War
- Thread starter Creeperpark
- Start date
Just the one side.
Only.
Only.
Only one side.
Israel attacked itself and handed hostages to Hamas.
Duh.
Duh.
is there a criminal warrant for him specifically, or was he guilty of being a member of IDF, and that was enough for them to want to hold him/family? i've not heard anything about it. not everyone feels safe putting themselves at the mercy of other nations legal systems if they can avoid it. history , you know?
GenghisKush
Well-known member
Cannavore, why are you still amplifying messages created by nazis?
Of course, the purported English translation of the German speech is a lie.
But moreover, the account who originally posted this lie, which you shared without criticism of any sort, is a Nazi.
First clue: The guy has a stylized SS in his display name
second clue: all the literal Nazi propaganda the guy posts
@Cannavore you are not helping the Palestinian cause, you are making Palistinians out to be monsters who are supported by literal Nazis.
It would help if you understood how twitter worked. the slovenia nazi account was the original uploader of the video, which i didn't post, as it clearly says ADAM at the top of the post i made.
here's the translation that i just ran an mp3 through a translator:
"Self-defense means, of course, that one does not just attack terrorists but destroys them. That is why I made it very clear that when Hamas terrorists take cover behind people, behind homosexuals(?), we enter very difficult areas of discussion, but we do not shy away from that. That is why I made it clear before the United Nations that civilian places can also lose their protection status because terrorists abuse it. Germany stands by this, and it means for us the security of Israel."
while this isn't exactly what ADAM posted as the context, it still essentially means the same thing. they will target civilians and civilian infrastructure, as they have been for the last year+, if it means they think they will kill some hamas members.
here's the translation that i just ran an mp3 through a translator:
"Self-defense means, of course, that one does not just attack terrorists but destroys them. That is why I made it very clear that when Hamas terrorists take cover behind people, behind homosexuals(?), we enter very difficult areas of discussion, but we do not shy away from that. That is why I made it clear before the United Nations that civilian places can also lose their protection status because terrorists abuse it. Germany stands by this, and it means for us the security of Israel."
while this isn't exactly what ADAM posted as the context, it still essentially means the same thing. they will target civilians and civilian infrastructure, as they have been for the last year+, if it means they think they will kill some hamas members.
being a mass murderer and doing crimes against humanity is surely "enough"
why would you? us media is complicit in this genocide
international law > nazis feeling safe
GenghisKush
Well-known member
You cannot even lie convincingly. What a mediocre nazi you are.
Her words, translated by me: "If Hamas terrorists dig themselves in behind people, behind schools, then we find ourselves entering very difficult issues... and these areas can lose their protected status."
The fabricated quote your guy posted was, literally, copy-and-pasted from the nazi account. With one amendment: your guy deleted the Star of David and replaced it with the German flag.
cannavore posted:
original:
GenghisKush
Well-known member
@Cannavore even with all of this, what do YOU think the phrase, "Germany has been colonised" is supposed to mean? Colonised by whom, do you think?
You shared that from your pal ADAM (sic). Presumably it's a message you look upon with some approval. After all, it is a message you chose to amplify.
You shared that from your pal ADAM (sic). Presumably it's a message you look upon with some approval. After all, it is a message you chose to amplify.
and what do you think that means lmao
how many schools and hospitals have they destroyed under the pretense that hamas had a command and control base underground or whatever only to find absolutely nothing?
this is sly justification of civilian targets.
GenghisKush
Well-known member
I think it means what it says. Hamas hides in schools, behind children, thereby putting those buildings, those children, in harm's way. Because they are murderous rapist terrorists who target civilians and take hostages. Hamas hides in hospitals, in schools, behind children, and in so doing commits war crimes. And then you cheer, and you go to push nazi propaganda on the weed forum.
GenghisKush
Well-known member
are you truly this stupid?
GenghisKush
Well-known member
The Hostages Next Door: Inside a Notable Gaza Family’s Dark Secret
To the outside world, they were a physician, a journalist. No one suspected their apartment had become a prison.
Israeli hostages were held in two apartment buildings in the Gaza Strip refugee camp of Nuseirat. Eyad Baba/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
By Abeer Ayyoub
Updated June 17, 2024 1:14 am ET
The 73-year-old general practitioner Ahmad Al-Jamal was a fixture of his community.
He worked mornings at a public clinic in the Gaza Strip refugee camp of Nuseirat and afternoons at his own small private clinic, where residents turned to him for procedures such as circumcisions. He also was an imam at a local mosque, where he was known for his beautiful voice when reciting the Quran.
But for the past several months, when he finished his duties each day, he would return home to the apartment he shared with his son, his daughter-in-law and their children—and the three Israeli hostages they were hiding there for Hamas.
