Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[Ben Tokin]

Only the election results will prove one way or the other. From past experience in mid-term elections, the older voters prevail. Younger voters show much less interest. I would, however, enjoy seeing the "yes" win.

 

[someotherguy]

these media morons rule their entire lives according to what some poll says and if you look around you can find a poll to support whatever position you want.

btw, as an interesting aside i find it encouraging to know that New York State was the first state in America to legalize alcohol during prohibition despite the Federal law and it wasn't until 10 years later that alcohol prohibition was actually repealed at the federal level.

peace, and stay safe, it ain't legal YET !!!

SOG


Vote YES on Prop 19 !!!

 

[I.M. Boggled]

Q

 

[ibjamming]

The media is manipulating you...don't fall for it. Statistics show that MANY people DO change their vote based on "what everyone else is voting". The media got Obama elected. They'll make or break 19 too.

 

[vta]

David Bearman, M.D., is a member of theAmerican Academy of Cannabinoid Medicineand was medical director for 14 years at the Santa Barbara Regional Health Authority, now called CenCal Health, in Goleta. He’s been practicing for 42 years, currently performs pain management and thinks marijuana, like any pharmaceutical drug, should be considered a therapeutic option.

Bearman says he seethes when he thinks about the harm caused by absurd marijuana laws and attitudes, specifically to the rights promised in the Constitution. He thinks Proposition 19 would solve many ills.

“Should 19 prevail in lawsuits that are sure to follow, we’ll have a new day, because drug laws have been used in a policy of fear. Implementation of 19 will pull back the curtains on the fearmongers who use fear as a mechanism to infringe on our constitutional rights. Because of a politics of fear, we have ceded our constitutional rights and privileges to the police. People are afraid. My favorite bumper sticker reads, ‘I love my country. It’s my government I fear.’

“While Proposition 19 is not perfect, people should vote for it because enough is enough in terms of crumbling the Constitution and putting people in jail for something that’s innocuous.Thomas Jefferson said, ‘If people let government decide which food and medicine to take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls of those who live under tyranny.’ ”

 

[vta]

This is long...but what the heck
CW: = Cannabis Warrior


Response from a Cannybus manager and my response to themPosted
by Mickey Martin on October 22nd, 2010

I received this message in the blog comment section, but I felt it was relevant enough to post on the front page, as it clearly shows the delusions and irresponsible behaviors of this organization and their clueless leader, Mario Abad. So sit back, here is a cool dose of failed BULLSHITTER redemption, and NO, I will not be printing a retraction any time soon, as there is no real evidence here that disproves any of my previous claims. I almost did not run this because Mario has threatened to sue me for slander (obviously no clue that this would be considered libel), but I cannot resist a good debate, and well, since your “Marketing Manager” decided to put it out there, let’s take a closer look at these claims…

Hello, my name is Ramsey and I’m the marketing manager for The Canny Bus.

CW: So here we are, Why does an organization with less that 10 members need a “Marketing Manager,” Ramsey. You kind of shoot yourself on the foot. See….if you have less than 10 patients you serve it does not make sense to have a manager at all, unless those 10 people buy a pound retail every week or something. You are BULLSHITTING just on the face of the way your organization is structured. It would seem and organization serving 10 people would not need 3-4 employees, but whatever you say….I used to sell cannabis in my youth and had more than 10 people that came to my mom’s garage…….

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a current patient of The Canny Bus and I have offered my expertise to the collective over the last month to help establish its reputation in the corporate community.

CW: So you have only been the “Marketing Manager” for a month now. Good. It is still not too late to move away from a sinking ship before you are too far entrenched. I say find a new gig….

To give you a brief background about myself, I am 23 years old, [tatted up], a recent SFSU grad, and I also happen to be a DIE HARD supporter of YES on proposition 19 (I’ll get back to that later).

CW:You are an innocent kid, so I will do my best take that into consideration in my critique of your claims. Good to know you support 19. Too bad the leader of your great organization does not listen to the advice of his 23-year-old marketing manager.

I am posting this comment on your blog for 2 reasons: first, to apologize on behalf of The Canny Bus for further escalating the online drama; it was unprofessional and disrespectful, and there is no excuse for us at The Canny Bus to have reacted the way we did at the time.

