Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[shaggyballs]

Gawd. Some people are never happy.
I am never happy when my right are being taken away in the name of profit should I be??The rest of us here in CO are very pleased with our legalization scheme, even the straights.

I am very happy to hear that I truly think this is a fantastic thing

Perfect? Did we get the pony we always wanted? No.

Utterly marvelous & more than we'd hoped for? Absolutely.

Doing what we can do legally in CO somewhere else, like Texas, Oklahoma or Florida is a ticket to the Big House for all too many people. They'll break your balls off, boy, feel great about doing it, too. It's what they live for.

Keep it going It all sound great now BUT...did you read the posts by sam?
He is of the mind you will be taken over by big business will you still be happy then?

Sams Quote

I support almost any legalization effort, it is the only way things will change is to get Government and Big Biz to get a piece of the pie, tax regulate and allow big biz to be involved.

This is a man more in touch with the industry than you or I could ever dream of being!

You see Big business will have there way!
Just like walmart and meijer are pushing out all the small grocery stores.

Then they can set the price of food where they want to due to lack of competition.

 

[Jhhnn]

If anyone had any facts to offer, that'd be nice, but in reality, this entire process is new, no one has any idea what they're doing, we're fumbling around in the dark creating brand new regulations for a brand new industry. Letting people run wild doesn't work for the Feds, California proved that, right now in order to prove we're different from Cali we're going the opposite direction, over regulation, which is giving us higher prices and red tape. Balance will be achieved, eventually.

True, that.

We're revealing the facts as we go along. In terms of societal impact, the upside to legalization far outweighs any downside, at least so far. That's very unlikely to change. We can only reveal the truth of legalization with legalization, something that universal prohibition prevented entirely. Catch 22.

Anybody who thinks our breakthrough won't have profound positive consequences for the rest of the country & the world is either very poorly informed or has shit fer brains. By the time the 2016 election rolls around, prohibition in this country will be headed for the graveyard. It already is.

 

[Jhhnn]

Keep it going It all sound great now BUT...did you read the posts by sam?
He is of the mind you will be taken over by big business will you still be happy then?

Sams Quote

I support almost any legalization effort, it is the only way things will change is to get Government and Big Biz to get a piece of the pie, tax regulate and allow big biz to be involved.

This is a man more in touch with the industry than you or I could ever dream of being!

You see Big business will have there way!
Just like walmart and meijer are pushing out all the small grocery stores.

Then they can set the price of food where they want to due to lack of competition.

Fear monger often? Reference the boogeyman every chance you get?

The only reason that cannabis prices are as high as they are is because of artificially limited supply & access. The number of producers beginning to compete in the CO retail market is currently quite large, more than the limited market will actually support in the medium to long run. The whole supply/ demand curve changes radically. Expect price wars as producers fight for their survival. I expect retail prices, even with taxes, to be lower than med prices as this unfolds. Well capitalized big greenhouse growers who know what they're doing will bury the competition. Their unit costs will benefit from economies of scale wrt nutrients, labor, processing, security & packaging, not to mention that sunshine is free. Small commercial growers will survive only by offering something truly exceptional. This fall, retailers will be free to simply sell other people's production, not have to grow their own at all, That will have a profound effect.

 

[shaggyballs]

Summary

shag
If legalization is modeled after beer I am ALL FOR IT!

HidingInTheHaze
I guess what we can take from this is that they have already lost their rights, and we stand to do the same if we do not learn from their mistakes. Maybe it's not the best strategy to jump at the first deal that's put on the table, they look at us like a bunch of stupid stoner's, why prove them right.

Hush
Yes, the real problem here is government and big-business sucking each others dicks. Money buys legislation. So big business has lobbied for all sorts of fees and inspections and so forth that they know the average person can't afford, yet is chump change to them.

Shag
Just take a look at big tobacco..The government protected us from any poisons added to that product without our knowledge...No they did not!

shag
I am all for legalization as long as it will not be run by the likes of the ATF

shag
In Washington it is legal and they are calling for a rally to change the law so they will not loose their rights.

Rally of WA.
The message is simple: We don’t want the Liquor Control Board, the states’ liquor distributor, writing rules for controlling medical cannabis and we want that provision stricken from the state budget bill.

shag
Remember I am on your side!!
We see the nasty side of legalization already....could it be done right ....sure.

