Was the Cannabis Castle (Sensi Seeds) ever raided?

[goingrey]

So recently I came across a reposting of this old post:

@Mustafunk wrote:

"Actually it was the same with ALL dutch seed banks, because around 2000 the dutch laws changed and banned outdoor big scale growing. There were police raids everywhere and everyone lost most parent plants. This is not a rumour, its an historical fact. Similar thing happend later in Switzerland around 2003. When people start getting greedy and draw too much attention, sometimes shit happens.

Anyway this forced companies to move into closet-breeding and outsourcing seed production (from Spain for example), as opposed to the huge scale outdoor breeding operations that were dominating the dutch scene in the 80s and early 90s. That's the reason why the pre-2000 thing appeared among growers, as probably that issue changed the strains for ever. Also that's why Mr Nice moved their operations to Switzerland until Shanti was raided.



On the other hand, I doubt Ben Dronkers ever had the best parent plants from Nevil as A5 Haze, C5 Haze, Haze BC, G13Haze, NL#5, Haze C, Haze A and so on... at least Nevil himself said a few times that when he sold the Castle, there were only leftovers there. But I guess we won't ever know the truth or which parents are companies using. What's obvious is that plants have changed.

Same with Mr Nice though... after Shanti's raid, for years their seeds were produced in Spain by a grow-shop pioneer called Karulo, who used to host Shantibaba and his family during his trips to Spain. He was even telling his friends how he produced them, pollinating all the females with the same male. Wonder about many grower's dissapointments after growing modern stocks from Sensi and Mr Nice...

For those looking for the legendary dutch genetics from the 90s, buying modern seeds from classic seedbanks will be a waste of time and money in my opinion. Better try to find a nice old clone or underground breeders working with those. You don't really know what to expect with big seed companies nowadays, they will tell you what you want to hear in order to sell seeds."

And according to this guy, everyone lost most parent plants and it is a historical fact.

The Cannabis Castle being such an iconic place you'd think a raid there would make the news or at the very least High Times. But I can't seem to find any such information.

I did find this 2017 interview of Alan Dronkers where he says:

The genetics [seed] bank and the maintaining of the genetic collection is still there and is now handled by HempFlax, not far from the castle. Since my departure in 2007, [Sensi Seeds] is still located in the castle, but nobody lives there anymore.

and

The law changed in 1998, making cultivation and breeding difficult. Fortunately, a permit has ensured that in any case the genetic collection could be maintained.

The Story Of The Legendary Dutch Cannabis Castle

Once owned by Nevil Schoenmakers, the Cannabis Castle later passed to the Dronkers of Sensi Seeds. We revisit its ’90s heyday with Alan Dronkers.

bigbudsmag.com

Ok sure he's biased. But does anyone have anything, a newspaper article or whatever, to actually disprove what he is saying? Or is it not such a "historical fact" after all?

 

[Creeperpark]

So recently I came across a reposting of this old post:



And according to this guy, everyone lost most parent plants and it is a historical fact.

The Cannabis Castle being such an iconic place you'd think a raid there would make the news or at the very least High Times. But I can't seem to find any such information.

I did find this 2017 interview of Alan Dronkers where he says:


and

The Story Of The Legendary Dutch Cannabis Castle

Once owned by Nevil Schoenmakers, the Cannabis Castle later passed to the Dronkers of Sensi Seeds. We revisit its ’90s heyday with Alan Dronkers.

bigbudsmag.com

Ok sure he's biased. But does anyone have anything, a newspaper article or whatever, to actually disprove what he is saying? Or is it not such a "historical fact" after all?

Interesting friend.

 

[goingrey]

Do we have anyone well versed in Dutch law on the forum? What's this about maintaining a genetic library being allowed but no breeding at the same location?

 

[CannaT]

Do we have anyone well versed in Dutch law on the forum? What's this about maintaining a genetic library being allowed but no breeding at the same location?

There was no raids at Sensi's. Comparing Mr.Nice seed bank to Sensi seeds its funny.

