What year was Indica used for hybrids in Mexico?

[Lugo]

I think you mean TIME magazine and that is by no means any reference on truth in this matter or any other as far as i'm concerned.

Regardless its an interesting possibility. More so for me that have found totally Thai phenotypes come up once in a blue moon among my Punto Rojo.

In the long run in that scenario the introduced variety would just be absorbed by the sheer numbers and huge genetic pool of the native species and thats just science.

My experience is that the plant has remained the same.

I do definetely get the impression that certain folks want to push a narrative that Colombian landrace Cannabis is not Colombian. Ive heard the same shpeal with the Afghan varieties being introduced as well and of Colombian BLDs yaddayada but none of those theories hold water culturally, historically or scientifically in reference to Colombian landrace Cannabis.

I do appreciate the post though!

I'm gonna go ahead and do a re-read. From what I read its pretty hideous drug war propaganda where were basically all these Colombian families took it upon themselves to invade the US with drugs, crime and violence jaja while at the same time getting guidance on what to plant from nameless 'traffickers' who appear with SE Asian genetics.

Its an interesting story but thats all it is.

If I find that Thai Alacran phenotype ill definetely let you know!

Theres an airport 20 mins away and you might know about our hometown hero Carlos Lehder so anything is possible I guess!



I think they tried maybe!

Only a gringo- I mean a Colombian would do something like that.

When words fail go with an emoji.

Amazing how people that don't live here, never have, don't know our history know dic* about Colombian Cannabis or our drug war history think they are experts on the subject by using a 1979 TIMES magazine (magazine they've probably never even read in their lives lol) just drug war propaganda probably ghost written by the CIA to try to make the point that Colombian Cannabis is a hybrid and that its Mexican or Thai influenced.

Talk about ignorance and desperation!

Nevermind that plant biology doesn't even work that way even if it were the case.

Colonialism in Cannabis exists.

 

[Lugo]

Since you like to read so much here an actual document with references and an actual name attached @mexcurandero420

I also included the link to the entire paper which I recommend to anyone that want doesn't 'bro science' Colombian history.

LA "PREHISTORIA" DE LA MARIHUANA EN COLOMBIA: CONSUMO Y CULTIVOS ENTRE LOS AÑOS 30 Y 60

Theres also a summary in English por si acaso no hablas Español

Enjoy!

 

[mexcurandero420]

I think you mean TIME magazine and that is by no means any reference on truth in this matter or any other as far as i'm concerned.

Regardless its an interesting possibility. More so for me that have found totally Thai phenotypes come up once in a blue moon among my Punto Rojo.

In the long run in that scenario the introduced variety would just be absorbed by the sheer numbers and huge genetic pool of the native species and thats just science.

My experience is that the plant has remained the same.

I do definetely get the impression that certain folks want to push a narrative that Colombian landrace Cannabis is not Colombian. Ive heard the same shpeal with the Afghan varieties being introduced as well and of Colombian BLDs yaddayada but none of those theories hold water culturally, historically or scientifically in reference to Colombian landrace Cannabis.

I do appreciate the post though!

I'm gonna go ahead and do a re-read. From what I read its pretty hideous drug war propaganda where were basically all these Colombian families took it upon themselves to invade the US with drugs, crime and violence jaja while at the same time getting guidance on what to plant from nameless 'traffickers' who appear with SE Asian genetics.

Its an interesting story but thats all it is.

If I find that Thai Alacran phenotype ill definetely let you know!

Theres an airport 20 mins away and you might know about our hometown hero Carlos Lehder so anything is possible I guess!



I think they tried maybe!

Only a gringo- I mean a Colombian would do something like that.

Well you remind me of that guy a few years back, who tried to convince us here on this forum, that Hawaii had landraces that went back to the arrival of the British fleet to Hawaii with Joseph Banks who gave Indian hemp seeds to the Hawaiians.

Mel Frank did send some genetics like Cambodia and Colombia to Phylos. Both were related.

Cambodia currently has no clones in the Galaxy. It has 18 relatives in the Galaxy.

