What has happened with the human race?

[Mad.Dapper]

We dont need a government, thats just it. We are an ancient race of very intelligent beings. Our thoughts and mind has been tainted for hundreds of years by this so called government and media, and whatever they tend to force down our throats. We need to start thinking for ourselves, and open our eyes and ears to whats around us.

We have a mass of people who believe what they are told to believe.

What the world needs is a move in the direction of compassionate rationalism. We need government to work for people instead of business.

Happy, healthy, productive citizens should be the goal of any society.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Your right Oswiizzle, Americas Long lazy afternoon in the sun is coming to a close.

China owns all your debt, and he who owns the debt books owns the world.

Not that simple. We owe what, 17 trillion and owe China less than a trillion. Besides, their wages and living standards don't provide for everything they choose to produce. China needs our buying power or they wouldn't sell as many products.

I'm not saying the US has a leg up because balance is the spirit of global trade, even if it's not necessarily the reality.

 

[WasntMe]

Fact: There is more corporate and private dept in the world then there is physical money available.

If we globally tried to pay off all dept at this point we would run out of money before it could be done. The Earth is effectively bankrupt .... sounds ridiculous right?

As inflation rises and so will unemployment ... you will see more global violence due to fighting over resources that are needed to sustain life. i.e. clean fresh water. You will see more examples of people dividing from each other and having us vs them mentalities.

I truly hope you all are ready for what is coming down the road.... it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

We dont need a government, thats just it. We are an ancient race of very intelligent beings. Our thoughts and mind has been tainted for hundreds of years by this so called government and media, and whatever they tend to force down our throats. We need to start thinking for ourselves, and open our eyes and ears to whats around us.

This goes back to the pervasive, not systemic idea. Saying all government is bad is not unlike saying all people or all commerce is bad. Obviously we've got bad players that stack chips in their cronies' corners. But no government would send us back to the stone age. People wouldn't mandate your taxes, they'd rob and pillage your family and ponderosa. Anybody remember the wild west? We got tired of all that shit and became a nation of laws.

IMO, public education has veered away from reminding us about the 1920s. And now we want to go back to the past. been doing it for the last three decades.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat.

 

[Piel]

I haven´t read the whole thread but here are my 2C: The escaliting violence in the world is global. I live in what has traditionally been seen as a very secure piece of Scandinavia but we´ve had two school massacres, a mall bombing that killed several and a mallshooting all inside say ten years with the school- and mallshooting inside three years. Gun related violence is on the rise, organized crime with drugs, trafficking etc.

But my point is that -more or less- we´ve always been a violent race, few societies know what "peace" and "morals" etc rerally mean.

Look at the Crusades, slavery, butchering of Christians in the Colosseum, the English concentration camps during the Boer war and how thet treated aborigines in Australia or the Catholic Churh and pedophilia etc etc. This is in no chronologic order but there is even some evidence that the Cro Magnon (modern man more or less) eradicated the Neanderthals who were supposedly a peaceful and intelligent species.

We have learned nothing from history, we keep making the same mistakes and I don´t really se anything changing.

Just look at the worl for a sec.

I don´t mean to cynical or judgemental but I think the "facts" pretty much speak for themselves once you think about it.

Peace.

 

[dddaver]

OPINIONS and assholes. We all got one. They ALL stink. OP asked this to be closed if it got hate filled. Has it? I became a recluse largely due to the stuff this thread is talking about. Puff, puff, pass. Now I'm, "Just sittin' here watching the wheels go round and round. Oh how I love to watch them roll... Just had to let it go." Something like that. "Merry-go-round in circles." is a good one too.

 

[headband 707]

OPINIONS and assholes. We all got one. They ALL stink. OP asked this to be closed if it got hate filled. Has it? I became a recluse largely due to the stuff this thread is talking about. Puff, puff, pass. Now I'm, "Just sittin' here watching the wheels go round and round. Oh how I love to watch them roll... Just had to let it go." Something like that. "Merry-go-round in circles." is a good one too.

HUH??? LOL I bet your a barrel of laughs at a party lol peace out Headband707

 

[Hydrosun]

well this is also a consequence of capitalsm , both parents have to go work to pay the bills and have a bit of luxury

so they almost dont HAVE any time left , in the past at least the mom was at home

Why two capitalism bashing post on the first page? I don't remember the people of the USSR eating well or enjoying leisure time.