CW:Apology not accepted. Do me a favor. 1) Have Mario apologize for his BULLSHIT and 2) Don’t apologize to me. Apologize to the people you have mislead with your lies and rhetoric. I do not need an apology. The people you have convinced to vote against their best interest may want to hear from you after their access diminishes and they are continually treated like second-class citizens.

Secondly, I would like to refute the claims you made about our collective and [hopefully] convince you, Russ, and your readers that we are indeed a small, non-profit collective that is not interested in price gouging.

CW:No one accused you of “price gouging.” We clearly repeated your prices and allowed the reader to see that your prices were possibly a reason that you were motivated to promote prohibition. See, making $6-7,000 per pound is a pretty good motivator. The booze runners that made the same 700% mark up fought ending prohibition, too. It is natural to want to protect your interests, although when people go to jail and lose their stuff to do so, it is BAD KARMA.

First, the reason for the initial blog post is our blog that promotes Mr. Abad’s strong opposition to proposition 19. As I mentioned previously, I am also a major supporter of prop 19, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t legitimate reasons why some people would be opposed to the measure.

CW: Legitimate reasons do not include LIES and HALF-TRUTHS. Sorry.

Even if one does not agree with these criticisms—which I also do not—I find that hearing the other side’s position has been helpful to strengthening my PRO arguments and also to question whether the vague wording in some sections could cause more harm than good. While it is certainly your right and obligation as the Cannabis Warrior to call out the bullshit as you see it, I can assure you that these blog articles were written as opinion pieces and not as intentional fear mongering or the spreading of lies. I personally don’t share the same view of the proposition as Mario, but I fully support his right to use his blog to share his concerns with the cannabis community.

CW: You can have your own opinions. Mario Abad plays loose with the facts. He is not “questioning the vague wording,” as you assert. He is misleading his readers with OUTRIGHT LIES and FALSE INTERPRETATIONS which he refuses to back down from even when clearly proven wrong. The fact that he is putting forth the whole tax on a person’s personal garden lies that are verifiable facts and the numerous other BULLSHIT “opinions,” if that is what you want to call them, are misleading and are far from truthful in any manner. An opinion is “I think 19 will cause a backlash and limit my access to medicine.” Saying that a city is going to tax you $15,000 for your personal garden, when clearly the initiative only affords tax rights to COMMERCIAL applications is a LIE, and thus BULLSHIT. Stating that, ““only a small group of big-time grow operations in Oakland (the people who wrote Prop. 19) will be allowed to grow and sell their cannabis,” is an outright LIE. Sying, “if you are a medical marijuana patient under 21, you will simply be prohibited from using medical cannabis altogether,” is a LIE. These are not “opinions.” These are lies meant to mislead people into voting against their best interest. What part of that do you not get? You cannot have your own facts….

Now, the claims against The Canny Bus itself: black market prices, lying about how many members we have, lying about what vehicle we use to deliver the medicine in (seriously?), and overcharging our patients because of a $30,000 piece of machinery that we allegedly own. You stated that if we can disprove just one thing you said about our collective, you would redact your blog posts about The Canny Bus and issue an apology; I am hoping to earn that from you.

CW:Black market prices. Check. Membership. Check. Vehicle. Check. UV Wand. Check. Let us review your claims. I would not hold your breath on the apology because your arguments are all based in fallacious thinking.

To start off with the “black market” prices, I would argue that most any dispensaries gram prices are nearly “black market” prices. If you check our website again, you’ll see that we changed the default price to reflect eighths instead. Some of our medicine is as low as $35, but we also have many options available for $40, $45, and $50 (occasionally $55), which should be either typical of a dispensary or slightly less expensive. We are actually in the process of re-structuring our pricing system.

CW: Why the need to change your pricing unless you agree that the criticisms are valid? You say $35-40-45-50-55…wow you almost have a price point for each of your less than 10 members. LOL. The fact that it is “typical of a dispensary” is irrelevant. Prices are inflated at dispensaries because there is still a black market mentality and providers risk their freedom to provide medicine. That equals inflated prices. End of story. Not to mention you have no facility overhead, service staff, security staff, or licensing fees that dispensaries incur. So why have typical dispensary prices when your overhead is much lower? Oh yeah. Because that is what the Gray Market will bear, so that is what you charge. When you restructure, consider your lack of overhead and regulatory fees in the process.

