Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[dagnabit]

After a Rancho Cordova woman complained last year about the skunky smell of pot being grown by a medical marijuana-using neighbor, one City Council member suggested a ban on residential pot cultivation.

That proposal went nowhere. But now Rancho Cordova is asking voters to make the city the first in California to approve a tax on home-grown pot for personal use.

Advocates for medical marijuana and a state initiative to legalize pot for recreational use say the proposed tax is so prohibitive that virtually no one could afford to grow marijuana in the Sacramento County city.

The city's Personal Cannabis Cultivation Tax measure on the Nov. 2 ballot would impose an annual tax of $600 per square foot on indoor marijuana cultivation of up to and including 25 square feet, and a $900-per-square-foot tax for anything larger.

The full story is here....http://www.sacbee.com/2010/08/29/2990666/california-town-wants-to-tax-marijuana.html

This is why I have doubts about my decision to vote yes on 19. I'm pretty darn sure most of the state will end up just like this. It already has in many cities and counties through-out California. Pot smokers, medical or recommended...are not wanted here legal or not. This is the new way, tax cannabis and regulate it into extinction.

you do know that RC proposal reads "whether 19 passes or not"

and specifically mentions MEDICAL as well..

the point is RANCHO CORDOVA'S PROPOSAL HAS ZERO TO DO WITH 19

 

[subrob]

mrgrowem...that is just scary as hell! those fukn pricks....
---even w people pulling shit like that, i still think(hope) that getting our foot in the door now rather than later is the way to go....sooner change starts, the sooner change advances...god, it just makes me sick how some people view cannabis....

 

[mr noodles]

if they vote no watch the dea bust all over the place ...why ?

a no will means a green light for police and a clear mandate, dont come and cry that it was near the win.....it wont work

no mean cannabis is illegal and law will be enforced .

if you miss that shot for greed ...we are all dead all over the world..if california say no to marijuana and commercial op will get busted like there is no tomorrow

because a referendum that say population dont mj legal is exactly what dumb cops are dreaming aka a moral mandate from the society ...

 

[Mrgrowem]

dagnabit,

Your right. I'm just saying.....This idea of taxing cannabis has lit a fire and these cities and counties are running like hell to keep it burning even BEFORE the vote has taken place. It lets us know just what to expect. Whether or not we pass 19 this RC stuff will stop most people cold in their tracks, because it will infect the rest of the conservatives in the counties and cities of this state, just like the ordinances they already slap on us. Once they get the fever of tax money, it all comes to an end for the little guys. This reminds me of the tax placed by the governments many years ago to prevent the sale of cannabis. I will, however, still vote a yes to prop 19, but I do understand a little better why some of the opposition feels like they do.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

dagnabit,

Your right. I'm just saying.....This idea of taxing cannabis has lit a fire and these cities and counties are running like hell to keep it burning even BEFORE the vote has taken place. It lets us know just what to expect. Whether or not we pass 19 this RC stuff will stop most people cold in their tracks, because it will infect the rest of the conservatives in the counties and cities of this state, just like the ordinances they already slap on us. Once they get the fever of tax money, it all comes to an end for the little guys. This reminds me of the tax placed by the governments many years ago to prevent the sale of cannabis. I will, however, still vote a yes to prop 19, but I do understand a little better why some of the opposition feels like they do.

so why is RC the only town out of 489 that has proposed these ludacris taxes if this will be the norm. RC will not be the norm. I don't believe voters would pass such an asinine tax, but if they do they will be the exception to the norm, not vice versa

 

[215forLife]

Prop 19 is going to need 2/3rd's of the people to vote it in because it technically is a local taxation measure.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 13A [TAX LIMITATION]
Section 3. From and after the effective date of this article, any
changes in state taxes enacted for the purpose of increasing revenues
collected pursuant thereto whether by increased rates or changes in
methods of computation must be imposed by an Act passed by not less
than two-thirds of all members elected to each of the two houses of
the Legislature, except that no new ad valorem taxes on real
property, or sales or transaction taxes on the sales of real property
may be imposed.


ARTICLE 13C (VOTER APPROVAL FOR LOCAL TAX LEVIES)

(d) No local government may impose, extend, or increase any
special tax unless approved by a two-thirds vote. A special tax shall not be deemed
to have been increased if it is imposed at a rate not higher than
the maximum rate so approved.

 

[215forLife]

Lol prop 19 is unconsitutional! opps!

 

[mullray]

From Frozenguy "Didn't notice those on the fence about it, realizing how crappy the bill is but are pressured to vote yes. Other then that, solid No's are winning the poll against solid yes."