It was common knowledge in Nuseirat that the Al-Jamal family was close to Hamas, according to local residents who spoke to The Wall Street Journal. But they said few people in the densely populated area in central Gaza knew of the secret locked in the small, darkened room in the family’s apartment.
The hostages and Israeli security forces have said their captors included Al-Jamal’s son, 37-year-old Palestinian journalist Abdullah Al-Jamal. From their locked and guarded room, the hostages said, they could hear Abdullah and his wife, Fatma, a phlebotomist at a local clinic, and their children going about their daily lives in the apartment.
The building on Bisan Street is no longer standing. An Israeli airstrike destroyed it earlier this month, soon after Israeli commandos burst into the apartment and extracted the hostages, according to local residents. Abdullah and his father were killed in the operation along with Abdullah’s wife, according to the local residents, who confirmed the sequence of events.
The Al-Jamals’ children survived the raid, according to a next-door neighbor.
A few blocks away from the Al-Jamal home, another family with Hamas links called Abu Nar was holding Noa Argamani, according to local residents and an Israeli official. Argamani’s kidnapping at the Nova festival was recorded on video, making her one of the best-known of the roughly 250 hostages taken Oct. 7.
The Abu Nar family was also killed, and their building destroyed, local residents said. They were less prominent in the neighborhood than the Al-Jamals, residents said.
Surviving members of the Al-Jamal family declined to comment or weren’t reachable.
Israeli’s military operation in Nuseirat on June 8 rescued the four hostages but also left a large number of Palestinians dead following heavy fighting.
The Israeli military said the special forces who carried out the rescue eliminated armed Hamas militants guarding the hostages but declined to comment on whether they killed the family members they encountered in both buildings. The military didn’t reply to a request for comment on whether it destroyed the buildings.
The rubble where the Al-Jamal family once lived has drawn a steady flow of gawkers eager to see the place where hostages had been imprisoned in their midst, some of the people said.
Satellite images from June 6, and then on June 12, after the Israeli military operation to free hostages held in the Nuseirat refugee camp, show the damage to the neighborhood.
The June 8 rescue operation was accompanied by heavy airstrikes and turned into a fierce battle with Hamas in the streets, leaving behind death and destruction. In the days since, local residents have discussed the folly of Hamas keeping Israeli hostages above ground in a residential area near a bustling market.
Some people said they were surprised by the revelation, because it is hard to keep a secret in the densely built neighborhood. Even a cough can be heard through the walls of the concrete and cinder-block apartment buildings, they said.
Others were furious that Hamas had put civilians in danger. Any Israeli military action in the narrow streets of Nuseirat was bound to result in large numbers of dead and wounded, some residents said.
Some locals said Hamas should have held the hostages in tunnels. Others said they should have been returned to Israel as part of a deal to end the war. The failure to secure a cease-fire despite months of negotiations is causing growing frustration in Gaza, people across the war-torn enclave say.
“Hamas should give us a map of the safe zones we can stay in, because if we knew there were hostages in the neighborhood, we would have looked for another place,” said Mustafa Muhammad, 36, who fled from Gaza City to Nuseirat early in the war with his wife and infant daughter.
When the raid got under way, Muhammad and his family found themselves trapped with nowhere safe to go.
Many hostages have been held in tunnels, but a number have been held in apartments, potentially reflecting the challenge of moving around so many captives in an active war zone.
Local residents said Ahmad and Abdullah Al-Jamal were part of an extended family that had a number of ties to Hamas. Mosques throughout Gaza are controlled by Hamas, and imams serve with the approval of the militant group. Ahmad’s brother Abdelrahman Al-Jamal is a Hamas lawmaker in Gaza’s legislative council.
Abdullah was a freelance contributor to the Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Palestinian news website based in the U.S. He also worked for the Hamas-run news agency Palestine Now, according to Gaza’s government media office, which noted his death, and had served as a spokesman for Gaza’s Hamas-run Ministry of Labor.
He made no secret of his support for the Hamas-led attack on southern Israel on Oct. 7, in which nearly 1,200 people were killed, most of them civilians. Israel’s subsequent invasion of Gaza has killed over 37,000 people, according to Palestinian health authorities, whose numbers don’t say how many were militants.
“Praise be to God…Oh God, guide us…Oh God, guide us…Oh God, guide us…Oh God, grant us the victory you promised,” Abdullah posted on Facebook on Oct. 7.
The Palestine Chronicle said it was saddened by his death and denied he was involved in holding the Israeli hostages.
The family was well-regarded and popular in Nuseirat, a refugee camp established after the 1948 Arab-Israeli war that has grown into a dense urban area. Palestinian refugee camps, especially in the West Bank, remain focal points of a militant struggle against Israel.