As for the size of our collective, it’s completely true that we have less than 10 patients. Obviously we would like to expand to accommodate more patients as soon as possible, but limited funds are making it difficult to purchase the $8,000 license from the city of San Francisco as of right now.

CW: So your blog says now, “We are a medical marijuana collective of about 10 members.” About. less than, around…10 members. So I will take your word on this one if you say so. Let me spell it out. An organization that has been in business for 6 months, has dawned the cover of the Wall Street Journal for their wanting to trademark the organization, has an expansive retail online menu with more products than members, has a Marketing Manager, and boasts about their great success is either a COMPLETE FAILURE or a BULLSHITTER. If you claim you only have 10 patients then explain this to me. In a blog posted by Mario he states:

“Since we made our first delivery on 4/20, we’ve started up a a Facebook fan page which now was over 1300 fans: http://bit.ly/9T0HKy (please friend us!) And we’ve also started a Twitter account, which now boasts 3600 followers, to keep our collective members and fans up to date on the most late-breaking Canny Bus news: http://twitter.com/thecannybus (please follow us!) Our delivery footprint has grown along with the size of our collective and we now regularly deliver to San Jose, San Francisco, Marin Country, Livermore, Petaluma, Brentwood, Dublin, San Ramon, Walnut Creek, Concord and many more. We’ve also worked out agreements with courier agents to deliver medicine to patients living outside our large delivery coverage area to make sure our high quality cannabis and quality care-giving is available to anyone in need.”

CW:You do realize that you have listed 10 different places (and more) you “regularly deliver to,” This would lead people to believe that your operation is more expansive than you would have us believe. You have gained less that 2 members a month since your existence? Really. I know a person who opened a delivery service September 1st, has done zero advertising, and already has well over 10 members. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your claims are true, to which I will include you are horrible at running a successful organization. Your site also boasts:

Our collective has quickly grown to become the Bay Area’s premiere medical cannabis delivery service,

CW:I think you can see how it is YOUR OWN HYPERBOLE that would lead one to assume the collective was more successful and had more members than you state you do. Sorry. That is the facts. You wrote it. Not me. If you say you have “less than 10 members” then I suppose I will take your word for it, but the fact is you are BULLSHITTING one way or another.

Your site also states:

“We offer our own, Bonded Drivers in the Bay Area and overnight service to your home or office by a discreet medical courier.”

CW:Bonded drivers, couriers, marketing managers, oh my. That is a lot of people to serve 10 lowly patients. And assuming that all of the staff are patients as required by law and members, then does this mean you really serve less than 7 people, as the staff alone (even if there is just you and Mario) would only be 7 others if you were “less than 10″ as you put forth. It just seems like a stretch….

Having a VW bus on our logo without us owning that vehicle does not make us liars, and I know you know how silly a notion that is. Trix cereal has a rabbit on the box, but they don’t put rabbits in their cereal. That doesn’t make them liars. Winston-Salem doesn’t grind up Camels for their cigarettes (I’m sure there are theories though).

CW: No one ever said that not owning that vehicle makes you a liar. I said it was a half-truth, as Mario has a picture of a green VW bus on his FB page. Comparing your usage of imagery of a VW Bus crossing the Golden Gate Bridge to the Trix rabbit and Joe Camel may be the most fallacious IRRELEVANT CONCLUSION you have put forth. The Trix rabbit is seen eating cereal and is a spokesperson” of sorts to lure kids into wanting their product. Their imagery does not assume that they are made by a rabbit” or in the case of Cannybus, are a SF local as the GG Bridge puts forth. Do you think that if I put a picture of the Eiffel Tower in my logo people would assume I was from France or dealt with French interests somehow? Joe Camel is a mockery of advertising gone wrong. The fact that you would choose two of the most unhealthy products on the planet, and some of the most questionable marketing practices on Earth to add validity to your argument makes me question your role as a “Marketing Manager.” Is that what they are teaching you kids in school these days?