ElusiveQuark
Is it not obvious to everyone where this is headed? Why are the dominoes falling so fast for medical marijuana, and yet edibles are under heavy fire? Why is a THC to CBD ratio considered unique novel and useful permitting patents and copyrights. It is rumored that genetic modification has been successfully applied to cannabis so that clones can't be made and viable seeds won't be generated. It's the very same strategy that has been applied to soy beans, corn , sugar beets, etc placing 90% of world control in the hands of one company. Genetic control coupled w enforcement through civil lawsuits for copyright infringement and IMF loan compliance in poorer countries also criminal penalties will lead to plea deals disclosing identity of bigger growers will be the effective mechanisms eliminating grower diversity. Every one I hope is aware of push in EU for laws eliminating buy sell or trade of seeds of all plants unless on list and then royalty must be paid. The toll bells are ringing and every step in this game recently has made consolidation and homogenization all the easier. I am sure that big seed companies and distribution web sites have been approached re: buyout and we won't know until damage is done. The whole Iraguay fiasco is only trial run for bigger fish to poison. If you don't see this playing out then start paying attention cause private prisons will replace possessors with growers and they are setting us up for failure now.

Point of last ramble was that the powers that be love creating consumers while eliminating all but a few producers. Legalization will not include personal growing unless personal growers form better lobby. I hope so but we are talking about a bunch of stoners. Hmmm

There will be a very fundamental difference in that there has not been a profit motive for big business to pressure govt to enforce. When legal and big busines sees big profits enforcement of grow laws will be out on overdrive and the civil and criminal penalties will be severe enough to deter. The pot will be genetically marked and black market product will be obvious. A million dollar fine coupled with 10 year prison sentence would shut down many growers. You need look no further than farmers at home to see how easy enforcement can be when big business chases big profit. There has been like two civil lawsuits filed a day by Monsanto against farmers in the US for copyright infringement over last two years and Monsamto is 177 - 0 in those suits and the farmers are left bankrupt. Game over.

If your hope solely to smoke a joint without getting hassled by the man, then we are on the right course. If you hope to grow your own or buy a seed or have access to all the strains that now exist, your future is bleak. A STRATEGY NEEDS TO BE FORMULATED NOW. If not, cannabis will be in the exact same situation as corn and soy beans. If they can do it to those crops they can do it to cannabis and are doing it. FYI Jhhh, doctrine of federal preemption applies and fed trumps state law when fed rules exist in area. Would require Us constitutional amendment or argument that it is covered under constitution already. Does anyone have info that such an argument has been successful? Situation in Canada is crazy scary. Progressive to repressive almost overnight. Research who the pkayers are that have been okayed to provide cannabis. Research Uraguay and ask why limit of 10!grams per week? Who are the parties helping with Uraguay experiment and now Canada. The dominoes are falling quickly. Also research which big breeders have already sold their catalogs to big business and why no disclosure to public? It's not enough to say legalize! Devils on the details

I'm sorry to keep posting but I'm frustrated with this issue and how successful the big money machine has been in placating people w white noise. Re: statement that people will continue to grow illegally. The rules have changed when people were permitted to buy it legally. Do you understand the significance of this point? Its the crux of why there will be enforcement, not only criminally but also civilly. A several billion maybe hundreds if billion dollar market that had no recognized structure was opened to them. Suddenly Monsanto,DuPont, Pfizer, etc were given incentive to eliminate competition, especially personal and illegal growers. They also want as many potential consumers as possible. Their strategy to control supply has at least three components, all of which they used with devastating efficiency with corn, soy beans, sugar beets, etc. Between 90-100% of production of those crops worldwide is controlled by just a few companies. I think we can all agree that if such control can be placed on staple crops the world depends on to live they can likely do it to a nonstaple plant like cannabis. There are very few varieties of corn left and that number is shrinking. Here is how it happened
1. They developed herbicide that killed all vegetation in an area.
2. They genetically modified corn so that it would be only thing that would grow.
3. They genetically modified corn so it could not reproduce sexually or through replication.
4. They created demand for their product by consuming ting huge tracts of land so their corn was only one that would grow. They also enlisted help of IMF, who lends money to economically distressed countries under a variety of conditions. In this case one condition was that borrowing nation would force use of the the modified seeds only and that licensing agreements would be signed by farmers agreeing to purchase new seeds every year from same company. Surprisingly, India's farmers found themselves tied to this system after a long history of more sustained farming enters they planted seeds from previous years crop w no need to buy new beans. The economic and social consequences in India were tremendous, resulting on huge number of suicides by farmers that couldn't break vicious debt cycle.


shag
Canada had the same situation for many years ..but they are here now...are you next..we will see.

shag
I have nothing personal to gain by swaying this argument!!!
All I am asking is to be aware of what is happening behind the scenes.