American's are the fattest people on the globe, not because they work so hard keeping a roof over the kids head; but rather because American's hardly work AT ALL.

An economic system of free and fair trade hurts NO ONE and allows all to benefit. All other economic systems loot from producers in order to support moochers (the political base of the looters).

The human race is still so fucked up because 6 billion people are eating but not many are producing. Those non-producers would rather debate and discuss reallocation of scarce resources instead of pick up a hammer.

As long as people feel entitled to something for nothing man will be conditioned to fear and mistrust his neighbor. Self reliance is the first and most important step towards compassion.

And NO economic system ever devised offers a greater potential for self reliance than capitalism.

Unfortunately NO country on the globe has a free and capitalistic economic structure.

 

[1quixotix]

Capitalism justifies the means by arguing the ends.
Unrestrained capitalism brings about corporatist systems.
If you believe that corporations are not fucking everything up (they are not operating as/in a true free market) while ensuring their survival then capitalism is the sand you should stick your head in.
With that said, there is NO working system that will overcome the power and greed of the human condition.
MY best guess would be a low population agricultural based system with sustainability as the foundation.
We have to just let this play out and let mother nature have her way (population control).
IF we were able to be governed by a system that was beyond greed and power that system would look a lot like AI.

 

[Hydrosun]

My guess is you are not an economics grad. let alone a professor. I'd also bet you've never run a business. And I'd lay 1000 to 1 that you have NOT read "Capitalism the Unknown Ideal."

Free and fair trade doesn't involve government interference or preference making, the system you are speaking of is corporate fascism.

The black market for cannabis in the USA is a prefect example of capitalism. There are thousands of capitalistic participants in the black market of cannabis. As a result the quality and availability of cannabis has increased exponentially and the price has decreased tremendously.

How many gallons of gas did it take to purchase an OZ of top shelf cannabis in 1999? Answer about $400 or 400 (FOUR HUNDRED @ $1.00) gallons of gas / diesel.

How many gallons of gas does it take to purchase an OZ of top shelf in 2011? Answer about 91 (NINETY-ONE @ $3.30) gallons of gas / diesel.

If capitalism were bad and people generally evil why is cannabis so much better and less expensive than a decade ago? Can anyone else point to ANY commodity that costs less than 25% of what it was selling for a decade ago?

Also why is it so popular to decry capitalism, while simultaneously offering NOTHING as a better economic model? My suspicion is public schools and the moochers foster this fear / hatred of capitalism.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My guess is you are not an economics grad. let alone a professor. I'd also bet you've never run a business. And I'd lay 1000 to 1 that you have NOT read "Capitalism the Unknown Ideal."

didn't read "Atlas Shrugged" either...

Free and fair trade doesn't involve government interference or preference making, the system you are speaking of is corporate fascism.

My guess is you're not a history grad, let alone a professor. Government regulation isn't fascism. Europe didn't see fascism until the 1930s. By that time, your American free and fair trade had tanked the US economy into depression.

The black market for cannabis in the USA is a prefect example of capitalism. There are thousands of capitalistic participants in the black market of cannabis. As a result the quality and availability of cannabis has increased exponentially and the price has decreased tremendously.

Yep, it was kinda like gold, the price decreases after it goes through the ceiling. Kind of like a bubble, wouldn't you say?

How many gallons of gas did it take to purchase an OZ of top shelf cannabis in 1999? Answer about $400 or 400 (FOUR HUNDRED @ $1.00) gallons of gas / diesel.

How many gallons of gas does it take to purchase an OZ of top shelf in 2011? Answer about 91 (NINETY-ONE @ $3.30) gallons of gas / diesel.

A nice apples to oranges comparison.

If capitalism were bad and people generally evil why is cannabis so much better and less expensive than a decade ago? Can anyone else point to ANY commodity that costs less than 25% of what it was selling for a decade ago?

supply and demand

Also why is it so popular to decry capitalism, while simultaneously offering NOTHING as a better economic model? My suspicion is public schools and the moochers foster this fear / hatred of capitalism.

Yeah, we really want communism, lol.

 

[itisme]

We have a mass of people who believe what they are told to believe.

What the world needs is a move in the direction of compassionate rationalism. We need government to work for people instead of business.

Happy, healthy, productive citizens should be the goal of any society.

AMEN! People use politics, religion, class, race amongst other things everyday to punish, distance and repress others. It has to stop!