 

[CannaT]

Some Black Domina random pheno cuttings its 100% indica just as it ever was.

 

[CannaT]

Also forgot to add,that licence to grow hemp in Netherlands is very hard to get almost impossible if you are not Dronkers.

 

[OSS]

C. Castle has never been raided because it is a castle....easy! LoL

 

[William76]

Probably some sort of med permit or something,isn't jack a certified med strain in Holland,sure it was the only 1 a few years back.76

 

[goingrey]

Probably some sort of med permit or something,isn't jack a certified med strain in Holland,sure it was the only 1 a few years back.76

Bedrocan is a Jack pheno I believe but don't think it's grown by Sensi/HempFlax but GW Pharma themselves.

 

[CannaT]

Bedrocan is a Jack pheno I believe but don't think it's grown by Sensi/HempFlax but GW Pharma themselves.

Bedrocan not GW pharma.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

This is a post by Neville on the Mr Nice Forum and it indicates he took seeds and cuttings when he left Sensi for good:


"Sensi never had anything of their own. Prior to 1990 I sold seeds to Sensi to cover the Dutch market. Any reputation they had came from those seeds. I was a mistake to sell to Ben. Despite the deal, as soon as I ended up in jail Ben stopped buying seeds to put me under financial pressure to sell everything to him. He haggled for 6 months while lawyers chewed up my available cash. In the end, I was forced to sell for less than what I paid for the House and the 10Ha surrounding it. I got nothing for my stock. This is why I had no compunction in taking back my cuttings and a handful of seeds when I left. In the 2 years that I worked there as a consultant, I got everything back on track and then left. I left them in good shape, but considering that nobody there is so much as a breeders arsehole. I don't expect anything good will be produced again.
N."

This is from the now deleted Sensi forum, it's a 2010 post by the admin there at the time:

"As for definitive information on lineages, genetic makeup and breeding programs, Nevil knows, Ben and Alan Dronkers know, Eddie of Flying Dutchmen knows.

They (and very few others) were all working with their own genetics and original hybrids as well as the imported US cuttings and seeds back when that material first arrived in Holland. They're some of the only people in a position to know precisely what went into what. Very extensive records were kept, but most of what I've seen is almost impenetrable, as few famous strain names are used in breeding records. Most everything is alphanumeric codes, some of which refer to the strains or geographical origins of the parent plants, some of which indicate a place within a breeding program or hybrid/cultivar family.

This might partly be to do with secrecy, but a lot of it is just for ease of labelling and record-keeping. Also, in the Eighties, the naming of strains had not yet become a business in and of itself."

There's no telling what the exact genetics are from the classic strains of the '80s and '90s now but God knows there's enough hucksters slinging seeds based on more bullshit stories than one can ever imagine.

For Boomers, by Boomers, for Money.

Best way to find out who's got what is to plant the seed!!

 

[goingrey]

This is a post by Neville on the Mr Nice Forum and it indicates he took seeds and cuttings when he left Sensi for good:


"Sensi never had anything of their own. Prior to 1990 I sold seeds to Sensi to cover the Dutch market. Any reputation they had came from those seeds. I was a mistake to sell to Ben. Despite the deal, as soon as I ended up in jail Ben stopped buying seeds to put me under financial pressure to sell everything to him. He haggled for 6 months while lawyers chewed up my available cash. In the end, I was forced to sell for less than what I paid for the House and the 10Ha surrounding it. I got nothing for my stock. This is why I had no compunction in taking back my cuttings and a handful of seeds when I left. In the 2 years that I worked there as a consultant, I got everything back on track and then left. I left them in good shape, but considering that nobody there is so much as a breeders arsehole. I don't expect anything good will be produced again.
N."

This is from the now deleted Sensi forum, it's a 2010 post by the admin there at the time:

"As for definitive information on lineages, genetic makeup and breeding programs, Nevil knows, Ben and Alan Dronkers know, Eddie of Flying Dutchmen knows.