I wish you good luck with legalization to those that want it..But consider yourself warned!

HunterJ
If anyone thinks cannabis is being legalized out of compassion you are sorely mistaken. It is being done for money, human nature hasn't suddenly evolved. But let it be legalized, just don't think you've won anything but a place in another queue.

Keep your seeds, mothers and grow skills tuned, you're going to need them if you value real quality weed grown for love and not for money.

Guerrilla is a frame of mind that never really dies except in submission to another frame of mind.

Surrender? Fuck that ... not to what amounts to another form of control.

Hush
CO legalization by constitutional amendment is basically permanent.

shag
Oh you mean permanent like our constitutional right to freedom of speech and our permanent right to bare arms.

Both of which are under attack at this very moment.

Check into it!!
Be informed!!
Do not believe what the government tells you as whole truth!
Find the truth for yourself!

shag
Again I challenge anyone to show real world proof legalization will not take right away from the people and give more power to the government.

HidingInTheHaze
It's all about money, it has nothing to do with them actually caring about weed, its because states are broke and need tax revenue to cover all of their poor spending habits. And I am so sick of people saying you must be a greedy persons bla bla bla if you dont agree with this legalization model, that is so ridiculous we are all entitled to our own opinion just like we have to listen to your cheerleading for exorbiant taxes. My opinion comes not out of greed, I just think they are sticking the screws to cannabis users, when cannabis is way less bad for you than cigarettes, prescription drugs and alcohol.

They should be promoting cannabis as a healthy alternative and take people off of alcohol and cigarettes which are the two greatest killers in our society.

HidingInTheHaze
you do realize that the profit is not going away and prices are not going down right?

You are just taking privileges away from small timers and placing that privilege in the hands of people that have tons of money to throw around.

Someone is still going to profit, who are you to say if it should not be me and it should be some rich dude only in it only for profit.

You think these people are getting in the business to give it away? Cash rules everything around me C.R.E.A.M get the money dolla dolla bill yall. Nobody does anything for free, we all should have the right to make a living how we see fit within the confines of a law.

TAX = A Fine, look up the definitions they are pretty much the same damn thing.

shag
You see I am really in favor of legalization (done correctly)
My real goal here was to raise awareness to what is really going on in the world!
No more loss of control,less regulation.no crazy taxes....I think some tax is OK....25% is a little high in my book!

My message is simple Be aware of what is happening behind the scene.

Do your research before forming your opinion!
Keep big business out of the cannabis business!

Let it not be run in the name of profit... but by the people and for the people.

Please stay informed!
I do not ask you to listen to what I say.
I merely suggest you look deep to find the real truth!
Then examine the evidence for yourself !
Get into deep thought and say to yourself ...Could they really do that to us if they wanted to?

It would seem we all really have the same goals.
But I am more suspicious of government lies and corporate greed than most.
But I am probably more informed on the subject than most.

Things sound great in CO. now!
Will they stay the same.....can you keep mega mart out!
Only time will tell!
I truly hope all goes well for legalization!
But I am very skeptical to say the least!

shag
If legalization is modeled after beer I am ALL FOR IT
Everyone can get it anywhere cheap and high quality at the right price...competition is good for the market.
Government wont like that they hate competition!
And you can make your own if you do not like what is being offered!
YA YA YA lets legalize that way!
But unfortunately that is a bit of a fantasy.
Is it realistic to think they will let us get to that point(I personally doubt it)

Legalization is currently about money and power when that changes we have a small chance at what we all really want!

Till legalization is:
Of the People, by the People, for the People

Not money and power I am out..As any REAL Freedom fighter would be!

When you have given up all your freedom as we have started to do already....Maybe someone will say we should not have given up our right to freedom for greed and power!
More government control and less freedom to do what we wish is best for everyone right!

If you think it is not about control...then why did I have to give up my right to own a gun just to get my medicine legally?

shag
My opinion means nothing!
People are in distress because of legalization is what is vitally important!

sam s
800,000+ arrests in the USA last year, enough is enough.

shag
I whole heartedly agree
I have no fear of legalization as I stated before but it has to be done of the people, by the people, for the people This is all I require.
Is that really asking too much... really??

trichrider
i'm not happy about wash states lcb control.

law enforcement got their way, treasury got their way, addiction centers got their way.

medical is thrown under that bus.

home grows will now be targets as they are directly competing with state tax income.

that's you and me.

legality is somewhat of a misnomer here.

