What really makes smoke harsh?

[Crazy Composer]

I know what good compost is... hehehe But if the argument is put forward that it's not possible to overfeed with organics, then that argument must be called --respectfully-- as incorrect. There's better sources for organic material than manures, yes, but the statement that organics cannot overfeed, is simply not right. It's not a big deal, but we should be careful not to misinform people about this. If you are new to this and read that you have nothing to worry about when growing organically, then you get a harsh crop... this isn't helpful to understanding how this works.

We should teach that you CAN overfeed with organics, and how to avoid doing so.

 

[JackTheGrower]

It's a misconception issue CC.

Mostly a conversation that happens over and over again like "My PPM is way high on run off and I applied lime now my plants are looking bad." Kind of thing.

The answer is what are you using a PPM meter for? Then it's a process of explaining things they can read for themselves right here.

I don't mind so much mostly. I just know when being curt is the best thing to be.

It's all here on Icmag.. I like that and the people. This is the "Organic Soil" forum.

I'll share what I can but don't expect me to share all I know.. I have my ego you know.

 

[jaykush]

i was talking about quality compost, not overfeeding your plants. im saying good compost shouldn't burn your plants period. if it does to anyone, there's something wrong with the compost they used.

 

[Crazy Composer]

Well Jack, this has been a very good discussion if you ask me. And I know it's the organic soil forum, I am a Mod of this forum. What was discussed here was about organic growing methods. Some disagree that you can call coco coir with worm castings "organic soil", but I think it is. Living organisms breaking down organic matter and feeding it to roots... that's organic. There are different ways to achieve living organisms breaking down organic matter and feeding it to plants, but in the end we're talking about the same thing... Living organisms in soil working in concert to break down organic matter and deliver it to plants in ionic form. We should call this forum the "recycled organic soil" forum if all we discuss are organic soils that are reused over and over.

 

[Crazy Composer]

i was talking about quality compost, not overfeeding your plants. im saying good compost shouldn't burn your plants period. if it does to anyone, there's something wrong with the compost they used.

Can organics overfeed plants?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Well Jack, this has been a very good discussion if you ask me. And I know it's the organic soil forum, I am a Mod of this forum. What was discussed here was about organic growing methods. Some disagree that you can call coco coir with worm castings "organic soil", but I think it is. Living organisms breaking down organic matter and feeding it to roots... that's organic. There are different ways to achieve living organisms breaking down organic matter and feeding it to plants, but in the end we're talking about the same thing... Living organisms in soil working in concert to break down organic matter and deliver it to plants in ionic form. We should call this forum the "recycled organic soil" forum if all we discuss are organic soils that are reused over and over.

Hey who hasn't been a Mod eh?

Like I said maybe with over 1700 people on line at a time we might rethink the categories.
If folks want to commune with organic based medium and organic feeding products great. We might add sub forums and make Organic Soil one. Maybe have an Organic growing main and everything else is a sub?

To each their own. You see me.. It's a whole lot of dirt.. That won't change I hope.. Never know if I will have what I have in the future.. Right now lucky me.. I have a mature soil in a system I designed. Ergo.. My ego..
Like "let go my eggo."

Organic soil is about natural balance. Think of some eastern stuff.. Meditation and all.. Nature in harmony..

Production issues are secondary in this vision of Harmony in the Garden for me.. But Produce isn't a problem.. I just wish I had more room now that I have the rest dialled in.

So you want someone to say you can over feed?
I'll say it you can over feed. Is that true Organic soil methods? No.

---------------

Edit :

About the Reuse or used.. That's just BS Does the Park in the City remove and replace the soil each year so it stays green? Look it's this idea that we have to buy something all the time.. We are little cows and sheep on the farm of Capitalism.. Organic Soil is older than that BS.

Do you see why it's annoying to make new friends in the OS forum.. We have to work with people to get them to think differently. There is no such thing as a used soil.. Not really. There might be a polluted from liquid crap soil but an Organic soil is unlikely to be bad in itself year after year.. Polluted with some nasty mix maybe but not something to toss out IMO.

People are talking about qualities.. The Days of just making it stronger are still with us but there is room for more.
I am exploring the consistent qualities i get with this soil I have.. Different strains similar results on smokability.

