Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I think it's pretty sad that there is the absolutist attitude here.

Nobody really bothers to respect any opinion that doesn't match theirs.

There's roundabout high fives whenever someone gets insulted and belittled for having such an opinion.

Hammering ourselves into the ground may not be the best thing we could be doing with our time.

It's not too hard to have at least a baseline level of respect for anyone risking prosecution for this plant.

Why can't we try to look a little better than political candidates?

I think we should try.

Probably because your "opinion" results in thousands of more arrests for marijuana users because you believe 19 isn't good enough and the reasons you oppose it are trivial at best....

 

[kmk420kali]

And the money necessary to buy my IPA!

That is your Significant Other's Job!!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Probably because your "opinion" results in thousands of more arrests for marijuana users because you believe 19 isn't good enough and the reasons you oppose it are trivial at best....

I'm not suprised you are trying to justify it.

I can tell you haven't read the thread.

I think that the attitude I was referring to has blinded your judgement.

I am not looking for a fight.

Never was.

Thousands of people are going to be arrested no matter what the outcome of this single bill will be.

If one of us is responsible for arrested offenders, then we all are.

You need to look outside of your state for a minute to realize what I'm saying.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I'm not suprised you are trying to justify it.

I can tell you haven't read the thread.

I think that the attitude I was referring to has blinded your judgement.

I am not looking for a fight.

Never was.

Thousands of people are going to be arrested no matter what the outcome of this single bill will be.

If one of us is responsible for arrested offenders, then we all are.

You need to look outside of your state for a minute to realize what I'm saying.

By working to pass legalization in my state will hopefully start the ball rolling for legalization in other states, thus resulting in far less arrests for mj users nationwide. Oh, and I've read every page in every prop 19 thread and I believe I was posting about the subject of these threads before you arrived. I have seen the absolutist attitude you speak of, and the reason it's ever present is because the majority of icmaggers realize what a monumental step this is in the path of cannabis legalization, while others like yourself are obssessed with trivial details to oppose such a major event in prohibition history.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Obviously you should vote yes.

I'm curious about many things.... but seeing as how nobody knows the answers there is only one way to find out.

Even if it goes afoul, it's probably the best thing we'll ever get.

I'm going to guess that you missed this.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I'm going to guess that you missed this.

I thought you were patronizing us, as every other post you've made has contradicted that post.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

If you read the thread, you did so with your bias assumed.

Reread it if you have the inclination... it might even enlighten you as to what I was really saying.

 

[Herborizer]

I was surprised by that post, but I took it as Mean Mr.mustard being for the YES side.

 

[Herborizer]

Stanford Editorial Board on Prop 19: http://stanfordreview.org/article/prop-19-about-marijuana-industry-not-use

Prop 19 About Marijuana Industry, Not Use
By Editorial Board — October 11, 2010 — Opinion — Volume XLV, Issue 3

Government exists to protect life, liberty, and property. In its war on marijuana, it is utterly failing, not in spite of its efforts but because of them. Government policies intended to reduce the harm that drug users potentially inflict on society have given rise to violent drug cartels that actually inflict harm on society and countless innocent victims. On this point, libertarians need no further convincing. Conservatives and moderates, however, do see a role for government in policing individual behavior that’s harmful to society, such as drug use. These people in their daily lives are far more likely to witness the harm marijuana causes to people who willingly smoke it, rather than the violence inflicted on innocents by drug gangs. However, the latter harm is far worse, and it’s this that Proposition 19 addresses.

In this way, Prop 19 is not so much about individual marijuana use. While it does legalize adult possession of an ounce or less of marijuana, current California laws punish this with a slim $100 fine, akin to a parking ticket. Marijuana use will almost certainly increase if it’s legalized, but it’s hard to imagine the current penalty deterring too many people from consuming it.