I will attend the rally and voice my disappointment on june 19 in Olympia knowing the chances are small of having an impact on the visions of dollar signs.

"Dear Governer Inslee,

I have health issues which cannabis has helped tremendously. After surviving several surgeries I became addicted to the pain pills and suffered further.
Six years ago I relocated to Washinton and utilized our states medical marijuana laws to find relief. Cannabis allowed the discontinuance of those narcotic poisons.

I am fixed income senior and have qualified for Apple Health but have yet to use it.

Removing my rights under RCW61.5 to produce my own medicine will make me either a criminal, or will force me back into the health care system I just managed to escape.

were this to happen, I foresee huge expense to the state with testing, x-rays, MRIs, treatment modalities, and drugs.

This is the reality of my situation. I'm sure you can understand i'm not alone or unique in finding myself at odds with attempts by the state to provide cannabis to recreational users at the expense of the medical marijuana patients.

The medical marijuana patients should come first, then recreational users can be pandered to.

Sams Quote

I support almost any legalization effort, it is the only way things will change is to get Government and Big Biz to get a piece of the pie, tax regulate and allow big biz to be involved.

This is a man more in touch with the industry than you or I could ever dream of being!

shag
You see Big business will have there way!
Just like walmart and meijer are pushing out all the small grocery stores.

Then they can set the price of food where they want to due to lack of competition.

I am not saying these thing are certain only possible!
You don.t seem open to the idea of this could happen and change things dramatically.

I only as that you stay well informed and open minded and please do not let them pull the rug out from underneath you.
Please for all our sake!
I could care less if you think of me as a nut!
Just keep watch for the rest of the world.
This is not a personal agenda!
I would like the world to see the real truth!
My opinion really means nothing!!
Raising awareness of the evil things currently taking place in the world is of real importance to all of us...Right!

Also their are other of like mind here why are their posts being ignored as they have contributed valuable real world facts

This has turned into a personal attack on me!!

 

[shaggyballs]

Fear monger often? Reference the boogeyman every chance you get?

The only reason that cannabis prices are as high as they are is because of artificially limited supply & access. The number of producers beginning to compete in the CO retail market is currently quite large, more than the limited market will actually support in the medium to long run. The whole supply/ demand curve changes radically. Expect price wars as producers fight for their survival. I expect retail prices, even with taxes, to be lower than med prices as this unfolds. Well capitalized big greenhouse growers who know what they're doing will bury the competition. Their unit costs will benefit from economies of scale wrt nutrients, labor, processing, security & packaging, not to mention that sunshine is free. Small commercial growers will survive only by offering something truly exceptional. This fall, retailers will be free to simply sell other people's production, not have to grow their own at all, That will have a profound effect.

What happens when the competition is eliminated?
We all know competition is good for consumers.
Do you think greenhouse growers feel the same?
Can you say corner the market?

I am not saying these thing are certain only possible!
You don.t seem open to the idea of this could happen and change things dramatically.

I only as that you stay well informed and open minded and please do not let them pull the rug out from underneath you.
Please for all our sake!
I could care less if you think of me as a nut!
Just keep watch for the rest of the world.
This is not a personal agenda!
I would like the world to see the real truth!
My opinion really means nothing!!
Raising awareness of the evil things currently taking place in the world is of real importance to all of us...Right!

 

[stoned-trout]

legal or not I will always find a way to grow.....fuck em

 

[Jhhnn]

Meh. There is no monopoly in other sin tax markets- alcohol & tobacco, for starters. If they can't get there in those markets over a few hundred years, wtf makes you think it can happen wrt cannabis?

 

[bentom187]

These are some examples of what happens when business and government come together to engage in cornering markets AKA crony capitalism.

The government is the biggest monopoly especially with regard to violence and dispute resolution. So since they have this monopoly on violence they have set up a system of laws which regulate who may compete in any market at all. That includes cannabis.

The cannabis industry will start lobbying for regulations to squeeze out the competition. The ones who cannot afford to comply will die off.

The black market will always exist with these law's and regulations so the government can get paid and appear to keep people safe from the "bad" cannabis manufacturers, and the regulated cannabis manufacturers will not have to compete with the black market ,because they cannot operate openly and risk arrest if they do there is not much of a future for them or there family and assets.

Without the government's aid, this can not happen. There would be free and open competition in which the best product at the cheapest possible prices will be the end result.