 

[Crazy Composer]

Right, you'll get no argument from me that organics, done right, will not overfeed. But the statement that it's not possible to overfeed with organic methods is misleading, and I'm happy to see this misconception going the way of the dodo.

 

[jaykush]

Can organics overfeed plants?

from post # 92

i don't think you can burn plants with quality composted materials, but you CAN burn the shit out of them with things like alfalfa meal, bat guanos, fish emulsions, etc....that are not composted or if used in too great of amounts. which will end up with one thing, crappy smoke.

 

[Crazy Composer]

Right, you already said that. I'm on board with all the rest of what's been said. Now we need to figure out where to put posts having to do with organic mediums that are not organic soils by the purist's standards. It might be that the purists will just have to be tolerant of methods not like their own in the future, because I looked over the forums, and most of these methods do belong right here in this forum IMO.

 

[jaykush]

Some disagree that you can call coco coir with worm castings "organic soil", but I think it is. Living organisms breaking down organic matter and feeding it to roots... that's organic.

but its not soil, at least on the technical aspect its just an organic medium, just like peat. soil is mineral, organic, living and decomposing matter all in one. coco lacks the mineral part, which over 90% of soils on this earth have more mineral matter than anything else. we think of them as just rocks and sand for the most part, but it even goes down to silt and clay.

 

[VerdantGreen]

thanks mm, i would agree with what jay said too.

i'm another who re-uses his cannabis soil mix in the garden as a mulch and a potting compost and it is way better than anything i could buy.

V.

 

[JackTheGrower]

People do get confused.. Some try to hang in but they go.. Maybe they get the idea and have all they need?

Maybe they decide it's too much work.. Idono but it's here for those that love it. I am one.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Right, you already said that. I'm on board with all the rest of what's been said. Now we need to figure out where to put posts having to do with organic mediums that are not organic soils by the purist's standards. It might be that the purists will just have to be tolerant of methods not like their own in the future, because I looked over the forums, and most of these methods do belong right here in this forum IMO.

Are you saying you are homeless?

 

[Crazy Composer]

So, by that definition almost no one at all is growing with truly organic soil indoors... just organic mediums. I can agree with that... but I think you'll find that even most of the soil purists will be lacking stones and sand in their indoor soils. We could go a step further and disqualify ANY plants grown under artificial light as being non-organic plants as well. By the time we get down to it, there will be one person in the world who can post in this forum and really deserve it! hehehehe He'd have to grow with a series of mirrors that reflect natural sunlight into his garden. You'll also need to remove Organics for Beginners" from the Stickies in this forum, and most of the threads that are already here, since most aren't using rocks and minerals, besides lime and the occasional green sand. We could just reserve this forum for outdoor growers only, since that's the only true organic place to grow. But this is not what this forum is for... It's for what you do, what I do, what MicrobeMan does, what Jack does... start with a soiless medium, and build an organic medium out of it. I've not heard anyone saying they took soil from outside and work with that only... That would be rocks, silt, sand, clay, etc.

Yes Jack, homeless. That's correct.

 

[JackTheGrower]

So, by that definition almost no one at all is growing with truly organic soil indoors... just organic mediums. I can agree with that... but I think you'll find that even most of the soil purists will be lacking stones and sand in their indoor soils. We could go a step further and disqualify ANY plants grown under artificial light as being non-organic plants as well. By the time we get down to it, there will be one person in the world who can post in this forum and really deserve it! hehehehe He'd have to grow with a series of mirrors that reflect natural sunlight into his garden. You'll also need to remove Organics for Beginners" from the Stickies in this forum, and most of the threads that are already here, since most aren't using rocks and minerals, besides lime and the occasional green sand. We could just reserve this forum for outdoor growers only, since that's the only true organic place to grow. But this is not what this forum is for... It's for what you do, what I do, what MicrobeMan does, what Jack does... start with a soiless medium, and build an organic medium out of it. I've not heard anyone saying they took soil from outside and work with that only... That would be rocks, silt, sand, clay, etc.

Yes Jack, homeless. That's correct.

You are a Stranger.. Maybe you have magic powers.. Maybe you can just whisper and all that i value in this tiny but important forum will serve your mindset of right and wrong but,

Where are your organic soil threads? I don't remember reading much about you in here. Mr Moderator.. Where have you been?

