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Warehouse grow questions

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mightyogre

New member
Ok so on his first email back he hit me up with this:
4×4, 8 tubes, white, 432 watt, 800 umole/s $700

Sounded like a little wiggle room on price. He said he will make a few for me for cost to give to others to try first. I guess they are tubes? Ok. Whatever. He said colored led would be 25%more cost. He said it doesn't need fans, no built in fan.

Sent him back to the drawing board and asked for as close to 2000 umole/s as possible, as I have been told from a knowledgeable guy that these plants will eat all of that.

I am hearing that there are indeed some commercial scale going with led now. Talking to a guy who has built out three so fat and I am pressing for a chance to see if it is working.

How many emole/s should I be shooting for?

Sadly ohio went with a bill rather than the ballot, but we are going to try to make it work anyhow. It is on the governors desk and he is signing. This brings vertical into play.
 
S

Speed of green

Active member
I think most will agree that led is definitely the future, however the technology is still developing, and the prices are still quite high.

If your goal as a commercial grower is to do large scale experiments with unproven led lighting then I totally back you and truly hope that you find a great company to do the R&D and push the limits of led tech.

If your goal is to make money then I would listen to what nearly every person has said so far.

Efficiency tends to take a nose dive on larger scale grows, you used to never see people pulling 1gpw in horizontal commercial grows with standard 1000w hps lighting.

Gavita and nanolux (among others) have really changed the game with these DE commercial fixtures. With yields ranging from 1.5-3lbs per 1000-1200 watt fixture you can have the efficiency of a closet grow on a large scale.

I am somewhat cheap, I will use whatever equipment I buy as long as possible to get the biggest return on investment I possibly can. These DE fixtures are a no brainier, and with the current prices i think they crush any other fixture out there.

We all want led's to work, we would love to have a massive weight producing light that requires no A/C with the perfect spectrum, and one day I think led technology will get us there. But it's not there yet.

I guess at the end of the day this is your decision and only you can make it, my question to you is:

How many times do you want to build these rooms?
 
S

Speed of green

Active member
Here is a little price breakdown.

Good luck man!
mightyogre said:
Well.... let's see what the cost difference truly ends up being. I have the following factors to build in.

Much less hvac work
A less powerful ac machine
An energy efficient rebate check from the energy company per light
Less ballasts

Plus, I am not dealing with a company with a bunch of advertising costs, just an led technician/lighting engineer . They don't even have a product to sell me yet. They are building it from scratch. The cost might not be so bad.

I will let you guys know where this all goes.
Click to expand...

In your original post you stated you want 5000sqft flowering, so for simplicity sake lets work with those numbers.

Amare se450 Led fixture costs 1145.00- uses 450w covers a 4x4 area 16sqft

Your custom led fixture costs $700.00- uses 450w- covers 4x4 area
16sqft

nanolux de fixture costs $365.00 - uses 1200watts- covers 5x5 area 25sqft


Amare
5000sf/16= 313 fixtures @ $1145 =$358,000

Custom
5000sf/16= 313 fixtures @ $700 =$219,000

Nanolux
5000sf/25= 200 fixtures @ $365 =$73,000

Now for cooling you will need 3500-4000btu per 1000w.

lets use 4000btu to keep it simple & insure proper function on those hot summer days.

Amare
313 fixtures X 450w =141,000 watts total / 1000w= 141kw x 4000btu =564,000btu total cooling needed or 47tons

Custom
313 fixtures X 450w =141,000 watts total / 1000w= 141kw x 4000btu =564,000btu total cooling needed or 47tons

Nanolux
200 fixtures x 1200w =240,000 watts total/1000w= 240kw x 4000btu
=960,000btu total cooling needed or 80 tons

For example if you went with 5 ton units we will say $3500 for the unit and installation, if you do you research a 5 ton unit can be had for less.

Amare
47ton ÷ 5tons = 10 units @ $3500 = $35,000 installed

Custom
47ton ÷ 5tons = 10 units @ $3500 = $35,000 installed

Nanolux
80ton ÷ 5tons = 16 units @3500 = $56,000 installed

Now we move on to power consumption, I don't know you price for commercial electricity per kWh, i would say $0.25/kwh is a good guess to start.
A 5ton A/C uses about 7000w depending on efficiency. ill use this as a baseline to calculate electricity.


Amare
Lights
141kw X 12hours a day= 1692kwh per day X 30 days = 51,000kwh

A/c
10 units x 7000w =70kw x 12hours a day = 840kw X30 days =
25,200kwh

Total 76,200kwh X $0.25 = $19,050 monthly

Custom
Lights
141kw X 12hours a day= 1692kwh per day X 30 days = 51,000kwh

A/c
10 units x 7000w =70kw x 12hours a day = 840kw X30 days =
25,200kwh

Total 76,200kwh X $0.25 = $19,050 monthly

Nanolux
Lights
240kw X12hours a day= 2880 per day X30 days = 86,400kwh

A/C
16 units X 7000w = 112Kw X 12hours a day =1344Kw X 30days = 40,320 kWh

Total 126,720kwh X $0.25 = $31,680 monthly


Now for the finale, the total cost analysis and breakdown on your 5000sf grow.