If you cannot admit that having a picture of the VW Bus on the Golden Gate COUPLED WITH your choosing to be listed in San Francisco rather than your home base which is, according to Mario, an “hour and a half outside of SF” misleads potential members into believing that your organization IS based in SF, then your marketing management skills are only working on yourself and are not based in reality. See, advertising is meant to send a message to potential clients, and the message you guys are sending is that you are a legitimate service based in SF when you admittedly ARE NOT. That is the “half-truth” I wrote about.

Lastly, I am not sure where you came up with that industrial UV sterilization machine with the astronomical $30,000 price tag, but we use a handheld UV gardening wand that costs under $150 (some are as inexpensive as $45). You can buy them at Wal-Mart or Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I will provide not 1, but 4 separate links for proof:

Your site states:

* Eliminates up to 99.99% of viruses such as H1N1 and MRSA bacteria
* Our ultraviolet light technology eliminates 99.9% of all traces of molds, bacteria without compromising the medication in any way.

CW: THIS IS A LIE!!!!!!!!!! End of story. Your $45 wand does not pemnetrate the medicine, which is where MOST of your “molds and bacteria” form. You are LYING to people by telling them that your Wal-Mart technology is removing these dangers. I have half a mind to have a person join your collective, purchase medicine, and sue your ass when I have it tested for molds and bacteria. There is a reason that major food producers do not just have a $45 wand from Wal-Mart to make these claims about their products. It is NOT VALID. YOU are MISLEADING people. This technology is not approved for the application you are claiming to use it for, therefore you are BULLSHITTING people. Did you even read the description of the product you linked to below? Here it is:

“The Germ Guardian UV-C light wand harnesses the power of naturally occurring UV-C light technology making it a safe way to kill germs on surfaces without the use of chemicals. UV-C light is the same technology hospitals use to sanitize. Simply pass the light wand over surfaces to kill 99% of germs such as salmonella and staph within a minute of exposure. Also destroys bacteria and mold.Use anywhere you want to destroy germs on surfaces and not use chemicals. Use on your computer keyboard, on bedding, in the bathroom, on kitchen counters or sink, also can be used on personal items. You can even use it to sanitize the bottom of your shoes!Kills 99.9% of targeted airborne germs including:Influenza-AStaphylococcusStreptococcusTuberculosis”

It is a GERM REMOVER used for keyboards and SURFACES. It does not say use with food or other ingestible products. It does not even say it is usable on products intended for human consumption. It is for kitchen sinks and keyboards and at best is a SHAM product catering to the germaphobe crowd. It is not licensed technology for removing 99% of molds and bacterials from cannabis medicines, or any natural substance. Even if you wave it over ALL surfaces of the medicne you provide, it could NEVER eliminate the 99% of things that you claim it does because it will never penetrate the surface. The flowering complex clusters of the cannabis plant generally have more issues in the core of the bud rather than the surface. Did you even think about this before making your claims or did you just write what was on the box of you MAGIC WAND and apply it to cannabis, even though this is not an appropriate application? BULLSHIT at its finest….

1. http://www.amazon.com/Germ-Guardian-UV-2dC-Sanitizing-Wand/dp/B001R1ZLOG
2. http://www.amazon.com/Verilux-CleanWave-Sanitizing-Light-Wand/dp/B001PBLL9W
3. http://www.amazon.com/Purelight-UV-Light-Hand-Wand/dp/B000RMXFZS
4. http://www.gaiam.com/product/cleanw...8SPRTAPEMACS&GCID=C18376x014&keyword=’06-0704
So to conclude, The Canny Bus is an affordable non-profit collective of less than 10 patients with affordable medicine prices (even free medicine for some who are unable to afford it), that uses a $150 handheld UV wand to sterilize its cannabis, and acknowledges behaving in an unprofessional demeanor in initial response to your blog post.