I was going to bid on storage units yesterday, there was supposed to be 5 units for sale. Four of the people paid there bills and got to keep there stuff. In the crowd, two types of people emerged once this information was out. Some said good for them, they got to keep their stuff. Some of the others were only concerned with the fact that they could only bid on one auction. The Right Atitude needs to be taken. Cops that includes your bullying, get the camera out of my face asses.

 

[Hydrosun]

Government preferences ARE fascism. Picking winners and looser is fascism.

You are no history professor and the great depression was not caused by free and fair trade. Time for you to re-watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off and listen to Mr. Ben Stein.

So what was your proposed system of economics and governance again?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Regulated capitalism.

Your idea is a dream that never materialized. Even Greenspan admitted that a market governing itself is a myth. Man will sell his soul for a profit. So a system of regulation has to be in place to protect the sheep from the wolves.

Forget about Ferris Bueller, Ben Stein and revisionist history. Consider Upton Sinclair, the Ralph Nader of the early 1900s. Regulation was at it's lowest, income disparity was at it's zenith (not far from it now.) We had unsafe products, an unsanitary food supply and drugs were shelved and sold along side of snake oil.

 

[Hydrosun]

A nice apples to oranges comparison.

supply and demand

Doesn't "supply and demand" exist for apples and oranges as well as cannabis?

If so why haven't all agriculture products decreased in price 75% like cannabis?

If my observation of changing cannabis price per unit of fuel is invalid, what unit would you have me measure change? Surely paper money printed as quickly as possible isn't a measure of worth.

As for the gold you mentioned it seems to keep pace with fuel costs. 1999 gold was about 1/3 of what it is now, same as fuel. However gold is a terrible commodity to use in comparisons because the various governments of the globe have outlawed and manipulated the pricing of the metal for decades.

 

[thinkin]

cyclical

cyclical

Human race is amazing.
We adapt.
We improve.
We cooperate.
We destroy.

Think human race takes common pratices for granted.
Only when we loss something, do we appreciate what we lost.

To me seems people are generally upset with corruption, lack of respect for our laws, generally look out for you own and forget everyone else.

Result will be a destablizing society. Then (some point), human race will swing back and fall in love with laws and structure again.


firm believer in "One Love"

Peace and be nice

 

[TruthOrLie]

you could blame whomever or whatever you want but the truth is we're murderous species.

 

[Hydrosun]

Regulated capitalism.

Your idea is a dream that never materialized. Even Greenspan admitted that a market governing itself is a myth. Man will sell his soul for a profit. So a system of regulation has to be in place to protect the sheep from the wolves.

Forget about Ferris Bueller, Ben Stein and revisionist history. Consider Upton Sinclair, the Ralph Nader of the early 1900s. Regulation was at it's lowest, income disparity was at it's zenith (not far from it now.) We had unsafe products, an unsanitary food supply and drugs were shelved and sold along side of snake oil.

1787 - The Lochner era was that dream you speak of.

Greenspan is a traitor to all he once held true. I bet you didn't know that Mr. Allen Greenspan wrote chapter 5 in "Capitalism the Unknown Ideal." The subject of his chapter was Gold as the only true form of money.

I've read Mr. Sinclair's work and enjoyed The Jungle throughly. I for one welcome a day where we are free from the government and not the government keeping us free from unsafe products.

I don't know how safe your government regulated food supply is or your drugs for that matter. Seems my memory contains several DEADLY recalls each year, not to mention the deaths caused by FDA approved meds.

If government regulation was really needed to "keep the sheeple safe," how is it the black market cannabis industry hasn't killed thousands?

How can it be that cannabis survived unregulated and the wolves didn't kill everyone? Without regulation shouldn't all the market participants adulterate their product? Could it be that the market itself is keeping cannabis more pure than a government could ever do?

As it is now the druggists of this country can only sell approved snake oil next to the snake oil, because as the government has told us cannabis has no medicinal value; but here have a Xanax.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Doesn't "supply and demand" exist for apples and oranges as well as cannabis?

Sure does. But weed is black market and gas isn't. You'd have to establish more economic indicators than a decade of gas to weed price comparisons.

If so why haven't all agriculture products decreased in price 75% like cannabis?

For one, our commodities modernization act made (legal) commodities another casino to gamble trades that are never delivered. For example, oil tankers sit idle in the gulf, waiting for the price to increase before non-delivery trades are sold for profit (for the few.) Then it's delivered at a higher price (to everybody.) Remember the lone WS trader that helped push oil to $147 per bbl a couple of years ago? IMO, the guy cares less about the worst recession we've ever experienced than the commissions he pocketed pushing crude prices.