Total buildout Cost for lights and A/C

Amare
Lights - $358,000
A/C - $35,000

Total $393,000

Custom
Lights - $219,000
A/C - $35,000

Total $254,000

Nanolux
Lights - $73,000
A/C - $56,000

Total $129,000

$125,000 more expensive to go with Custom LED's

$264,000 more expensive to go with Amare LED's



Monthly operating cost

Amare
$19050

Custom
$19050
Nanolux
$31,680

$31,680 - $19050 = $12630 savings a month to go LED


At this rate It would take roughly 20 months for the initial cost of the Amare LED's to balance out the higher monthly costs of the DE's

At this rate It would take roughly 9 months for the initial cost of the Custom LED's to balance out the higher monthly costs of the DE's

One topic i didn't touch on in this post was yield, as it varies widely by experience & method.

What yields more in the same space 240,000watts or 141,000 watts? I don't know, my gut says DE's but who knows.
 
M

mightyogre

New member
That was freaking awesome! I guess the bottom line here is that it will be up to the master gardener, and if he knows the de better than that will be it. The initial cost may not seem like that much of a difference, but it is over the long term when giving up equity to make up the difference. I betcha this goes de with a small experimental led room.

Looks like the led are the way to go for veg though, right? Thoughts on that? Also, 2k square feet for veg to keep the 5k flower full sound about right?
 
S

Speed of green

Active member
There are so many variables to that question, you could use probably 500sf for veg if you wanted to flower straight from clone 25-30 plants per light SOG style plant count would be crazy. You could grow trees with 6-8 week veg, lower plant count but more $ to veg. You could do a nice 3 week veg with 4 plants per light, I would say 2000sf would be plenty. I use 4000watts to veg for my 16k flower rooms.

I would break your rooms up into 20-30 lights each, multipe smaller rooms will give you more control over the environment, also you will be able to run different light cycles.

When I step up to a commercial space my goal is to do it in stages.

stage 1 I will buy the commercial space and 15 DE fixtures and a 5ton A/C

I will run this for two grows

Stage2 I will use the money I have saved from the first two grows to buy 15 more DE fixtures and another 5ton A/C

you get the picture.
 
M

mightyogre

New member
Governor signed it. Who wants to come on out to Ohio and work with me?

I did figure the plan at 3 flower rooms.

New twist. It hit the news that the governor signed it and a city called me that I was talking to on another property like 30 minutes later. Needs a roof.... I am thinking glass over part of it. Only 275k for a freaking 60k sq ft building. That is ohio for you. Ripe as hell.
 
Picarus

Picarus

Member
How did you get info on the licensing system already? Seems like these grows would likely fall to crony capiitalism.
How many cultivation sites are they allowing?
Are they actually issuing licensing or just writing up the law and never letting anyone set up shop?
Good luck, can't wait to see how this unfolds!
 
M

mightyogre

New member
Picarus said:
How did you get info on the licensing system already? Seems like these grows would likely fall to crony capiitalism.
How many cultivation sites are they allowing?
Are they actually issuing licensing or just writing up the law and never letting anyone set up shop?
Good luck, can't wait to see how this unfolds!
Click to expand...

Well, we know little about the syste yet, but we will be participating in the rule-making process. I say "we" because this is a group effort. An outline has been placed into the law.

The number of sites is tbd based on the rule making process.

They will indeed let shops be set up.

My main concern is that they are going to require doctors to get a certificate from the state, which could hurt progression. That is for certain.

In general, I am getting worries that participation will be low because getting a card is a pain in the ass. Doctor clinics will be needed. If it is too hard it won't work, because 3.5 ounces is a minor misdemeanor with no court appearance or record in Ohio anyhow.
 
Picarus

Picarus

Member
Mighty,
I hope things come around for you but the state is in purgatory. The state is going to drag its feet writing the requirements, they have 2 years to do so, and nothing starts until they do. Politicians move slow, and guess what happens if they don't write anything for the full two years? Nothing. Be wise with your capital.
 
M

mightyogre

New member
Picarus said:
Mighty,
I hope things come around for you but the state is in purgatory. The state is going to drag its feet writing the requirements, they have 2 years to do so, and nothing starts until they do. Politicians move slow, and guess what happens if they don't write anything for the full two years? Nothing. Be wise with your capital.
Click to expand...

Ya that's what i thought, but I have it on pretty good account that they are serious about moving much faster that the "no later than" dates listed. I guess I will believe it when I see it, but I do have this info from a solid and non biased (not a pro cannibis hopeful) source. Two, actually.


We will likely get a large building but start small within it. Keeping most of the capital dry as things progress.
 
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