Wearing Masks

[xavier7995]

find me a single epidemiologist, virologist, immunologist etc that calls masks "useless". please.

I'm sure you can find one. I mean, they had a few doctors and scientists saying cigarettes were good for you and had calcium or whatever. Of course, the vast vast majority knew that was bullshit and its why we mock folks for failing to adhere to the scientific method and peer review.

 

[EsterEssence]

4 new cases in New Zealand and they are closing down again, no left no right. Just the right thing to do to control spread...

 

[ElGato]

Abstract

Masks and respirators do not work. There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles.

Furthermore, the relevant known physics and biology, which I review, are such that masks and respirators should not work. It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 ?m), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective-dose is smaller than one aerosol particle.

The present paper about masks illustrates the degree to which governments, the mainstream media, and institutional propagandists can decide to operate in a science vacuum, or select only incomplete science that serves their interests. Such recklessness is also certainly the case with the current global lockdown of over 1 billion people, an unprecedented experiment in medical and political history.



Review of the Medical Literature

Here are key anchor points to the extensive scientific literature that establishes that wearing surgical masks and respirators (e.g., "N95") does not reduce the risk of contracting a verified illness:


Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) "Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial", American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 - 419.
N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.


Cowling, B. et al. (2010) "Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review", Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. doi:10.1017/S0950268809991658
None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.


bin-Reza et al. (2012) "The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence", Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257-267.
"There were 17 eligible studies. [...] None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask ? respirator use and protection against in?uenza infection."


Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis", CMAJ Mar 2016, cmaj.150835; DOI: 10.1503/cmaj.150835
"We identified 6 clinical studies ... In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism."


Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) "Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis", Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934-1942, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/cix681
"Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant"

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) "N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial", JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824-833. doi:10.1001/jama.2019.11645
"Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza."


Long, Y. et al. (2020) "Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis", J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://doi.org/10.1111/jebm.12381
"A total of six RCTs involving 9 171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza."



Unknown aspects of mask-wearing

Many potential harms may arise from broad public policies to wear masks, and the following unanswered questions arise:

Do used and loaded masks become sources of enhanced transmission, for the wearer and others?

Do masks become collectors and retainers of pathogens that the mask wearer would otherwise avoid when breathing without a mask?

Are large droplets captured by a mask atomized or aerolized into breathable components?

Can virions escape an evaporating droplet stuck to a mask fiber?

What are the dangers of bacterial growth on a used and loaded
mask?

How do pathogen-laden droplets interact with environmental dust and aerosols captured on the mask?

What are long-term health effects on HCW,
such as headaches, arising from impeded breathing?

Are there negative social consequences to a masked society?

Are there negative psychological consequences to wearing a mask, as a fear-based behavioural modification?

What are the environmental consequences of mask manufacturing and disposal?

Do the masks shed fibres or substances that are harmful when inhaled?

https://www.sott.net/article/434796...rators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses

 

[xavier7995]

Abstract

Snip
https://www.sott.net/article/434796...rators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses

In all fairness that guy was a tenured physics professor but apparently got fired (real hard to do) and now self publishes his research. I do appreciate the effort though, its just that his work doesn't necessarily hold up under peer review. Sott and research gate are not terribly reputable places to publish your findings.

 

[ElGato]

In all fairness that guy was a tenured physics professor but apparently got fired (real hard to do) and self publishes his research. I do appreciate the effort though, its just that his work doesn't necessarily hold up under peer review. Sott and research gate are not terribly reputable places to publish your findings.

it does not mean that he is wrong though

 

[xavier7995]

True, and I think that it should be considered. Lots of revolutionary thinkers whos ideas are now fact would have had a hard time meeting the threshold. Something I read recently made that point about Galileo.

 

[cyat]

Excellent info elgato!

 

[Cannavore]

Masks are a leftist ploy wake up sheeple

 

[BigPhil]

If no1 is changing their mask every time they are pointless... You put mask on go shopping. Finish shopping mask goes in pocket or wherever. You go shopping again. Put dirty mask on. Get germs all over hands. Touch 100 items shopping spreading them germs about.

You have no spread more germs than you would of without a mask on.

 

[Amynamous]

@ElGato- the studies you cut and pasted have no relevance to the current pandemic.
One could try to present those “studies” to hospitals in an attempt to convince them that their doctors and nurses don’t need to wear masks, but you won’t get very far.
Because it warrants repeating, we are wearing masks to protect those around us from us and not the other way around.