Its a shame Frederic Bastiat is not more widely known especially in France where he was from. This should be mandatory reading in school.

What Is Regulatory Capture?
[YOUTUBEIF]BUvUtqTmd5c[/YOUTUBEIF]



http://bastiat.org/

This is an excellent explanation of why we should not want a government for anything. It is a mechanism of subjugation and oppression in other words slavery.

Government

by Frederic Bastiat, 1848


I wish some one would offer a prize for a good, simple, and intelligent definition of the word "Government."
What an immense service it would confer on society !

The Government! what is it? where is it? what does it do? what ought it to do? All we know is, that it is a mysterious personage; and, assuredly, it is the most solicited, the most tormented, the most overwhelmed, the most admired, the most accused, the most invoked, and the most provoked of any personage in the world.

I have not the pleasure of knowing my reader but I would stake ten to one that for six months he has been making Utopias, and if so, that he is looking to Government for the realization of them.

And should the reader happen to be a lady: I have no doubt that she is sincerely desirous of seeing all the evils of suffering humanity remedied, and that she thinks this might easily be done, if Government would only undertake it.

But, alas! that poor unfortunate personage, like Figaro, knows not to whom to listen, nor where to turn. The hundred thousand mouths of the press and of the platform cry out all at once -

"Organize labor and workmen."
"Repress insolence and the tyranny of capital."
"Make experiments upon manure and eggs."
"Cover the country with railways."
"Irrigate the plains."
"Plant the hills."
"Make model farms."
"Found social workshops."
"Nurture children."
"Instruct the youth."
"Assist the aged."
"Send the inhabitants of towns into the country."
"Equalize the profits of all trades."
"Lend money without interest to all who wish to borrow."
"Emancipate oppressed people everywhere."
"Rear and perfect the saddle-horse."
"Encourage the arts, and provide us musicians, painters, and architects."
"Restrict commerce, and at the same time create a merchant navy."
"Discover truth, and put a grain of reason into our heads. The mission of Government is to enlighten, to develop, to extend, to fortify, to spiritualize, and to sanctify the soul of the people."

"Do have a little patience, gentlemen" says Government, in a beseeching tone. "I will do what I can to satisfy you, but for this I must have resources. I have been preparing plans for five or six taxes, which are quite new, and not at all oppressive. You will see how willingly people will pay them."

Then comes a great exclamation: - "No! indeed! where is the merit of doing a thing with resources? Why, it does not deserve the name of a Government!

So far from loading us with fresh taxes, we would have you withdraw the old ones. You ought to suppress
"The tobacco tax."
"The tax on liquors."
"The tax on letters."
"Custom-house duties."
"Patents."


In the midst of this tumult, and now that the country has again and again changed the administration, for not having satisfied all its demands, I wanted to show that they were contradictory. But, what could I have been thinking about? Could I not keep this unfortunate observation to myself!

I have lost my character forever! I am looked upon as a man without heart and without feeling - a dry philosopher, an individualist, a plebeian - in a word, an economist of the practical school. But, pardon me, sublime writers, who stop at nothing, not even at contradictions. I am wrong, without a doubt, and I would willingly retract. I should be glad enough, you may be sure, if you had really discovered a beneficent and inexhaustible being, calling itself the Government, which has bread for all mouths, work for all hands, capital for all enterprises, credit for all projects, oil for all wounds, balm for all sufferings, advice for all perplexities, solutions for all doubts, truths for all intellects, diversions for all who want them, milk for infancy, and wine for old age - which can provide for all our wants, satisfy all our curiosity, correct all our errors, repair all our faults, and exempt us henceforth from the necessity for foresight, prudence, judgment, sagacity, experience, order, economy, temperance, and activity.

What reason could I have for not desiring to see such a discovery made? Indeed, the more I reflect upon it, the more do I see that nothing could be more convenient than that we should all of us have within our reach an inexhaustible source of wealth and enlightenment - a universal physician, an unlimited treasure, and an infallible counselor, such as you describe Government to be. Therefore it is that I want to have it pointed out and defined, and that a prize should be offered to the first discoverer of the phoenix. For no one would think of asserting that this precious discovery has yet been made, since up to this time everything presenting itself under the name of the Government has at some time been overturned by the people, precisely because it does not fulfill the rather contradictory conditions of the programme.

I will venture to say that I fear we are, in this respect, the dupes of one of the strangest illusions which have ever taken possession of the human mind.