Love the way you twist and turn bro but the shit is this: More people are voting yes full stop. Life aint balck and white and the greys have it. Now for another reality check.... If growers are voting yes then imagine what smokers of the most widely used "illicit" recreational drug will vote like in order to ensure they are no longer criminalized, busted, fined and treated like criminals. Black and White (seeing how as you like it this way). Vote no for Prop 19 and you are voting for prohibition of a drug I bet you whine on about as "it should be legalized" when it suits you. Well D-Day is here my friend. Time to legalize regardless of the flaws in the Bill. These can be rectified later under a legal framework.

What I'm happy to note here is those of us that have lived in the scene for more than 10 years and those of us who actually give a shit about others and those of us who really care about the plant beyond the short term profits are voting YES! I'm 45 FrozenGuy - how old are you?

 

[mullray]

I'm happy to see that more Californians then not are going to vote no (according to this poll). Its what I thought would happen. A lot of the people supporting prop 19 dont even live in the state.

Truthfully, California isn't ready for all this tax revenue. They dont even know how to spend their current revenue. Reguardless, I hope this poll is a representation of what we'll see in November. Hopefully we vote it off the ballot..

With that said, I'm native born California, I haven't done a commercial grow in several years and dont plan on it; but if I did, I would look forward to legalization at any degree (almost) because that means $$$$$$$.

And I'll be damned if anyone should attempt to claim how much of any plant I can grow in my house.

I have never read such a load of shit in my life. Do us a favour and stop wasting space.

"And I'll be damned if anyone should attempt to claim how much of any plant I can grow in my house."

Right now that'd be zero moron!

 

[dagnabit]

Prop 19 is going to need 2/3rd's of the people to vote it in because it technically is a local taxation measure.

if you spent more time trying to learn and less time hiding behind trees......

you might understand that 19 does not create ANY new taxes!

"but dagnabit its called the TAX cannabis.... and it says taxes 100 times!"
yes but technically (what is most important when dealing with courts and constitutional challenges) it does NOT create the tax like amiano's prop did with the $50.00 flat rate.

no it leaves the creation of the new tax up to the municipalities. because it leaves them the option to not tax at all,it would not be considered a new tax created by this bill either.

do you think before you post your ever increasingly weak bullshit?
who came up with that lameness for you? tell the truth who did you get that "nugget" of constitutional wisdom from?

 

[Thundurkel]

If your too ignorant to read the proposal and take your voting advice from a paid advertisement in a third rate marijuana magazine, you shouldnt be allowed to vote in the first place.

Hahahaha it would be you... I actually have read the bill and I'm totally against it since it's just not right, all you guys and gals are so excited to hear about legalization you are willing to take whatever they throw at you just to get it started which is kinda ignorant IMO... We have waited how long? Lost how many friends to prison? But oh fuck those folks and all that time fighting we have to set a example for the country lol Wait for the right bill VOTE NO ON 19!

 

[dagnabit]

Hahahaha it would be you... I actually have read the bill and I'm totally against it since it's just not right, all you guys and gals are so excited to hear about legalization you are willing to take whatever they throw at you just to get it started which is kinda ignorant IMO... We have waited how long? Lost how many friends to prison? But oh fuck those folks and all that time fighting we have to set a example for the country lol Wait for the right bill VOTE NO ON 19!

where is the "right bill"?
what does it say?
who is paying to get it on the ballot?
who is paying for the marketing?

 

[dagnabit]

also..

why would the passage of 19 prevent the imaginary prop from passing subsequently?


would it not stand to reason once the masses see the entire state is not struck down by god because we allow adults to smoke for fun they would be much more likely to pass your tax free, no limits free for all...
but the idea of completely unregulated recreational marijuana is never gonna happen as long as there is a government.
it is a powerful M.A.M.A. substance.

 

[Thundurkel]

This Ranch Cordova shit is ridiculous they act like just cuz they have Gold River in their county that they are nice and better than the surrounding areas. I grew up in RC and nobody out there can afford to pay taxes like that!!! WTF do they think EVERYBODY is packing 16 plants per sq ft? Simply ridiculous but this is the type of shit we face and I know it's not a part of this bill but leaving it up to county's to decide how they want to deal with it this is what you can expect to see.. Greedy politicians not compassionate co ops is what I see

 

[dagnabit]

This Ranch Cordova shit is ridiculous they act like just cuz they have Gold River in their county that they are nice and better than the surrounding areas. I grew up in RC and nobody out there can afford to pay taxes like that!!! WTF do they think EVERYBODY is packing 16 plants per sq ft? Simply ridiculous but this is the type of shit we face and I know it's not a part of this bill but leaving it up to county's to decide how they want to deal with it this is what you can expect to see.. Greedy politicians not compassionate co ops is what I see

you prefer the state being in charge?

do you realize how much more difficult it is to effect change at a state level?

county taxes in smaller counties pass by ONE VOTE at times!!!!!
in larger counties?
a disorganized group of slackers can overwhelm ANY vote if they just get off the couch at a local level!!!
you know this already though dont you. you know if 500 people showed up at the next RC council meeting WITH VALID VOTER CARDS IN HAND these blowhards would shrink.

but noooooo we dont want pot regulation where we could actually control it ourselves...we want to abdicate that control to the state legislature?!?!?!?

are you fucking serious?