 

[Hammerhead]

I'm sure you can find one. I mean, they had a few doctors and scientists saying cigarettes were good for you and had calcium or whatever. Of course, the vast vast majority knew that was bullshit and its why we mock folks for failing to adhere to the scientific method and peer review.

LOL, There are dr's that have issues with alien sperm

If no1 is changing their mask every time they are pointless... You put mask on go shopping. Finish shopping mask goes in pocket or wherever. You go shopping again. Put dirty mask on. Get germs all over hands. Touch 100 items shopping spreading them germs about.

You have no spread more germs than you would of without a mask on.

If you wearing a mask put some freaking gloves on as well. If you use disposables masks toss them. If people dont know not to touch there face it defeats the purpose of a mask. For the 100x masks are to protect others.

 

[ElGato]

@ElGato- the studies you cut and pasted have no relevance to the current pandemic.
One could try to present those “studies” to hospitals in an attempt to convince them that their doctors and nurses don’t need to wear masks, but you won’t get very far.
Because it warrants repeating, we are wearing masks to protect those around us from us and not the other way around.

i understand what you're saying , but I do think there is relevance. Also, I wasn't presenting this article as hard fact, I was presenting it as an interesting read >> especially the part titled "unknown aspects of Mask wearing"


thanks for chiming in though

 

[BigPhil]

I thought the main reason Docotors and Nurses use surgical masks is to stop blood splatters going in their mouths and nose. Hense the name surgical mask

 

[mr.brunch]

No it’s to stop them breathing mouth bacteria etc into an open wound.

 

[BigPhil]

If you wearing a mask put some freaking gloves on as well. If you use disposables masks toss them. If people dont know not to touch there face it defeats the purpose of a mask. For the 100x masks are to protect others.[/QUOTE]

But if people are touching their masks even with gloves on. They are still spreading germs on the gloves while shopping. They will touch product's and put them back on the shelf. WHO and other health professionals have all said they offer little to no protection and can do more damage than good.

Let's face it I bet 99% of people use the same mask and don't wash it after every use. Every time they touch it. To put it on or adjust it on their face. They have germs off that mask on their hands and are handling 100s of items in the supermarket. People will do this without thinking that they are spreading germs.

 

[BigPhil]

No it’s to stop them breathing mouth bacteria etc into an open wound.

What about the safety Goggles then? That's not to stop tears dripping on the patients. It's to stop blood splatters. Just like the masks people they operate on could have HIV or hepatitis or anything like that

 

[SamsonsRiddle]

a few pages back there was some confusion on how they are counting the virus deaths. the media and government are reporting it as dying "of" the virus, but it seems as though they are counting anyone who dies "with" the virus.


how come the numbers keep going up even though everyone's wearing masks now?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoiQ9bpJsGA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9Ci2PZKZg

 

[Amynamous]

As a former operating room nurse, we wore masks so we don’t spread our germs to the patient AND so that we don’t get splatter into our nose and mouths.

Also, we called N-95s TB masks, and the N95 fit testing is commonly called TB Fit testing. In 25 years, i’ve worn N95s for Tuberculosis patients, Laser plumes and when burning viral lesions but never for Influenza.

 

[Amynamous]

a few pages back there was some confusion on how they are counting the virus deaths. the media and government are reporting it as dying "of" the virus, but it seems as though they are counting anyone who dies "with" the virus.


how come the numbers keep going up even though everyone's wearing masks now?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoiQ9bpJsGA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9Ci2PZKZg

1. Wearing a cloth mask is not 100% effective. I’m guessing 80-90%.
2. Not everyone is wearing a mask.

 

[G.O. Joe]

it does not mean that he is wrong though

Who's the propagandist operating in a science vacuum? Science without reason is not science, something redhats will never care to know.

He starts with typical reverse accusation and the factually, experimentally (see my last post) untrue premise that masks don't filter fine particles, and doesn't stop there in his quest to join the already bloated professional liar business like everyone on youtube, Fox, and AM radio.

I guess he's saying that he's too stupid to understand that coming down with the flu is unrelated in every way to epidemics of coronavirus or other viruses, that a lot of doctors with some interest in health matters have been wearing masks for a long time, and they haven't been wearing them so that they don't get the flu.

Are there people here so stupid that they think if masks actually were effective, health care workers wouldn't get the flu if they wore those masks while at work? So stupid that they think that health care workers having diseases is proof that masks and every other sanitation measure in hospitals don't limit infections?

Health care workers should just stop wearing masks altogether on his say so then, since it's pointless and a liberal media conspiracy, right? Shouldn't there be some great Trump flag-waving movement demanding that no one wear masks during any medical procedures?