The far more important effect of Prop 19 will be on the marijuana industry. Our current marijuana laws help violent drug cartels maintain artificially high drug prices by eliminating competition in their industry through raids and prosecutions. Whenever one drug distributor is shut down, the others quickly fill the void and grow even richer. Prop 19 would deal a severe (although not fatal) blow to drug cartels. Without their government-granted monopoly status, they would not be able to compete effectively in a semi-legal marijuana industry. Their ability to recruit new members and inflict violence would be greatly diminished. Unfortunately, federal prohibition would still prevent the formation of marijuana brands, financing, and a stable regulatory environment that would be necessary to eliminate marijuana sales as a funding source for unsavory enterprises. That doesn’t mean we should give up on state legalization; it just means our job won’t be finished if Prop 19 passes.

While marijuana use will likely increase if legalized, the story here is not all bad. Marijuana prohibition currently makes more harmful drugs, such as cocaine and heroin, relatively more attractive because they are more potent and less smelly and thus much easier to transport and consume undetected. We can expect many current drug users to choose cheaper, legal marijuana over other, harder drugs. And, just as prohibition-era moonshine gave way to light beer and cigars gave way to smokeless e-cigarettes, there is much reason to believe that after legalization, consumers will prefer less potent marijuana and healthier methods of ingestion (an argument advanced by Milton Friedman).

This editorial board found budgetary arguments for legalization to be unconvincing. California has a spending problem, not a revenue problem, and taxing marijuana would only be a short-term fix. Also, punitively high sin taxes would be little better than prohibition since they would present a large opportunity for tax-evading gangs. Law enforcement personnel would likely be shifted to other drug wars instead of being permanently cut because of their strong unions. And while the prison population would decrease, that alone is a weak economic argument.

Opponents say that Proposition 19 will create legal uncertainty in two ways. First, it will create a patchwork of different regulations, since it lets local governments decide whether to allow the sale of marijuana in their jurisdiction (possession of up to an ounce would be legal everywhere in the state). The political establishment, which thrives on centralization, feigns concern for the “regulatory burden” this will place on localities and growers. To the people of California, however, this is just federalism and local choice, both undeniably good things. The vast majority of California cities can continue to forbid civic blights like marijuana coffee shops and retailers and thus preserve the status quo, but those cities that did permit it would suffice to significantly reduce marijuana’s contribution to drug gangs, which would benefit us all.

Opponents also claim that Prop 19 will prevent employers from disciplining or firing employees who use marijuana, thereby jeopardizing public safety and federal contracts. This interpretation relies on a strained reading of a single sentence in the proposition and is contradicted by clear language elsewhere. Indeed, the California Legislative Analyst’s Office’s interpretation is that “employers would retain existing rights to address consumption of marijuana that impairs an employee’s job performance.” The clear intent is that employers will treat marijuana and alcohol use by employees in the same way. In the end, courts will interpret the text of the proposition within our time-tested legal doctrine, just as they do every other law and proposition. It’s worth noting that in 1996, opponents of Proposition 215 (which legalized medical marijuana) trotted out the same kind of scare tactics, saying that it was a “set of legal loopholes designed to protect drug dealers.” Hindsight shows these fears were blown way out of proportion.

Many Californians support marijuana legalization in principle but think that Prop 19 isn’t the way to achieve it. They’ve no doubt been influenced by the vast majority of California newspaper editorial boards and politicians who say just this. Some point to the unclear language addressed above. Some want more control (and tax authority) vested in Sacramento rather than localities. Some want this handled by the legislature, not by ballot proposition. Though that would be ideal, it is unlikely to happen. If we wait for the political establishment to craft the perfect marijuana legalization bill, we’ll be waiting forever.

As both a moral and tangible matter, the harm inflicted on innocent victims by drug gangs is far worse than the harm that drug users willingly inflict on themselves and the abstract harm that marijuana causes to society. The logical next step after this realization is to let legitimate businesses sprout up to supply Californians’ demand for marijuana, instead of continuing our policy of enforcing violent drug gangs’ monopolies on the marijuana market.