The list of genetic relatives is ordered in descending relatedness. If a number appears to the right of the variety name, that denotes the number of clones of that variety that are currently in the Phylos Galaxy.

If you can show me pictures of the 1930s, 40s of Colombian people smoking, selling like I found from Mexico. Till now I speak of Colombian cultivars, not landraces.

 

[Lugo]

Well you remind me of that guy a few years back, who tried to convince us here on this forum, that Hawaii had landraces that went back to the arrival of the British fleet to Hawaii with Joseph Banks who gave Indian hemp seeds to the Hawaiians.

Mel Frank did send some genetics like Cambodia and Colombia to Phylos. Both were related.

Cambodia currently has no clones in the Galaxy. It has 18 relatives in the Galaxy.

The list of genetic relatives is ordered in descending relatedness. If a number appears to the right of the variety name, that denotes the number of clones of that variety that are currently in the Phylos Galaxy.

View attachment 19012028
If you can show me pictures of the 1930s, 40s of Colombian people smoking, selling like I found from Mexico. Till now I speak of Colombian cultivars, not landraces.

Again Phylos is not an end all be all of anything in my opinion but I understand what your getting at.

I agree with you about the Hawaiian landraces bit, its a tricky situation when you have what is considered the landrace 'mechanics' at play lets say but not the time and with the constant stream of new genetics being introduced.

So maybe the pigs can be considered landrace in Hawaii but the herb not quite.

I posted a paper (attached) documenting Colombian Cannabis use in the 30's which includes police reports mostly, photographs not likely or hard to come by before the late 40's-50's

I'm reading some old documents and state sponsored studies on Brasilian Cannabis use atm now that are from the 50's but i'm still working on the translation.

Its a bit later (1958) but there are some cool pics.

 

[53grayeyes]

I must be confused. What makes any of you think that hybridization wasn't going on in the 17th or 18th century? Somehow those people couldn't figure out how to cross this short version with that long version?

Oh, and it only happened on this date or that.

 

[mudballs]

Cuz the population density and societal interaction during that time doesn't support that explosive contamination theory

 

[53grayeyes]

Ignore the facts, that's the way to go.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Much _respect_ to Lugo and mexcurando420 for disagreeing without being fucking disagreeable. People _learn_ from these discussions and there's a whole shitload of lurkers who never post but suck this info in and _learn_, keep it up!!

 

[mexcurandero420]

Chris Duvall in his book Cannabis about Brazil & Mexico btw.

The first documents suggesting the psychoactive species are from mid-eighteenth-century Brazil and Mexico.Cannabis indica arrived in Mexico overland from the south, but the authorities did not connect marijuana with Cannabis until the mid-1800s. Mexican farmers were capable agriculturalists, and in the mid-1700s one successfully bred Cannabis to produce fibre in the central highlands. (This cultivar did not survive the farmer’s death in the 1770s, however.30)
Others kept trying, with modest success. In 1787 Mexican unfinished
hemp exports to Spain reached 2,000 kg (4,400 lb), when a large ship
required 100 tons of rope.31 The colonial government spent heavily to
develop hemp industries, but by the 1790s decided that the project was
an expensive failure.32
Colombia and Peru were other important areas of early Spanish
activity, and sativa failed in these low-latitude countries. Into the 1950s
Colombian authorities lamented the absence of hemp, while bemoan-
ing the presence of marijuana.33

