Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[Billy Burroughs]

ok i was more worried about the humidity than anything it made some of the smaller weaker cuttings i took the ones i didnt have much faith in to start with but gave them a chance anyways have all more les turned to like slime the bigger cuttings are loving it temps right at 79-80 and humidity is 97-98%

 

[shakeyatl]

Ah there's a clue, if you're comparing plants from seeds to clones you likely will see a time difference in how long they take to finish. Not as bad as what you describe but for the most part clones finish faster then seedlings. I've heard of seed plants that take 60 days to finish and yet their clones finish around 45 days or so. Also if a seedling plant is put into flower before it is fully mature it seems to me like they take a little longer. It's as if the plant upon realizing it's in flower has to hurry up and finish maturing before it let's itself flower. That may not be what is actually happening but that's how it seems to me.

20 stars for hempkat. you told me I put them into flower early without knowing that.

In fact I was in a rush and puts the plants into flower at week 4 of vegg rather than wait.

Damn my lack of patience

Much props to hempkat

 

[HempKat]

20 stars for hempkat. you told me I put them into flower early without knowing that.

In fact I was in a rush and puts the plants into flower at week 4 of vegg rather than wait.

Damn my lack of patience

Much props to hempkat

Okay now keep in mind I'm speculating on that slowing flowering down based on what I've noticed in my experience and other people's experiences.

One other thing I forgot to mention, although this probably isn't it but it does often cause problems and is hard to detect if you don't know to look for it, is soil compaction. So I mention it more for those who just might be reading along.For whatever reasons alot of folks like to really pack alot of soil into the pots and press it down pretty firmly. This makes things difficult for the roots to push thru and the soil doesn't breath as well, with the end result being poor growth. So when you're filling your pots remember, don't pack the soil. Put it in loosely and then tap it on the ground a few times to get the soil to settle in place. When you first water you may find the soil level sinks lower then you planned but ultimately you plant will breath and grow better. Also your soil will dry out quicker so remember to check it regularly.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

Well why don't you just ask your friend what he does? As for opening things up. Well there are a number of ways to do that. Obviously with training you decide what direction things are going to grow so that should be able to do it but another way is to top it low, like at the 2nd to 4th node. Then the four or so branches left will become your grow tips and as the buds develope and put on weight the weight will naturally cause the plant to open up. Be careful though, if this strain really produces basketball sized buds then the weight could potentially cause the main stalk to split.

I MYSELF HAVE NEVER GOT THIS STRAIN TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR THIS SIZE OF BUDS I GAVE A CUT oh sorry anyways i gave a cut to a friend and he got 4-6 ounces outta each plant best i ever done on one was just under 2 but i always was under a rushed veg time typically would only get 4-6 weeks veg and then the rest were ready but it was a few weeks behind and i flower everything at once and take the cuttings i get for my next round for clones and rinse repeat but i top my plants exactally like you just explained first chop is at node 3 then second is at node 3 off them shoots so the branches splitting was a concern i typically stake and tie and what not really i cant live it down that this old fucker about 60 whooped my ass and i told him how to do it

 

[Billy Burroughs]

20 stars for hempkat. you told me I put them into flower early without knowing that.

In fact I was in a rush and puts the plants into flower at week 4 of vegg rather than wait.

Damn my lack of patience

Much props to hempkat

yeah gotta get that 60 days at least this strain i keep referring too every time its been cloned and put into veg it's always been a month to a few weeks behind everything else and huge difference my buddy is getting 3 times the yield i am outta a strain he also way over veg's as well he does a 3-4 month veg and grows real tall plants and i refuse knee high it's time for flower bottom line my rooms crowded enough with the plants i'm allowed theres no way i could grow 8 foot plants well i could grow 7 footers easily my lights are stationary and i got the room but i just havent seen any more yield outta his 6-8 foot plants which are mostly stem than the shorter 4-5 foot range i firmly believe it's in the pruning personally i didnt even start to get good yields till i learned how to properly prune all the underbrush and what nots the stuff that just steals from your big colas which i dunno about you but i want the biggest colas i can get they make purdy pictures
i think i'm going to grow this m-39 strain out like he does a real long veg it doesnt get tall at all but bushes out huge only way i'm going to be able to redeem myself i think but i figured on one of them beings i'm going to have 2 i might try something different like super cropping but this seems more of an outdoor technique rather than indoor from what i've gathered so i figured a long veg and many toppings might do just as well if not better as long as i get all the bottom crap cut off my buddy is weird about pruning he never takes lower branches he only prunes from the top as well i've tried to show him how much cleaner it is and how much more light you get by removing dead leaves and all that under growth for instance here a week ago i went over to take clones of some of my genetics i'd given him that the pigs relieved me of and i thought he was going to have a coronary right there over me snipping off bottom branches lol oops myself i've never pruned from anywhere else unless i was trying to top
but thanx for the advice hempkat