 

[Crazy Composer]

Where are your gorgeous, organic buds? Don't turn into an ass, dude. There's no contest when it comes to who actually knows what they're talking about. Check HEADS Magazine, almost two straight years of my articles in there, sometimes three articles per issue. I had a regular column in that mag, and when I couldn't do a month, Ed Rosenthal filled in for me. I have written for High Times many times, and have an open invite to do so at any time. I have an srticle being published in HT right now, even as you ask me where I have been. You shouldn't pick a fight with someone you know nothing about, it can lead to embarrassment.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Where are your gorgeous, organic buds? Don't turn into an ass, dude. There's no contest when it comes to who actually knows what they're talking about. Check HEADS Magazine, almost two straight years of my articles in there, sometimes three articles per issue. I had a regular column in that mag, and when I couldn't do a month, Ed Rosenthal filled in for me. I have written for High Times many times, and have an open invite to do so at any time. You shouldn't pick a fight with someone you know nothing about, it can lead to embarrassment.

Alright.. You have no respect and I do not value your Moderation skills.

I have plenty of pictures and like I said stop with the Dick measuring.

Leave the peaceful contributors alone will ya?

Ask for a new forum.. rearrange the structures but why do you need to start and win a war of "I'm so cool you guys need to change your forum just for me."
I'm sympathetic to any discomfort you are going through but you have not put the time in to be my friend.. Jay and I don't talk too much but I feel friendly towards him.. I certainly don't say Hey Jay just because you didn't winter your BSF you are so uncool and I want to take over and run a Winter your BSF forum in my image..
But then you may not be following this Forum.. I assume that is true.

So if you are asking if A new structure is alright I'd say yes..
Maybe an Organics main and Sub forums. One of which is Organic soil.
Add to that Growing in Medium with Organic liquids.. It's all good.
Yes there are areas that overlap we are all growing the same plant for the most part.


So why fuck with me?

 

[Crazy Composer]

Jack, you're spinning the facts like Fox News when the Dems are ahead in the polls. You were uncouth toward me, and I called you on it, and you don't like that. Well, don't be so brash and unfriendly and it won't come back to you. Simple. I urge anyone who trusts Jack that I was hash, to go back and read the truth.

And at that, I will leave here and go back to watching the forums, as I always do... Which, by the way, prompted me to come in here and make sure people were getting the whole story, that overfeeding IS possible with organics. Sorry if clarifying this fact pisses off guys who have been preaching that you can't overfeed with organics. The story is straight now, so I don't need to go on.

 

[jaykush]

So, by that definition almost no one at all is growing with truly organic soil indoors... just organic mediums. I can agree with that... but I think you'll find that even most of the soil purists will be lacking stones and sand in their indoor soils. We could go a step further and disqualify ANY plants grown under artificial light as being non-organic plants as well. By the time we get down to it, there will be one person in the world who can post in this forum and really deserve it! hehehehe He'd have to grow with a series of mirrors that reflect natural sunlight into his garden. You'll also need to remove Organics for Beginners" from the Stickies in this forum, and most of the threads that are already here, since most aren't using rocks and minerals, besides lime and the occasional green sand. We could just reserve this forum for outdoor growers only, since that's the only true organic place to grow. But this is not what this forum is for... It's for what you do, what I do, what MicrobeMan does, what Jack does... start with a soiless medium, and build an organic medium out of it. I've not heard anyone saying they took soil from outside and work with that only... That would be rocks, silt, sand, clay, etc.

yea i would consider LC's mixes an organic medium as well just like the coco medium. definitely not a true soil. and it does make me a little sad inside. but i do know quite a few who have taken my advice and started using raw mineral matter in there soil or just taking the step and getting soil from outside and turning it into something special. and in the end they loved it compared to the methods they used before.

ps - where do i buy these crazy mirror systems, i gotta have me one of them suckers.

I certainly don't say Hey Jay just because you didn't winter your BSF you are so uncool and I want to take over and run a Winter your BSF forum in my image..

i so wish i could! my chickens would love a BSF treat right now. but damn its too cold!!!

 

[StreamMagic]

Yep overfeeded plants will be harsher smoke..Not dried properly will make it harsher smoke..