The idea that drug Cannabis was introduced to the Americas –
particularly Brazil – via the slave trade was proposed in 1867,39 and has
become widely accepted despite minimal research. The main evidence
for African introduction is linguistic similarities between Brazilian
Portuguese and Central African languages. Additionally, in the early
1900s a Brazilian naturalist collected folklore that supports linguistic
inference: ‘The seeds [were] brought by unfortunate captives [who] tied
[the seeds] in pouches along the edges of their wraps and loincloths,
[and] who ultimately disseminated [drug Cannabis] to all of South
America and the Antilles.’40
Although this story is not repeated in other collections of Afro-
Brazilian folklore,41 it is plausible. Slaves entered the Middle Passage
mostly unprepared and often unclothed, but many crops crossed the
Atlantic on slave ships.42 There are similar tales of the concealed trans-
port of rice seeds,43 which are approximately the same size as hempseeds.
Indeed, the transport of drug Cannabis seed by a slave was observed
in Gabon during the 1840s or ’50s. The American observer did not
encounter indica near the coast, ‘but once . . . saw a few . . . seeds in the
possession of a slave . . . He was carefully preserving them, intending
to plant them in the country to which he should be sold.’ Unfortunately,
the American recorded few details because ‘Hasheesh and the Cannabis
Indica are so well known that it is not necessary to say anything about them
here.’ Instead, he repeated contemporaneous European drug discourse:
‘Insanity is often its ultimate result’, and ‘the negroes’ seemed unable
to resist the drug plant’s ‘gradual but sure advances’ into new areas.44 The
rare chance that an outsider observed and recorded indica seed-saving
suggests that marijuana was not unusual among Central African slaves.

 

[Verdant Whisperer]

Michoafghani lol

Mango Lights, from Sinaloa wrote :

"Hola, pues he cultivado por un par de décadas aquí en México. Les puedo comentar que aún se consigue "landrace" o Sativa Pura Mexicana comercial. No se porque se dice que ya no existen, claro que si. La mayoría de la mota comercial en el DF sigue siendo la sativa de hace 30 años. Poco ha cambiado en ese aspecto, con la hierba "comercial" para las masas.. En lo que si ha cambiado mucho es con la Mota de calidad, ahora ya está inundado el mercado con Mota Holandesa Indica OG Kush de cultivo Interior. Hace 20 años, se conseguía la famosa Lima-Limón-Zorrilluda, una sativa que sabía a limón y también a Skunk, o la "Michoafghani", una Indica combinada con alguna Sativa que resultaba en algo exquisito. En realidad es difícil hablar de "nombres" hace 25 años no existía ese concepto, pero la Mota "Calidad de Exportación" a mi forma de ver, estaba hibridizada con Indicas en cultivos Outdoor masivos,, y provenía de Michoacán. Ok ahora, con conocimiento de causa les debo orientar con algunos conceptos: Las Sativas puras se dan predominantemente en el sur, es decir donde el fotoperiodo es tropical como Oaxaca, Chiapas o Guerrero, a partir de Michoacán, hacia el norte (Jalisco, Nayarit, Sinaloa y Chihuahua), predominan mas los híbridos con Indicas, ya que el país es dividido por el Trópico de Cáncer, al sur Sativas, al Norte Sativas mezcladas con Indicas. Hablando de lo que les interesa, que son las Sativas Puras, en mi experiencia lo que llega aqui al DF y con 25 años autocultivando, quiero ver el dia que me salga una planta Sativa que sepa a Skunk, si quieren saber algo distintivo de una Mexicana Sativa es que siempre saben a fruta (siempre y cuando estén bien cultivadas). Dentro del aspecto frutoso, hay tendencias a pino, mango, mandarina, naranja y limón, incluso alguna vez tuve una que sabía a miel de abeja, como azúcar. Pero jamás a hashish o a skunk. La mejor Mota que vi en mi vida, fue hace 23 años, mi conecte traía una mota de Michoacán, eran colas gigantes del tamaño de un brazo, anchas, sinsemilla, con cristales y pelos rojos gigantes, sabor a mandarina-skunk, simplemente superior a cualquier cosa que haya fumado o visto en 25 años, Claramente era una Sativa/Indica superior, nosotros le llamamos la "fuego" mas adelante investigué y supe que en ese entonces los cultivadores le llamaban la "Micho-Afghani". Insisitiendo con el mito de que las Sativas puras han desaparecido, que es una falácea, aquí en México se cultiva Mota de dos tipos: la comercial que siguen siendo las Sativas que todos desean en Europa y que creen extintas, y la Mota de Exportación que es Hydro Holandesa, Lo que desaparece son los híbridos gloriosos de los 80´s de las mejores Sativas con las mejores Afghanis y Kush, esos primeros experimentos fueron la máxima expresión de la Cannabis. Así que no se espanten, si desean semillas, de Mexicana pura, aquí hay de sobra, se las envio por correo, (ustedes pagan el envío) de todas formas las tiro a la basura, jajaja. Hace poco me topé con un ejemplar rarísimo, que podría ser la Purple Zacatecas, en mi vida había visto una Sativa tan morada, anexo fotos mas adelante. Tenía un sabor dulce casi a miel. Con Respecto a la Aca Gold, para mi que es un mito, o no me tocó conocerla porque es muy antigua, la hierba que he fumado en Acapulco es de pésima calidad, con los mismos genes caducos de la Sierra de Atoyac de hace 40 años, la Aca Gold debió haber sido en realidad alguna Lima Limón.
Mango


