had all clones from all these more promising females in the mother room as backup copies. And yes, and then the reproduction was a success. We pollinated all the more than 30 females that were sexually firm.
The males were sexually firms too. And then when they finished the reproduction, when they were ripe, I was able to evaluate better which one were more resinous and with better terpenes, although they were seeded.
So the most promising ones, I brought clones to outdoor growing to do a sinsemilla cycle. That means without pollination, to evaluate properly the flower without seeds. Outdoors, which is, I feel that this strain express itself better outdoors than indoors, at least in this initial generation.
So yes, it was surprising because we moved the clones a bit late in August, which is a bit late for planting, even for tropical sativas, but they catch up very, very fast. The small clones grow up almost like two meters. And around late October, they were already finishing.
Yeah, maybe they will need one, two weeks more, but they reacted outdoors much faster and better than indoors, yes. And at that time, when they were starting to ripe, my God, I was really excited because I started to smell like incredible, refined, fruity aromas. The resins were very good.
In the plants, we were testing outdoors, so our selection were in the right direction regarding quality too. So yes, at the end, we ended up evaluating eight females, the most promising females from the seed reproduction. We evaluated them outdoors without seeds.
Then we started to smoke them. We brought them to the lab for the cannabinoids and terpene analysis. I already did some genetic analysis a few years back.
So yes, with all the smoking tests, the growing experience, the seed reproduction, we decided we were extremely excited about this new genetics. When I started to smoke it, I was, wow, it has been so long that I don't feel this quality of high in the sativa. Like you smoke it and everything becomes super clean, vivid.
You feel like the colors are more intense, but not with distortion. Like everything is more alive. The sound also, you can hear even the farther sound super strong.
Then you feel like a big energy growing up from inside. Like you become creative, connected with your surroundings. You feel uplifted, motivated.
Your psyche is well focused. It's a very, very good quality high, very, very good. To be honest about the origins of the genetics, I think it's not so linked really with a landrace.
I would say the finished product has quite thai qualities in the smoke, like especially in the taste. It's a salt, lime, lemony taste that is quite common on thai landraces. And the effect is quite thai-like very clear up.
But the flower structure is more a bit more like Mexican or like American sativa. It's not so loose like the thais. The thais usually have a very loose flower structure, very foxtail, not dense.
A real pure Thai is never dense. But this one makes quite dense buds for a pure sativa. Traits, flowering structures that I have seen more in certain Mexicans or even more modern Colombians.
But yeah, my feeling is somewhat like a Thai-American sativa mix. That makes sense to the audience regarding the finished product. And it's a very interesting line.
LHC
Well-known member
Most people agrees that Serious makes good genetics. I have only grown Warlock and Kali Mist. Warlock was an easy grow, but for me, the high was uninspiring. My friends liked it though. Kali Mist was nice, but I had much better sativa experiences with Ace sativas. But, I am a better grower now than I was when I grew KM