They (and very few others) were all working with their own genetics and original hybrids as well as the imported US cuttings and seeds back when that material first arrived in Holland. They're some of the only people in a position to know precisely what went into what. Very extensive records were kept, but most of what I've seen is almost impenetrable, as few famous strain names are used in breeding records. Most everything is alphanumeric codes, some of which refer to the strains or geographical origins of the parent plants, some of which indicate a place within a breeding program or hybrid/cultivar family.

This might partly be to do with secrecy, but a lot of it is just for ease of labelling and record-keeping. Also, in the Eighties, the naming of strains had not yet become a business in and of itself."

There's no telling what the exact genetics are from the classic strains of the '80s and '90s now but God knows there's enough hucksters slinging seeds based on more bullshit stories than one can ever imagine.

For Boomers, by Boomers, for Money.

Best way to find out who's got what is to plant the seed!!

Yeah but the supposed raids happened long after Nevil had left. In fact after he had even left GHS.

 

[William76]

It will never be the same again,sigh!,76

 

[Fuel]

And according to this guy, everyone lost most parent plants and it is a historical fact.

It's how it's looking, it's in fact just a pragmatic correlation (thinking in another lang).
The raids are a matter of fact (=historic). The variable geometry of those the most affected is another matter of fact ^^

 

[Morphote]

I think we all know the plants have changed. I would assume we are looking at different filial generations, not the P1s that started everything. And we know these seed companies all lie. They will all tell you that. Nevil really started a fire when he came back. He made clear he thought the plants had changed. He didn't use any of the newer seed stock Shanti sent him. Instead he requested old MNS stock from anyone who would give it to him. Says a lot about the business. I say we leave this subject alone and move on. Dig in the past and you will only get dirty.

M.

 

[goingrey]

I think we all know the plants have changed. I would assume we are looking at different filial generations, not the P1s that started everything. And we know these seed companies all lie. They will all tell you that. Nevil really started a fire when he came back. He made clear he thought the plants had changed. He didn't use any of the newer seed stock Shanti sent him. Instead he requested old MNS stock from anyone who would give it to him. Says a lot about the business. I say we leave this subject alone and move on. Dig in the past and you will only get dirty.

M.

They should own up and use it to their advantage, call the line like "Mango Haze IBL", wait that did happen haha. But even more widely. Hey even add a vintage, "Mango Haze IBL 2024". Get the collectors to buy a pack every year.

But to the point, I don't think we know that all parental plants have changed or been lost for sure at all. Ok we know of some cases like when Tony from Sagarmatha said so right here on ICMag... Or like how Simon from Serious has told about 3 versions of Kali Mist over the years or whatever. But for Sensi (or even MNS), no, we don't know this. It's just a bunch of people saying so because someone else said so, or from their own experiences but ones that could also have other explanations.

 

[Morphote]

They should own up and use it to their advantage, call the line like "Mango Haze IBL", wait that did happen haha. But even more widely. Hey even add a vintage, "Mango Haze IBL 2024". Get the collectors to buy a pack every year.

But to the point, I don't think we know that all parental plants have changed or been lost for sure at all. Ok we know of some cases like when Tony from Sagarmatha said so right here on ICMag... Or like how Simon from Serious has told about 3 versions of Kali Mist over the years or whatever. But for Sensi (or even MNS), no, we don't know this. It's just a bunch of people saying so because someone else said so, or from their own experiences but ones that could also have other explanations.

Well Nevil sure seemed convinced. That is a historical fact.

M.

 

[William76]

A lotta folks grew the originals(some still hav them)and the newer stuff,mostly they don't compare.76

 

[Fuel]

I personally like the Big Bud 2023.

 

[Rastafarout]

Another thing is if you follow mns on ig is they always post other peoples grows pointing out characteristics.. I always thought this a bit strange I mean if you have the parents why no pictures of your own stable …
So I was wondering if it’s a recognisable pheno /trait he is seeing from the past , he must get thousands of Picts emailed inboxed ect …just thought I would mention that