Now more of our food staples are priced through the roof because we no longer have commodities regulations in place that consider the macro economic health of our country and the world's need for economic stability. Instead, a few people are getting rich and soaring world food prices are a major element of the unrest in the Middle East.

If my observation of changing cannabis price per unit of fuel is invalid, what unit would you have me measure change?

IMO, you're argument is a little narrow. Comparison of an energy commodity to a black market drug?

I get the impression you're suggesting that oil prices rose (because of government regulation) and weed prices dove (because of no regulation.) Would it interest you to know that big oil enjoyed their highest profits in the last decade? Guess what helped drive prices through the roof? Canning regulations. What about Peak oil? That's a big supply and demand destabilizer. Civil instability... investment market forces... I could go on.

The black market endures none of these restraints. Narco traffickers even foment unrest (Mexico ans Afghanistan) to maintain profits. Weed growers in Cali aren't the black market (depending on the day) but they don't have corporate execs raking in salaries to the tune of 400x the average wage, (the biggest income disparity since the 1929.)

Surely paper money printed as quickly as possible isn't a measure of worth.

Surely not.

As for the gold you mentioned it seems to keep pace with fuel costs. 1999 gold was about 1/3 of what it is now, same as fuel. However gold is a terrible commodity to use in comparisons because the various governments of the globe have outlawed and manipulated the pricing of the metal for decades.

I mentioned gold, YOU mentioned cost pace with fuel.

I didn't compare gold to oil. I compared gold to weed. Drug gangs manipulated the price of weed before (and after) decrim and so-called legalization for med patients.

Are you tired of getting less than $3k per pound of prime in Cali? If it's Kush, bring it to Atlanta and sell it for $4500. If the supply of Kush in Atlanta isn't a factor, you might get $5k.

IMO, black market weed vs a legal energy commodity is a terrible comparison. Especially when regulation seems to be your crux of your argument.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

1787 - The Lochner era was that dream you speak of.

Nah, I think Greenspan referenced Ayn Rand's dream in Atlas Shrugged. Initially, Greenspan subscribed to the idea that people are good and they naturally want to provide an equitable product or service at a fair, market price. Then Greenspan was forced to reflect on the myth and even acknowledged publicly that players rigged the system for short-term gain. Exactly the opposite of what Rand predicted in her fiction novel.

Greenspan is a traitor to all he once held true. I bet you didn't know that Mr. Allen Greenspan wrote chapter 5 in "Capitalism the Unknown Ideal." The subject of his chapter was Gold as the only true form of money.

He may be a traitor to those who ignore history. But he's a realist to those who recognize that he acknowledges the "markets governing themselves" myth.

I've read Mr. Sinclair's work and enjoyed The Jungle throughly. I for one welcome a day where we are free from the government and not the government keeping us free from unsafe products.

Yep. That way, you'll know your tuna has mercury in it. The only thing you'll have to do is figure out how to feed yourself w/o poisoning yourself. Gas fracking will render our drinking wells flammable and we'll all be one big happy family.

I don't know how safe your government regulated food supply is or your drugs for that matter.

Check out the FDA website. You'll discover things you don't know.

Seems my memory contains several DEADLY recalls each year, not to mention the deaths caused by FDA approved meds.

Yep. More reason to regulate.

If government regulation was really needed to "keep the sheeple safe," how is it the black market cannabis industry hasn't killed thousands?

You only have to look to Mexico to see peeps killed by the thousands. Did you know more have died in the ongoing Mexican drug war than a decade plus of conventional war in Afghanistan?

I think you're assumption lies more in the social science of domestic growers compared to traffickers. Economics, not so much.

How can it be that cannabis survived unregulated and the wolves didn't kill everyone?

It's illegal... schedule 1. That's the biggest regulation we got. And why does everybody have to die to make your point?

Without regulation shouldn't all the market participants adulterate their product? Could it be that the market itself is keeping cannabis more pure than a government could ever do?

No, lol. Regulation doesn't drive profits but it oversees the cowboys that would rip you off, damage your health, etc. etc.

As it is now the druggists of this country can only sell approved snake oil next to the snake oil, because as the government has told us cannabis has no medicinal value; but here have a Xanax.

You seem to be meandering from the op, making this a defense of capitalism thread. It's more about violence. Maybe you could opine how regulation is killing people.