 

[dagnabit]

where is the "right bill"?
what does it say?
who is paying to get it on the ballot?
who is paying for the marketing?
why would the passage of 19 prevent the imaginary prop from passing subsequently?

care to answer?

 

[Ironeek]

In my opinion despite its obvious flaws and possibly even worrying consequences, It’s a YES from me. It all starts from a seed! Legalization has to state somewhere. Despite the concerns this has massive international consequences and people on both sides of the debate will use the end result of prop 19 as ammunition to aid their cause.

 

[Hydrosun]

we know it will allow us to grow in our own homes....

this is interesting line to follow...

what can we say for certain? positive and negative....

1 positive is it makes a minimum 25'² an unalienable right for every Californian.

1 negative is the 25'² is a bit small.

You do understand that unalienable rights are those you are born with and can never be taken away. You may have your rights violated or oppressed, but unalienable rights are HUMAN RIGHTS not regulations determined by a majority.

Since the regulations of prop 19 may be modified by future legislatures or public vote there is NOTHING final about this bill.

You thought the current meaning of "Progressive" was funny, and your misuse of unalienable gave me a good laugh

 

[215forLife]

if you spent more time trying to learn and less time hiding behind trees......

Right I'm the one hiding? That is why I openly declared income from being a "pharmaceutical and medicine mfg." with a specific product of "medicinal cannabis" to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

you might understand that 19 does not create ANY new taxes!

It doesn't create any new taxes? What the fuck are you smoking? I want some of that shit.

Section 1: Name

This Act shall be known as the “Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010.”

Hrmmm the title says tax

Section 2: Findings, Intent and Purposes

6. There is an estimated $15 billion in illegal cannabis transactions in California each year. Taxing and regulating cannabis, like we do with alcohol and cigarettes, will generate billions of dollars in annual revenues for California to fund what matters most to Californians: jobs, health care, schools and libraries, roads, and more.

The Intent and purposes clearly state its for TAXES.

B. Purposes

9. Tax and regulate cannabis to generate billions of dollars for our state and local governments to fund what matters most: jobs, healthcare, schools and libraries, parks, roads, transportation, and more.

Section 11301


(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;

Wow prop 19 already says they can punish us for not paying.......

TAXES...

Section 11301


(j) appropriate controls to restrict public displays, or public consumption of cannabis;
(k) appropriate taxes or fees pursuant to section 11302;

Do I see the word TAXES again in prop 19????
I'm pretty sure that is what it says yet again...

Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees

(a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.

WOW there is a whole section about Collection of Taxes... READ IT!!!

(b) Any licensed premises shall be responsible for paying all federal, state and local taxes, fees, fines, penalties or other financial responsibility imposed on all or similarly situated businesses, facilities or premises, including without limitation income taxes, business taxes, license fees, and property taxes, without regard to or identification of the business or items or services sold.

WOW It says TAXES without LIMITATION...

Section 11304: Effect of Act and Definitions

(d) Definitions
For purposes of this Act:
(b) living and harvested cannabis plants shall be assessed by square footage, not by weight in determining the amounts set forth in section 11300(a);

WOW it's a square foot tax... which equals a property tax for growing crops which is also unconstitutional.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 13 TAXATION
SEC. 3. The following are exempt from property taxation:
(h) Growing crops.

"but dagnabit its called the TAX cannabis.... and it says taxes 100 times!"
yes but technically (what is most important when dealing with courts and constitutional challenges) it does NOT create the tax like amiano's prop did with the $50.00 flat rate.

IT CREATES AND AUTHORIZES UNLIMITED TAXATION...

tell the truth who did you get that "nugget" of constitutional wisdom from?

The California Constitution. When I was a kid we were forced by law to go to school. One of the things they taught us in school was Reading and reading comprehension. Also in school (college) I took a few law classes (Criminal, Constitutional, and Business) in which we were taught how to READ, RESEARCH, and COMPREHEND the LAW.

You can read the California State Constitution for yourself here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/const-toc.html

 

[TruthOrLie]

215forlife... didn't you start your last post with a declaration that you openly and willingly paid TAXES to the government for marijuana?

What's the problem, I don't get it.