 

[Billy Burroughs]

heres another question for ya old guys not that i feel any younger but uh molasses how much is enough how much is overkill my brothers taught me everything i know about growing that and trial and error my brother says 2-3 TBS of molasses per gallon of water then i've also been told thats overkill beings that molasses isnt food for the plant it's more for the micro herd so far the almost 2 years i've been growing i've been using 2 TBS per gallon of water of organic blackstrap molasses but hell that stuffs expensive if 2 TBS is overkill 2-3tps wouls deffinatelly be a small money saver but hey pennies are pennies get a hundred you gotta buck just dont see the sense in throwing money away

 

[Gold123]

heres another question for ya old guys not that i feel any younger but uh molasses how much is enough how much is overkill my brothers taught me everything i know about growing that and trial and error my brother says 2-3 TBS of molasses per gallon of water then i've also been told thats overkill beings that molasses isnt food for the plant it's more for the micro herd so far the almost 2 years i've been growing i've been using 2 TBS per gallon of water of organic blackstrap molasses but hell that stuffs expensive if 2 TBS is overkill 2-3tps wouls deffinatelly be a small money saver but hey pennies are pennies get a hundred you gotta buck just dont see the sense in throwing money away

I only use 1 tsp. Check this out:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94653

 

[blwd67]

Hey, all. I finally got some pictures up, I am going to post them so you can see what I was talking about (yellowing leaves and size).

The first three are the Safari Mix plant, in the first photograph you can see the yellowed leaf and burnt tip. Its opposite is pretty much the same. The last is the Ice, it looks like its doing ok, except its kind of small.

 

[shakeyatl]

Okay now keep in mind I'm speculating on that slowing flowering down based on what I've noticed in my experience and other people's experiences.

One other thing I forgot to mention, although this probably isn't it but it does often cause problems and is hard to detect if you don't know to look for it, is soil compaction. So I mention it more for those who just might be reading along.For whatever reasons alot of folks like to really pack alot of soil into the pots and press it down pretty firmly. This makes things difficult for the roots to push thru and the soil doesn't breath as well, with the end result being poor growth. So when you're filling your pots remember, don't pack the soil. Put it in loosely and then tap it on the ground a few times to get the soil to settle in place. When you first water you may find the soil level sinks lower then you planned but ultimately you plant will breath and grow better. Also your soil will dry out quicker so remember to check it regularly.

I use ffof plus added perlite

It hit me like a ton of bricks when you said something about them not being ready to flower.

That explains why the others are doing so much better vegged for 7 weeks trying to get first couple ahead for a revolving harvest

Just goes to show education and hearsay will never compare to experience

I feel so much better now

 

[HempKat]

I MYSELF HAVE NEVER GOT THIS STRAIN TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR THIS SIZE OF BUDS I GAVE A CUT oh sorry anyways i gave a cut to a friend and he got 4-6 ounces outta each plant best i ever done on one was just under 2 but i always was under a rushed veg time typically would only get 4-6 weeks veg and then the rest were ready but it was a few weeks behind and i flower everything at once and take the cuttings i get for my next round for clones and rinse repeat but i top my plants exactally like you just explained first chop is at node 3 then second is at node 3 off them shoots so the branches splitting was a concern i typically stake and tie and what not really i cant live it down that this old fucker about 60 whooped my ass and i told him how to do it

Well a bit of extra veg time can make all the difference but for it to really do any good you have to train it as well so that the extra veg growth is more vertical then horizontal. That way you have a more even canopy and so all or most of the plant is staying well within the optimal range of the light.