 

[SCF]

I was surprised by that post, but I took it as Mean Mr.mustard being for the YES side.

yeah i was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to get too overly zealous LOL.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Overly zealous?!?!

In this thread of all places?!?!

 

[Greyskull]

Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

So i was just talking about prop 19 with my stepdaughter and her dumbass boyfriend... Theyre in their early 20s.... Anyways...
They are telling me how important 19 (among many other issues...) is and how they are totally gonna vote yes

EXCEPT THEY HAVENT REGISTERED TO VOTE

these are 20 year olds from the bay... Supposedly a hot spot for political activity... And they havent even fucking registered to vote.

I hope 19s fate doesnt rest with the 20 somethings whod rather be playing warcraft or some other lame game.... Im very dissapointed right now in the youngsters.

I need about 11 bong hits gonna go prep some bowls...

 

[SCF]

So i was just talking about prop 19 with my stepdaughter and her dumbass boyfriend... Theyre in their early 20s.... Anyways...
They are telling me how important 19 (among many other issues...) is and how they are totally gonna vote yes

EXCEPT THEY HAVENT REGISTERED TO VOTE

these are 20 year olds from the bay... Supposedly a hot spot for political activity... And they havent even fucking registered to vote.

I hope 19s fate doesnt rest with the 20 somethings whod rather be playing warcraft or some other lame game.... Im very dissapointed right now in the youngsters.

I need about 11 bong hits gonna go prep some bowls...

back in the 60's you could walk right up to a polling place and vote. now they make it so difficult. Its our governments fault! They dont give instructions.....


SCF

 

[mean mr.mustard]

What's even more disgusting is that many of the youth don't register because they don't want to serve on a jury.

 

[Greyskull]

Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

back in the 60's you could walk right up to a polling place and vote. now they make it so difficult. Its our governments fault! They dont give instructions.....


SCF

I know dude but cmon.... Thats so weak sauce. Thats embarrassing lol

Even my stupid lazy ass knows how to set up to vote by mail its not that hard

Were tottally fucked
my stepdaughters 3 cousins (18-19) havent registered either. Unbelievable.

 

[SCF]

I know dude but cmon.... Thats so weak sauce. Thats embarrassing lol

Even my stupid lazy ass knows how to set up to vote by mail its not that hard

Were tottally fucked
my stepdaughters 3 cousins (18-19) havent registered either. Unbelievable.

i know, but so many people have given up on the system, and if it isn't a presidential election, they usually dont care. Although this is a Governor election.... And i agree with you 100 percent!

I voted Nader first time he ran LOL

 

[Greyskull]

Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

i know, but so many people have given up on the system, and if it isn't a presidential election, they usually dont care. Although this is a Governor election.... And i agree with you 100 percent!

I voted Nader first time he ran LOL

I cant wait to wave 'aloha' to this fuckin mess haha
Tick tock tick tock

 

[Mitt Romulan]

What I find most troubling is the fact that Cooley has a good chance at winning the AG bid next month.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

So i was just talking about prop 19 with my stepdaughter and her dumbass boyfriend... Theyre in their early 20s.... Anyways...
They are telling me how important 19 (among many other issues...) is and how they are totally gonna vote yes

EXCEPT THEY HAVENT REGISTERED TO VOTE

these are 20 year olds from the bay... Supposedly a hot spot for political activity... And they havent even fucking registered to vote.

I hope 19s fate doesnt rest with the 20 somethings whod rather be playing warcraft or some other lame game.... Im very dissapointed right now in the youngsters.

I need about 11 bong hits gonna go prep some bowls...

I believe they have until Thursday to register...

 

[Mr Celsius]

LOL

How old are you guys? Is the population really that old? Am I the only young person here?

EDIT:

PS, you can still register at the polling place, so IDK what kind of stuff you guys are smoking, but it must be good.