Behaving in an unprofessional demeanor is the least of your worries. Your “fearless leader,” Mario Abad, and his willingness to play loose with the facts to gain recognition and preserve his business is far from unprofessional. It is dishonest and unsavory business practices. You continue to put forth conflicting claims and I can see by your boss’s latest blog post that he does not “acknowledge” anything. He is still whining that people are picking on him for his opposition, when the truth is we are picking on him because he is a BULLSHITTER and a LIAR. Sue me for slander if you want. Threaten to sue the entire City of San Francisco if you want. The facts are facts. You are operating as if you are from SF, when you clearly are not. You are putting forth false claims that your medicine is treated to remove 99.9% of dangerous contaminants when they DO NOT. You are putting forth messaging and imagery that leads people to believe you are a “successful and premiere” delivery service, when your claims of less than 10 people joining a service after 6 months would lead me to believe you are not successful or premiere as you state. And you think this is about whether or not you drive a VW bus? I just thought it was odd that Mario would put a picture of a real bus on his FB profile, as if it were real. That is the mixed messaging you put out. Not me. Unprofessional is one thing. Downright dishonest is another.

While Mario Abad opposes proposition 19 because it may threaten the rights of medical patients, and the official position of The Canny Bus is against proposition 19, I am also a part of The Canny Bus and I fully support prop 19 as well as the right for opponents of it to state their criticisms of it. As I told Mario when I first started working for him, “I don’t care what your political stance is, you’ve got the best weed I’ve had in the city and I want people to know it.”

Mario can oppose whatever he wants based on whatever speculative deductive reasoning he comes to to make that decision. But it is NOT OKAY to lie about how the initiative is written and mislead people based on regurgitated nonsense and myths put forth by other liars. It is great that you have maintained a sense of reality in your own life, but you are the organization you represent, like it or not. Just your attempt to defend your leader’s BULLSHIT shows that you have drank the Kool-Aid regardless of your stance on 19. The fact is that if you do not want the criticisms of your organization then quit publicly making wild claims and accusations. When you say, “I don’t care what your political stance is, you’ve got the best weed I’ve had in the city and I want people to know it,” did you mean SF in referring to “the city?” And there we go again. There are a number of people who have GREAT cannabis in “THE CITY” that operate legally and as an active member of the community in THE CITY. If you want to remain on the bandwagon and ride the bus all the way to failure then knock yourself out. The fact is that Mario has made himself a laughing stock of the industry, as people see through his weak claims and false prophecies for what they are- BULLSHIT. You seem like a nice enough person with a decent head on your shoulders. Hopefully you will use your talent and energy to make a real organization that does not depend on sensational rhetoric a success one day. If you want to find a real job with a REAL cannabis organization that does not need to fudge it to not be successful, let me know. I will be glad to point you in the right direction. Right now you are aligned with the biggest joke going in the industry. Have fun, kid….

 

[WasntMe]

my prohibition quote of the day:

Instead of giving money to found colleges to promote learning, why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as good as the Prohibition one did, why, in five years we would have the smartest race of people on earth.
Will Rogers

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

my prohibition quote of the day:

Instead of giving money to found colleges to promote learning, why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as good as the Prohibition one did, why, in five years we would have the smartest race of people on earth.
Will Rogers

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHA now THAT'S fucking funny!!!!!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

how do you juxtapose your stated disdain for cowardice with the incessant cowardly sniveling by the prohibitionist crowd?

It was you who labeled me a prohibitionist.

I'm simply stressing the blind bravery bit:

Anger or cowardice never lead to a reasonable end... I'd like to see neither.

An unwavering passion or blind bravery both lead to the same unreasonable end.

Think about it.

I think I've been pretty reasonable. I don't like it when I'm mislabeled. I'd feel a little bit better if you realized I'm not against the idea at all.

Damn.

 

[dagnabit]

It was you who labeled me a prohibitionist.

I'm simply stressing the blind bravery bit:



I think I've been pretty reasonable. I don't like it when I'm mislabeled. I'd feel a little bit better if you realized I'm not against the idea at all.

Damn.

ohhh sorry i didnt realize you had come around to the yes side..

 

[Dkgrower]

I just saw on Aljazeera that a poll showed a No to prop 19.

Comming from Denmark we are a lot off pepol hoping fore a yes, it would send a world wide message to decriminilize cannabis on this plante

We (The Danish Hashish Movment) just interviewed alot off danish political pepol on the right side and asked them if it became a Yes in California if it ditten move on there position on cannabis and many said Yes.