Las Sativas puras de los 70´s del sur, casi no han cambiado y en su defecto ha disminuido su potencia. Los cultivadores son necios e ignorantes, insisten en seguir plantando lo mismo (Guerrero), cuando hay estados que si han evolucionado (Mich, Sin, Chih) sus cultivos con Híbridos en los 80´s y ahora actualmente con Hydro. Solamente en el Sur se encontrarán Sativas puras, en el norte lo veo difícil por la extensa hibridización que se llevó a cabo en los 80's cuando se producía la Marihuana con "Calidad de Exportación" a los Estados Unidos. Los plantíos mas grandes de sinsemilla del mundo existieron o existen aun en la sierra de Sinloa y Chihuahua. Toda la Sativa que llega al DF es del sur y landrace, no pregunten nombres porfavor. Para mi dentro de las Sativas puras la holy-grail de la hierba Mexicana, sin duda es la Lima Limon, Verde Limón, son lo mismo y es de Sinaloa, los gringos le llaman "Sinaloa Green". Una mezcla de sabor mango con zorrillo, exquisito. Y como comentaba, la época gloriosa Ochentera de los híbridos de exportación cuando se mezclaron la Sativa Colombiana, la Lima Limón, con Afghani No1 que produjo la Michoafghani, que fue la mejor marihuana natural de plantío que el mundo haya conocido. Pero ni enterados los pinches Gringos o Los Holandeses como el puto del Arjan que se siente el muy verga el babosoito, "El Rey de la Marihuana" si como no pendejo, date una vuelta para que te de tus clasesitas



Aunque no comprendo la histeria por las landraces si en realidad son hierba de calidad regular, tirándole a baja. La única Landrace detectable a mi criterio sería lo que quedó de la Aca Gold, que hoy en dia es la hierba mas horrible y asquerosa que conozco, viví en Acapulco un tiempo y jamás fume nada bueno, puro tabique aplastado "Golden" que te coloca 10 minutos y el resto del dia como si fuera tabaco. Mi teoría es que mientras mas al norte se va, mejor es la calidad de la hierba, aunque en Oaxaca si me tocaron colas gigantes verdes de sativa. Para mi lo mas feito viene de Guerrero. Lo mejor sin duda Michoacán y Sinaloa. La hierba sativa que inunda al df son colas aplastadas con semilla, sativas de Guerrero y Oax, si las planto, se mejora mucho la calidad. Lo que son las cosas, ustedes desean sativas puras y a mi ya me tienen harto, jajaja, yo busco lo que no hay aquí, que son híbridos o indicas. Dicen lo jipis viejos que existía una PopoBlue del estado de Puebla, es posible que la haya probado alguna vez, sabía a rosas y ponía como si tuviera LSD. y También en el estado de México se cultivó muy buena hierba, en Zacazonapan y Nanchititla, tierra caliente, colas gigantes de indica sativa, eso fué hace 20 años, las épocas de oro. Recuerdo que íbamos a Ixtapan de la Sal y nos daban unos huatos enormes, con unas colas verdes enormes con un olor a pino frutoso de otro planeta. Eso ya no existe, solo siguen las landraces mediocres con genes caducos