The Al-Jamals originally came from the majority Arab town of Al-Ramla, now Ramla in central Israel, and fled to Gaza in 1948.
Ahmad, the head of the family, was busy throughout the war, coming and going from his clinic and the mosque or buying groceries as normal, a neighbor said. His son Abdullah was rarely seen, the neighbor said.
“Dr. Ahmad was the one who circumcised my three boys,” said Ali Bkhit, a social-media consultant who was born and raised in the neighborhood. “When I dealt with him, he was a nice character; his smile never left his face.”
Bkhit said he grew up hearing Ahmad Al-Jamal’s voice reciting the Quran at the local Al-Farouk Mosque. “He was always there, his voice was beautiful, and people admired him a lot,” he said.
Bkhit said he was shocked to learn that the Al-Jamals had been holding hostages in their home, because he didn’t expect the family to be involved in such a way in Hamas’s war with Israel.
Israeli intelligence caught wind of the hostages’ location in May, according to Israel’s military. Special forces spent weeks practicing for the rescue mission on models of the two small apartment blocks, the military said.
The hostages’ return home caused jubilation in Israel. It was a rare day of joy amid a grim war that is still far from achieving its declared goals of destroying Hamas and bringing home the 116 remaining Israelis and others seized on Oct. 7.
The Nuseirat area, swollen with civilians displaced from other parts of Gaza, suffered the heaviest bombardment by Israeli air and ground forces that it has seen in the eight-month war.
Palestinian health authorities said 274 people were killed and nearly 700 injured. Israel’s military said around 100 people were killed or wounded, including militants and civilians caught in the crossfire. The numbers couldn’t be independently verified.
Rescue team leader Arnon Zamora was wounded in a firefight at the Al-Jamal house and later died.
A video released by Israel’s military showed commandos entering a room in the apartment and finding the three male hostages. In the second building, about 200 yards away, Israeli commandos found Noa Argamani.
Abdullah Al-Jamal’s recent articles for the Palestine Chronicle reported on civilian deaths in the invasion of Gaza, accusing Israel of massacres and genocide.
One article published on June 3, just a few days before he died, talked about Gaza families that had taken in people displaced by the war. It carried the headline, “My House Will Always Be Open.”
Marcus Walker and Dov Lieber contributed to this article.
GenghisKush
Well-known member
Unwilling to Be Human Shields, Some Gazans Turn Gunmen Away From Shelters
Residents, already forced to flee their homes by intense bombardment, want to avoid becoming a target for Israeli forces hunting Hamas.
Checking a school housing displaced people that was hit during Israeli bombardment in Nuseirat, in the central Gaza Strip, in June. Bashar Taleb/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
By Bilal Shbair and Matthew Mpoke Bigg
Sept. 10, 2024, 5:40 a.m. ET
When the war forced Nasser al-Zaanin to flee his home in northern Gaza in October, he, along with his adult sons and grandchildren, moved to a school that had been turned into a shelter.
There, at the Abdul Kareem al-Aklouk school in the town of Deir al Balah, he helped set up a system of committees to improve life for families who had taken refuge. The committees oversaw food, water and medical needs, and they had one red line: No armed men were allowed in the compound.
Residents, already forced to evacuate their homes because of Israel’s intense bombardment, wanted to avoid becoming a target for Israeli forces hunting down Hamas militants. Every few days in recent weeks, Israel has hit a school building turned shelter where it has said militants are hiding, including on Saturday, when it struck two compounds in northern Gaza that it said Hamas was using as a military base.
Early in the conflict, Mr. Zaanin said, Hamas had wanted to station police officers at the shelter where he was staying. The group said it would ensure security, but he said the residents had gathered to stop that.
“All the families agreed,” said Mr. Zaanin, 56, who once worked as a civil servant for the Palestinian Authority in Gaza.
“We simply want to save all families, women and children and not let there be any potential threat against us because of the existence of police and members of the Hamas government,” he said. The police, Mr. al-Zaanin added, could stand outside the building but not inside.
Several other residents of school shelters in central Gaza recounted similar stories, though attitudes in other areas were unknown. It is hard to know how widespread the phenomenon is, and whether the armed militia are from Hamas, Islamic Jihad or other armed gangs, but these residents’ experiences suggest that at least some evacuees have blocked armed militias from moving into these shelters.
Palestinian women weeping as they evacuated a school where they had been sheltering in Deir al Balah, Gaza, last month. Abdel Kareem Hana/Associated Press
“We will quickly kick anyone who has a gun or a rifle out of this school,” said Saleh al-Kafarneh, 62, who lives at another government school in Deir al Balah and said he locked the gates at night. “We don’t allow anyone to ruin life here, or cause any strike against those civilians and families.” A third resident, Mohammed Shehda al-Obwaini, 57, said he would fight any armed men if he found them in a school shelter.