I really think that prop 19 even tho is only deals with cali it has big infulence on politicians and pepol view on cannabis world wide

I really hope the pepol off california vote yes to prop 19

 

[Ben Tokin]

It all comes down to the question of balance. Do you want to continue the expensive prohibition, or, do you want less Gestapo interference in your life?

Prohibition benefits the criminals, causes distrust of government and law enforcement, and it destroys human lives. Allowing the normal and natural state of choice and appreciation of a healthy and beneficial plant is simply that.

Removing the artificial and destructive shackles of prohibition will free humanity from all of the evil forces that prohibition has created.

We all need to unite and speak in one voice against the hate, the murders, the false imprisonments, the lies, the greed, and the complete lack of compassion and understanding that prohibition advocates continue to support.

Help bring some sanity and love back to the world. Let's all work to end prohibition!

 

[ddrew]

I think it's going to pass.
I remember when Jesse Ventura was elected governor, all the polls said he didn't have chance, but traditional polls missed a lot of people who don't normally vote in force, or respond to polls, but came out special for Jesse and swept him in.
I think the same thing will happen with 19, a lot of people who normally wouldn't vote, and aren't taken into account by the polls, will come out just for 19, and squeak it by, no landslide, but better then what the polls are saying IMO.

 

[TruthOrLie]

I saw some statistics based on Dems, Reps, Wealthy, Poor, Middle Class... all groups were no less than 2/3 in favor of medical MJ across the country (the smallest group pro-MMJ was still 60% for!).

Recreational MJ was not polled.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

ohhh sorry i didnt realize you had come around to the yes side..

I cast my vote in the poll for "What is Prop 19?"

I think most of my involvement in this thread is due to my suprise that not many voted for the "Yes but wish they were voting on a better bill".

I can't say that I'll walk away from this thread uninformed anymore either.

 

[dagnabit]

I cast my vote in the poll for "What is Prop 19?"

here ya go.

http://yeson19.com/node/6

i thought you knew..

prop 19 is a ballot initiative to legalize recreational cannabis cultivation,processing,possession,use and even sales!!!!!

its an amazing thing maybe you should take more notice than "what is prop 19" after all i dont believe "what is prop 19" will be an option on the official ballot will it?

 

[Feb2006er]

While we're at it remember-
Yes on 21 if you like the parks
Yes on 22 don't let them dip into your local funds(transportation, public safety, etc)
No on 23 global warming is real and this will negatively effect you if repealed
Yes on 24 because education needs it

 

[Chamba]

Market prices after Prop 19 passes

Market prices after Prop 19 passes

One thing is for sure, demand will skyrocket overnight when and if Proposition 19 passes. and that's not the least of it, this will be the beginning of the end of the world's war on cannabis..us growers and smokers have never been so close to actually being free from persecution.

With the massive demand will come higher prices. Cash croppers in Cali, this is your gold rush!.No risk of jail and a huge demand. I reckon you've got 2 ~ 3 years before the rest of the new growers start growing, get it right and flood the market with cheap kilos. By that time you will have already made your money and got out, grow premium AAA and sell direct to those who will pay top dollar for the best or have scaled up your operation into acres or warehouses.

Any cash cropper who votes against 19 is shooting him or herself in the foot.

 

[ibjamming]

Any cash cropper who votes against 19 is shooting him or herself in the foot.

ANYONE who vote against it is shooting themselves in the foot!

Imagine that...LEGAL...no more worrying...except for rippers...watch out for rippers...

 

[mxrider4]

Its funny how i got flamed on here for being ignorant for saying that this thing would tilt towards the "no" vote come election time. That is what is happening now in all the poll. wow imagine that.
I seriously hate some people on here that think just becuz they have thousands of post that somehow they are smarter than anyone else.
I also posted on here a couple days ago and it was removed so I guess all u free weed yuppies are not for free speech. lol.

and i know how to spell because properly instead of becuz , since thats one of the reasons you dumbfucks said I was to stupid to be right about people always leaning towards the no vote on hot button issues. Not this year stoners. sorry