Now here's something else to consider although this is more just personal advice rather then grow advice. When comparing yourself to this old man you have to make sure all things are equal otherwise the conclusions you draw may be skewed. From little things you've said here and there it sounds like you're more about production then about growing a prize winning plant. Which is fine prizes for plants are something that belongs at a fair or some 4H (agricultural club for kids) event. It's alot easier to grow a prize winning plant though if that's all you have to focus on or worry about. If on the other hand you got more plants waiting for the room to open then you don't have the same luxury of time. Your both pursuing efficiency you're just going about it different. He maximized the potential of the plant whereas you try to maximize the potential of the space and the growing season.

So lets say he gets his 4+ ounces per plant and you get your 2+ but now lets say his harvest took 4 more weeks to realize. Who really did better then and who will do better overall by the end of the growing season?

 

[HempKat]

yeah gotta get that 60 days at least this strain i keep referring too every time its been cloned and put into veg it's always been a month to a few weeks behind everything else and huge difference my buddy is getting 3 times the yield i am outta a strain he also way over veg's as well he does a 3-4 month veg and grows real tall plants and i refuse knee high it's time for flower bottom line my rooms crowded enough with the plants i'm allowed theres no way i could grow 8 foot plants well i could grow 7 footers easily my lights are stationary and i got the room but i just havent seen any more yield outta his 6-8 foot plants which are mostly stem than the shorter 4-5 foot range i firmly believe it's in the pruning personally i didnt even start to get good yields till i learned how to properly prune all the underbrush and what nots the stuff that just steals from your big colas which i dunno about you but i want the biggest colas i can get they make purdy pictures
i think i'm going to grow this m-39 strain out like he does a real long veg it doesnt get tall at all but bushes out huge only way i'm going to be able to redeem myself i think but i figured on one of them beings i'm going to have 2 i might try something different like super cropping but this seems more of an outdoor technique rather than indoor from what i've gathered so i figured a long veg and many toppings might do just as well if not better as long as i get all the bottom crap cut off my buddy is weird about pruning he never takes lower branches he only prunes from the top as well i've tried to show him how much cleaner it is and how much more light you get by removing dead leaves and all that under growth for instance here a week ago i went over to take clones of some of my genetics i'd given him that the pigs relieved me of and i thought he was going to have a coronary right there over me snipping off bottom branches lol oops myself i've never pruned from anywhere else unless i was trying to top
but thanx for the advice hempkat

Well if you're going to grow 7 to 8 foot plants indoors and you want good yields you got to either go with vertical lighting or have side lighting to get the lower areas. Otherwise it'll be like you say, alot of stem and about the same yield as a bush half the height.

 

[HempKat]

heres another question for ya old guys not that i feel any younger but uh molasses how much is enough how much is overkill my brothers taught me everything i know about growing that and trial and error my brother says 2-3 TBS of molasses per gallon of water then i've also been told thats overkill beings that molasses isnt food for the plant it's more for the micro herd so far the almost 2 years i've been growing i've been using 2 TBS per gallon of water of organic blackstrap molasses but hell that stuffs expensive if 2 TBS is overkill 2-3tps wouls deffinatelly be a small money saver but hey pennies are pennies get a hundred you gotta buck just dont see the sense in throwing money away

Well I say cut what you've been doing in half and give them 1 tablespoon per gallon. That's what I've been doing since I've been using molassas and I've never seen any problems from it.

 

[HempKat]

I use ffof plus added perlite

It hit me like a ton of bricks when you said something about them not being ready to flower.

That explains why the others are doing so much better vegged for 7 weeks trying to get first couple ahead for a revolving harvest

Just goes to show education and hearsay will never compare to experience

I feel so much better now

Well do keep in mind I'm just making an educated guess, I could be wrong but based on what you've said that seems like the best explaination.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