The residents’ testimonies also suggested that Hamas’s grip on the enclave may be weakened by the war and that ad hoc community groups are starting to operate outside the organization’s control, at least on a small scale.
The accounts, which cannot be independently confirmed, come as Israel has sharply increased the rate of its airstrikes on schools turned shelters to target what it calls Hamas command-and-control centers. It says militants have “cynically exploited” these sensitive sites to plan operations. Hamas, a militant group rather than a conventional army, has used both civilian structures and tunnels as defenses. It was not possible to confirm whether armed or unarmed militants stay in the school shelters.
“Strikes against this infrastructure are conducted in accordance with international law, with the purpose of preventing the restoration of terrorist organizations’ capabilities,” an Israeli military statement said last month. The military also says it acts using precise intelligence and takes steps to minimize civilian harm.
Hundreds of people have been killed in the attacks, according to local health officials. In one particularly deadly example on Aug. 10, the Gaza Civil Defense emergency service said that more than 90 people were killed in a strike on a school in northern Gaza. The toll could not be confirmed independently. Israel said that it had killed at least 31 Islamic Jihad and Hamas fighters and that the compound itself had not been severely damaged.
Palestinians inspecting the damage after a strike on a school in northern Gaza on Aug. 10. Mahmoud Zaki/EPA, via Shutterstock
In Saturday,’s strikes, Gazan rescue services said the first had killed four people, and medics said the second had killed three and wounded 20 more.
The Israeli military has said that it has found weapons stored at schools or struck armed militants there. In some cases, the military has said that Hamas used schools as a “hiding place to direct and plan numerous attacks” against Israeli troops.
More recently, some of the military’s reports about the strikes have not mentioned weapons, and on Saturday, it did not say whether the militants targeted in the strike were armed.
The military, in recent weeks, has not explained in its statements how it arrived at its intelligence conclusions or given more details about whom it has targeted.
The United Nations, the European Union and several governments have sharply criticized Israel’s government over the strikes. Senior U.N. officials argue that to target schools — many of which are run by the United Nations — violates international law and that Israel has a duty to protect civilians caught in the war.
Formal education has been suspended in Gaza because of the war, and hundreds of schools have been turned into shelters. The shelters have played a vital role in Gaza, which has been shattered by more than 10 months of war. Almost all of the enclave’s 2.2 million residents have fled their homes, and some people say they have been forced to move as many as 10 times, often in response to Israeli warnings.
In addition, more than half of all residential buildings in the enclave have been damaged or destroyed, mainly by Israeli airstrikes, the World Bank said in January. At the same time, more than 80 percent of Gaza’s schools and all 12 of its universities have been severely damaged or destroyed, according to the United Nations.
Some people have stayed with relatives. Hundreds of thousands now live in makeshift tents. Others have decamped to overcrowded school compounds, with families living in classrooms, corridors and yards.
In the close-knit Gazan society, established families seem to have sway in the shelters.
“We are the oldest generation here,” Mr. Kafarneh said. As new people arrive, he said, “We ask about that person, their political views, just to be aware of who they are.”
“We don’t allow anyone to enter with their rifle, whether he is a militant or from a big tribe or family.”
Israel’s recent attacks on the schools have deepened the misery and sense of insecurity for civilians who live there, not least because the attacks often come without warning.
Mai Riyad al-Basyouni, 22, who lived at a government school in Deir al Balah with her husband and 3-month-old daughter, said that women and children were particularly at risk because they stayed indoors at the school, whereas men were often at the markets during the day.
She said she had been at the school for nine months and wanted to leave because of the airstrikes but could not afford to rent elsewhere. A particular worry was shrapnel, which she said she feared could pierce her tent with ease.
“Hearing the news of targeting more schools makes my daily life more miserable, stressful and traumatic,” she said.
Mohammed Shehda al-Obwaini, 57, said he used to live in a school shelter west of Deir al Balah but left after it was hit a few weeks ago and has now pitched a tent for himself and his family near a soccer field.
He described the attack on the school where he had stayed as terrifying.
“Is Israel fighting the Palestinians or Hamas?” he said. “We have had enough suffering and killing. We have enough death among us.”
The aftermath of a strike that hit a school complex in the north of Gaza City early last month. Omar Al-Qattaa/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Matthew Mpoke Bigg is a London-based reporter on the Live team at The Times, which covers breaking and developing news.
Fearing Airstrikes, Gaza School Shelters Try to Bar Hamas and Others …
archived 10 Sep 2024 22:55:57 UTC