Man recoils from trouble - from suffering; and yet he is condemned by nature to the suffering of privation, if he does not take the trouble to work. He has to choose, then, between these two evils. What means can he adopt to avoid both? There remains now, and there will remain, only one way, which is, to enjoy the labor of others. Such a course of conduct prevents the trouble and the satisfaction from preserving their natural proportion, and causes all the trouble to become the lot of one set of persons, and all the satisfaction that of another. This is the origin of slavery and of plunder, whatever its form may be - whether that of wars, imposition, violence, restrictions, frauds, &c. - monstrous abuses, but consistent with the thought which has given them birth. Oppression should be detested and resisted - it can hardly be called absurd.

Slavery is disappearing, thank heaven! and, on the other hand, our disposition to defend our property prevents direct and open plunder from being easy.

One thing, however, remains - it is the original inclination which exists in all men to divide the lot of life into two parts, throwing the trouble upon others, and keeping the satisfaction for themselves. It remains to be shown under what new form this sad tendency is manifesting itself.

The oppressor no longer acts directly and with his own powers upon his victim. No, our conscience has become too sensitive for that. The tyrant and his victim are still present, but there is an intermediate person between them, which is the Government - that is, the Law itself. What can be better calculated to silence our scruples, and, which is perhaps better appreciated, to overcome all resistance? We all therefore, put in our claim, under some pretext or other, and apply to Government. We say to it, " I am dissatisfied at the proportion between my labor and my enjoyments. I should like, for the sake of restoring the desired equilibrium, to take a part of the possessions of others. But this would be dangerous. Could not you facilitate the thing for me? Could you not find me a good place? or check the industry of my competitors? or, perhaps, lend me gratuitously some capital which, you may take from its possessor? Could you not bring up my children at the public expense? or grant me some prizes? or secure me a competence when I have attained my fiftieth year? By this mean I shall gain my end with an easy conscience, for the law will have acted for me, and I shall have all the advantages of plunder, without its risk or its disgrace!"

As it is certain, on the one hand, that we are all making some similar request to the Government; and as, on the other, it is proved that Government cannot satisfy one party without adding to the labor of the others, until I can obtain another definition of the word Government I feel authorized to give it my own. Who knows but it may obtain the prize? Here it is:

"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Continued at the site .............................................................

 

[shaggyballs]

Meh. There is no monopoly in other sin tax markets- alcohol & tobacco, for starters. If they can't get there in those markets over a few hundred years, wtf makes you think it can happen wrt cannabis?

bentom187 said it all and more!
By the way very well put bentom187

Looks like I am not the only NUT round here!

 

[armedoldhippy]

You can only buy alcohol from government approved suppliers
And you can not get the good stuff unless you get it illegally and possible go to jail!

This is what you want for cannabis??

It sure seems a lot of people will be going to jail when legalization comes!
Or at the least be guilty of criminal activity.

bullshit! it is legal to brew your own beer, & make your own wine right now, & it HAS BEEN for decades. yes, to get good moonshine you are breaking the law. but that is mainly because of the money-grubbing thugs that were putting trash in it, & condensing it through auto radiators & poisoning people with the lead used to solder the joints up. I don't WANT "pure grain" THC, just good smoke. you can quit trying to blow smoke up my ass about us being better off dealing with the police by keeping it illegal. when it is legal, industry will have to stop drug testing for THC, allowing people to keep their jobs instead of living on welfare/food stamps etc. I aint buying whatever it is you think you are selling...

 

[RoadRash]

Im not down with full boat legalization either. I am seeing even with medical, the small time, average grower is being pushed out, and priced out thru exorbitant fees for licensing.

Currently we are seeing private caregivers forced out of the game to make way for giant weed farms. I believe in weed freedom and no one should ever go to jail for weed, but this is quickly becoming a rich mans game, Dr's, Lawyers, Ex-Cops, Ex Politicians, these are the new face of weed if things continue the way they are.

All of the people that have made weed what it is today, the growers working tirelessly underground to fuel the movement, well the states will take a huge shit right on your heads and not think twice. And home growing will still be illegal if you cant afford to pay them thousands of dollars for taxes and fees, so what kind of progress is that. Just so you can go down to 7-11 and buy a bag, whoopty freakin doo, I dont buy weed, to me my right to grow and provide for others is much more important than any of that.

I thought the approach in Silicon Valley & SF in the 80's and '90's was pretty right-on.

Some companies drug-tested, some didn't.

Growing was OK if you ran a clean shop & kept your cards close to your chest.