yeah totally he's lacking on light so he has a bunch of them ufo lights he bought and when i first met him he was swearing by them to me trying to get me to buy them and i could just tell by looking at it that no way this isnt going to work anyways i used one in my veg room along side a regular ole shop light them plants under the shop light were double the size before i scrapped his lil experiment and the ones that were under the ufo light had these yellow marbling in there leafs it was weirdest thing i ever saw the leafs stayed that way all the way through flower it wasnt all the leafs just a few but still have never seen it before but he still runs them ufo's in his flower room trying to despweratelly make up for light when he has 4 brand new 1000 watt cheapie digital ballasts and sealed hoods just chillen in his living room but thats for his house grow he's buying a house and going to try some hokey deal and say it's rented to himself so they couldnt seize his house he was telling me but i dunno i've always thought if it sounds to good to be true well then probably is so well he was using bottled nutes till he met me now we got him on true organics composting his soil and what not buying the ammendments and mixing them up and then letting it compost he couldnt believe how much money it saved him and how well it worked so maybe sooner or later he'll change up the tall trees he flowers out the plant for 60 days or so then he chops the top half off then flowers out the bottom half for another month or so this is on a guess on the time he flowers out the bottom but i know he lets them go a considerable amount more than the top of the plant weird shit if you ask me but hey man whatever floats your boat

 

[shakeyatl]

Here is another question. I am used to hydro and this is my first soil based (organic) grow.

I am feeding Iguana Juice and my nute solution at the suggested

water\nute ratio

reads 447ppm (with a starting clean water read of 27ppm)

wich is an ec. of about .63. for both the grow and the bloom. Now

in hydroponics I ran my ec levels from 1 in the first couple weeks

gradually increasing it to 1.9.

so my question is should my levels be higher as in the hydro solution or not.

If they do need to be higher should I double the strength of the I.J. which has pretty low

N-P-K values at 3-1-3 for the grow 440 ppm at 3.5 ml\litre and 4-3-6 for the bloom at

the same water\nute ratio or add more of another type of nute since the Advanced line is

so extensive.

 

[HempKat]

Here is another question. I am used to hydro and this is my first soil based (organic) grow.

I am feeding Iguana Juice and my nute solution at the suggested

water\nute ratio

reads 447ppm (with a starting clean water read of 27ppm)

wich is an ec. of about .63. for both the grow and the bloom. Now

in hydroponics I ran my ec levels from 1 in the first couple weeks

gradually increasing it to 1.9.

so my question is should my levels be higher as in the hydro solution or not.

If they do need to be higher should I double the strength of the I.J. which has pretty low

N-P-K values at 3-1-3 for the grow 440 ppm at 3.5 ml\litre and 4-3-6 for the bloom at

the same water\nute ratio or add more of another type of nute since the Advanced line is

so extensive.

To be honest I've never measured EC in soil so I don't know what to tell you. EC has to do with the conductivity of the soil which changes over time as unused salts from fertalizers build up. This can be avoided in soil by using a feeding routine where every third feeding is just water.

All I measure in soil is the ph of what I put in. For soil the ph should be around 6.3 to 6.8.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

or better yet an ammended soil which only needs water

 

[shakeyatl]

To be honest I've never measured EC in soil so I don't know what to tell you. EC has to do with the conductivity of the soil which changes over time as unused salts from fertalizers build up. This can be avoided in soil by using a feeding routine where every third feeding is just water.

All I measure in soil is the ph of what I put in. For soil the ph should be around 6.3 to 6.8.

I was talking of the ec of my watering solution

 

[shakeyatl]

or better yet an ammended soil which only needs water

yeah next time around I plan on mixing my own soils.

If I understand correctly, If amended properly you can make it
halfway through flowering without having to add much nutes at all.

I was at the hydro shop yesterday, the guy was trying to sell me some guano to spread on the top of my soil but at $45 for a really small bag (couldn't have weighted more than 10 ounces) I had to pass. Online everything is so much cheaper.

hanna ph guage was like 120 found the same one at amazon for like 65 same model (hi98127)

Thanks man

here are some pics from a couple weeks ago just to share

 

[HempKat]

I was talking of the ec of my watering solution

I know, that's what I'm talking about too, when I say "in soil" I mean it as in when using soil as opposed to hydro or a soilless medium like coco. In hydro you want the ph to be around 5.5 I believe. So what I'm saying is it's going to be different depending on the medium but I've never measured EC. I don't actually measure the soil literally but rather what goes in or comes out. From everything I've heard those meters you stick in soil to measure things aren't terribly reliable except for maybe really expensive ones that most folks can't afford. I have a hanna ph checker I got online for around $40 that has been very reliable but it's for measuring solutions. As I understand it as long as you're not pushing the envelope and you give the plants just water now and then to avoid build ups, then EC in soil should not be an issue.