Originalmente publicado por Mango Light Ver Mensaje
Aunque no comprendo la histeria por las landraces si en realidad son hierba de calidad regular, tirándole a baja. La única Landrace detectable a mi criterio sería lo que quedó de la Aca Gold, que hoy en dia es la hierba mas horrible y asquerosa que conozco, viví en Acapulco un tiempo y jamás fume nada bueno, puro tabique aplastado "Golden" que te coloca 10 minutos y el resto del dia como si fuera tabaco. Mi teoría es que mientras mas al norte se va, mejor es la calidad de la hierba, aunque en Oaxaca si me tocaron colas gigantes verdes de sativa. Para mi lo mas feito viene de Guerrero. Lo mejor sin duda Michoacán y Sinaloa. La hierba sativa que inunda al df son colas aplastadas con semilla, sativas de Guerrero y Oax, si las planto, se mejora mucho la calidad. Lo que son las cosas, ustedes desean sativas puras y a mi ya me tienen harto, jajaja, yo busco lo que no hay aquí, que son híbridos o indicas. Dicen lo jipis viejos que existía una PopoBlue del estado de Puebla, es posible que la haya probado alguna vez, sabía a rosas y ponía como si tuviera LSD. y También en el estado de México se cultivó muy buena hierba, en Zacazonapan y Nanchititla, tierra caliente, colas gigantes de indica sativa, eso fué hace 20 años, las épocas de oro. Recuerdo que íbamos a Ixtapan de la Sal y nos daban unos huatos enormes, con unas colas verdes enormes con un olor a pino frutoso de otro planeta. Eso ya no existe, solo siguen las landraces mediocres con genes caducos que todo el mundo desea. (yo no)


No todas las landraces Mexicanas son tropicales de hoja delgada, me ha tocado ver de hoja un poco mas ancha y verde mas obscuro, sin ser indica. Una misma especie puede variar con los años con una diferencia de cultivo de 1000-1500m, hay dos líneas de altura o zonas de cultivo: de 500 a 1000 m de altura (primer macizo de la sierra occidental donde crecen las de hoja mas finita y tropical) y el segundo macizo de la sierra o mas al sur lo que es el eje neovolcánico donde se planta a mayor altitud digamos de 1500 hasta los a 3000 metros, donde se adaptó mas la hoja gruesa partiendo de una misma especie original. El origen de la hierba Mexicana al parecer es Sativa de la India y Thai, hablando de hace mas de 60-100 años. La introdujeron los Chinos en Sinaloa. La variedad morada que cultivé no tenia nada de indica, mas que la apariencia, pero el sabor y el high era de sativa. Bonitas las fotos Glennorch y concuerdo con lo del Paraquat, pero eso sucedió en el norte, no en el sur, donde siguen abundando las landraces puras, que se han mezclado igual entre ellas porque la potencia sigue siendo buena, me viene a la mente la hierba de Acapulco que baja de la Sierra de Atoyac, o todas las imón.

Pregunta Raco, usted vista un tipo vea similiar de eso, es mas citrico y picante, y mas cerebro el effecto. casi seguro es de mexico. primero yo pienso es de sinaloa, no se,el effecto no es pesado pero despues algunas puros estoy relajado en el sofa.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Mel Frank did send some genetics like Cambodia and Colombia to Phylos. Both were related.

Cambodia currently has no clones in the Galaxy. It has 18 relatives in the Galaxy.

The list of genetic relatives is ordered in descending relatedness. If a number appears to the right of the variety name, that denotes the number of clones of that variety that are currently in the Phylos Galaxy.

Phylos data is completely and totally unreliable. When a user/submitter can specify the "name brand" of cannabis they are submitting and it's taken at face value to be 100% correct, who are you going to believe????

I could submit a sample of my 25 plus year IBL NL, say it's THH and who's to say it's not???? The Phylos DNA data is comparing other unknown, _unverified_ genotypes submitted as Hz with what I'm submitting. Just because it doesn't match up with what other people have submitted as Hz doesn't mean it's not Hayes because who really knows that what they submitted was true Hz.

The first time I saw the wide and diverse, yet _totally_ unrelated lineages of supposed NL's submitted on Phylos, I knew it was going to be complete bullshit.