One year I even paid taxes because I was concerned about that aspect of the legality. I thought that if I ever got busted, having paid taxes would be helpful. I declared it as gambling earnings which I figure is sort of true, it WAS a gamble.

A small grower who grew good medicine was always rewarded. And there was no fvcking paperwork.

I am hearing all sorts of things that make it sound like backwards progress.


In terms of "real-politik" however, I think that legalization is the right direction.

Maybe then the question is, how does that state/ county treat a small grower who 'didn't do the paperwork' ?


We won't have real legalization until we are free to grow without paperwork, and free to use hemp-derived feed-stock in commerce, again without paperwork (like Henry Ford making hemp-plastic body panels for cars.)

"Life Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness".

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

We won't have real legalization until we are free to grow without paperwork, and free to use hemp-derived feed-stock in commerce, again without paperwork (like Henry Ford making hemp-plastic body panels for cars.)

"Life Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness".

Legalization is not the word were after. I want it to be totally removed from criminality, no tax or fees to grow unless running a business then normal sales tax should apply, and licensing fees should be flushed down the toilet as well.

Just like I could grow 10,000 pine trees or tomato plants on my property without interference from the state so should I be able to grow 10,000 weed plants.

This 6 plant limit, pay so many thousands to grow X amount of plants is total BS, it is us conceding to what they are willing to offer.

The cannabis should be freed just like all other plants on earth, why is this one special, why do they feel the need to limit and control this one more than any other? Because of the all mighty dollar, thats the only reason. It is safer than milk there is no reason why it should be looked at as evil or subject to a "sin tax", by paying a sin tax we admit to sinning. Smoking weed is not a sin, only some small minded prick would call weed a sin, because "god" gave us all plants to use.

 

[shaggyballs]

bullshit! it is legal to brew your own beer, & make your own wine right now, & it HAS BEEN for decades. yes, to get good moonshine you are breaking the law. but that is mainly because of the money-grubbing thugs that were putting trash in it, & condensing it through auto radiators & poisoning people with the lead used to solder the joints up. I don't WANT "pure grain" THC, just good smoke. you can quit trying to blow smoke up my ass about us being better off dealing with the police by keeping it illegal. when it is legal, industry will have to stop drug testing for THC, allowing people to keep their jobs instead of living on welfare/food stamps etc. I aint buying whatever it is you think you are selling...

That is the thing friend I ain't sellin nuttin!!!
I simply present facts to you .
It gives me no personal gain to try to inform you!

Did you read the post???
If you did .....then you saw that I had also posted this more than once!

If legalization is modeled after beer I am ALL FOR IT
I still do not think that to be best solution.....But acceptable?...Very!

My man bentom187 took a lot of time to post some eye opening information!
Everyone should read this before posting!

A person looking for the real truth would take a real hard look at that stuff and just say WOW!
If you have the time check into it!


Where are the good folks with the real facts concerning the benefits of legalization?
At the very least let's examine the facts before we drink the Koolaid man!

Peace and Good Will to all !
shag

 

[bentom187]

bentom187 said it all and more!
By the way very well put bentom187

Looks like I am not the only NUT round here!

There are other's here for sure.

 

[shaggyballs]

Ya know I got to thinkin'
I know that is hard to believe but true!!

I think we are all on the same page!
Only some are willing to tolerate more than others!

Never let go of your freedom it is harder to get back than virginity!

 

[Jhhnn]

I thought the approach in Silicon Valley & SF in the 80's and '90's was pretty right-on.

Some companies drug-tested, some didn't.

Growing was OK if you ran a clean shop & kept your cards close to your chest.

One year I even paid taxes because I was concerned about that aspect of the legality. I thought that if I ever got busted, having paid taxes would be helpful. I declared it as gambling earnings which I figure is sort of true, it WAS a gamble.

A small grower who grew good medicine was always rewarded. And there was no fvcking paperwork.

I am hearing all sorts of things that make it sound like backwards progress.


In terms of "real-politik" however, I think that legalization is the right direction.

Maybe then the question is, how does that state/ county treat a small grower who 'didn't do the paperwork' ?


We won't have real legalization until we are free to grow without paperwork, and free to use hemp-derived feed-stock in commerce, again without paperwork (like Henry Ford making hemp-plastic body panels for cars.)

"Life Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness".

Mostly, you liked it because you didn't get busted. Run the alternate scenario in your head- how's that workin' for ya?

 

[Jhhnn]

Legalization is not the word were after. I want it to be totally removed from criminality, no tax or fees to grow unless running a business then normal sales tax should apply, and licensing fees should be flushed down the toilet as well.

Just like I could grow 10,000 pine trees or tomato plants on my property without interference from the state so should I be able to grow 10,000 weed plants.

This 6 plant limit, pay so many thousands to grow X amount of plants is total BS, it is us conceding to what they are willing to offer.

The cannabis should be freed just like all other plants on earth, why is this one special, why do they feel the need to limit and control this one more than any other? Because of the all mighty dollar, thats the only reason. It is safer than milk there is no reason why it should be looked at as evil or subject to a "sin tax", by paying a sin tax we admit to sinning. Smoking weed is not a sin, only some small minded prick would call weed a sin, because "god" gave us all plants to use.

It's not like we can make a quantum leap from total prohibition to total do whatever you want, is it?

Colorado legalization is incrementalism- we made it to the other side of legality, at least for the vast majority of those involved. Doesn't mean we'll stop there.

We got everything we wanted except the pony. Don't cry about it on our account, OK?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

From the tiny amount I know of you It is my belief you will profit from it directly, I could be wrong, I will let you answer that, if you are willing to!
shag

Interesting focus, but to be honest I have spent several times anything I have yet made from legal Cannabis, that is the truth.
I might yet, I hope, after spending years and a fortune to do the research.
Now be honest have you ever made a profit from Cannabis, ever?
That profit was primarily a product of the illegality of Cannabis, so if yes you have and still may be profiting from the illegality?
But that is not really the important point, it is the 800,000+ Cannabis arrests that I want to end. That is one of the main reasons I have done what I have done in my life, to bring medical Cannabis back into mainstream medicine, as well as industrial Cannabis, with my eye on recreational. It has been obvious to me from the beginning that in the end, if you can buy legal Cannabis as a medicine everywhere, and you grow your own at home for your own use, no jury will convict you and send you to jail for doing so. It will take a bit of time, but that was my conviction from the beginning. Same with industrial Cannabis, I wanted it used, grown worldwide legally.
I have seen a change slowly at first, getting faster and faster, until now even recreational is on the verge of being legalized.
Whatever, I do not really feel the need to explain my actions to you, as you have zero to do with my life or goals.
I liked your terpene thread, it is indirectly a result of my terpene studies done over a decade ago, should I have just saved my personal money and never done any terpene research? Would that be better for anyone? If I have done the work do I deserve any return?
I have worked on this for 40+ years, where were you? If you were there, excuse me....
Legalize now!!!!
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Na, not if we have to legalize Cannabis, everyone knows it is just a plot to allow big biz to take over Cannabis.
Those words were never written or thought by me ever!
Please stop with the false accusations
shag

It was sarcasm, it was not a quote of yours, I did not say it was, are you maybe paranoid?
-SamS

 

[shaggyballs]

Interesting focus, but to be honest I have spent several times anything I have yet made from legal Cannabis, that is the truth.
I might, I hope, after spending years and a fortune to do the research.
Now be honest have you ever made a profit from Cannabis, ever?
That profit was primarily a product of the illegality of Cannabis, so if yes you have and still may be profiting from the illegality?
But that is not really the important point, it is the 800,000+ Cannabis arrests that I want to end. That is one of the main reasons I have done what I have done in my life, to bring medical Cannabis back into mainstream medicine, as well as industrial Cannabis, with my eye on recreational. It has been obvious to me from the beginning that in the end, if you can buy legal Cannabis as a medicine everywhere, and you grow your own at home for your own use, no jury will convict you and send you to jail for doing so. I am not so trusting It will take a bit of time, but that was my conviction from the beginning. Same with industrial Cannabis, I wanted it used, grown worldwide legally.
I have seen a change slowly at first, getting faster and faster, until now even recreational is on the verge of being legalized.
You clearly have more knowledge on the subject than I , still I remain very skeptical.
Whatever, I do not really feel the need to explain my actions to you, as you have zero to do with my life or goals.
You have explained yourself to a larger degree than I had expected! Your time is appreciated!
I have worked on this for 40 years, where were you?
Not working as hard as you, but then as now trying to help with activism as much as possible!
I past around an old copy of The emperor wears no clothes
(old guy too)
Legalize!!!!
-SamS

Thank you for the reply.....most would not!
After reading your post:
I must admit my self-indulged impression of you being self profit motivated seems corrupt.

I am still not convinced this will work as expected but I am only one man......Trying to raise awareness to the fact that we need to keep a watchful eye on this or it could get out of hand quickly!
Stay informed!
Shag