Vintage Mexican, Seed germination and Micro propagation techniques.

[troutman]

This is what I told Mystic Funk last night and it's called Bio-priming of Seeds.

Basically seeds are coated with good microorganisms prior to germination. Great White from Plant Success
has the right microorganisms. I'm sure other Myco products can be used as well. Just make sure it has at
least Trichoderma harzianum and/or Pseudomonas fluorescens in them. Bacillus subtilis is also good.

For example: If seeds were harvested from the outdoors they could have some botrytis fungus or other
bad stuff on them even though it hasn't germinated yet. In the refrigerator those spores are just waiting
to come alive. Once you add water and room temp that bad stuff grows and kills weak old seeds. With
Bio-priming the seeds are covered with good microorganisms that kill and compete with the bad stuff
right away. With fresh seeds this is probably not too important. Very old and rare seeds that germinate
very slowly could use these good guys on their sides.

I actually added a tiny amount of Great White to 1000's of outdoor seeds stored in bulk last night
as dry powder only and re-stored them. So once my seeds get germinated one day the good guys
can kick the bad guys asses right out of the gate.

Procedure of Seed Bio-priming

Pre-soak the seeds in water for 12 h.

Mix the formulated product of bioagent (Trichoderma harzianum and/or Pseudomonas fluorescens)
with the pre-soaked seeds at the rate of 10 g per kg seed.

Put the treated seeds as a heap.

Cover the heap with a moist jute sack to maintain high humidity.

Incubate the seeds under high humidity for about 48 h at approximately 25–32 °C.

Bioagent adhered to the seed grows on the seed surface under moist condition to
form a protective layer all around the seed coat.

Sow the seeds in nursery bed.

The seeds thus bio-primed with the bioagent provide protection against seed-and
soil-borne plant pathogens, improving germination and seedling growth.

Check this link for more info.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-81-322-0723-8_6

 

[moose eater]

Thanks Troutman.

Having researched auxins, etc., a bit ago on-line, and the middle of my forehead being mildly reddened from slapping it repeatedly since, this thought occurred to me before reading your last post (though the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, unless someone who knows more than myself, and that would be any number of people, sees something herein that alarms them...).

What if a small amount of (Clonex/Hormex/Growth Hormone of choice) were added to the Great White, and the seeds were exposed to the 'soak' and incubation period you outlined, following the hydrogen peroxide bath and a brief soak in mild GA-3? Or perhaps, after the Hydrogen Peroxide soak, then divide the seeds into two groups, and soak one in the mild GA-3 solution w/ growth hormone added, then the Great White process you've outlined, and the other group in the Great White, but with a mild amount of common rooting/growth hormones?

Trying to maximize the chance of something living out of this, and clearly entering new territory for me, as a seed or two cracking and dying has also been my experience in the remote past, with most of them doing nothing productive.

I also have some (natural selection? selfed?) ruderalis x sativa crosses from the Copper River Basin, gifted to me close to 22 years ago, and have never tried to pop any.. mostly for lack of interest. Others have tried who were given some of those by me, but they failed as well.

 

[troutman]

Hydrogen peroxide will probably kill everything in Great White type products I bet. Don't do it.

If you use hydrogen peroxide at all prior to using Great White it would have to be rinsed off very well.

Like running water on the seeds for maybe 5 minutes to be safe.

 

[moose eater]

OK. Thanks. I can just use distilled and/or boiled and cooled water.

Anything else stand out in the proposal above that's apt to fall flat by virtue of poor design?

 

[troutman]

I don't use rooting hormones so I'm not sure on them just yet.

More research would have to be done.

 

[moose eater]

Cool. And thanks again.

Wonder how those folks who cracked the seeds found with the mummy would react to an urgent e-mail request for info on these questions?

Hell, maybe they're on these boards already??!!

I'll try doing some more searches and reading via this snail's-pace 56k dial-up of mine.

Thanks again!!!

 

[Americangrower]

hey man!
how old are these seeds and how were they stored???
from what i've learned along the way, it's best to clean the seeds in a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution first before doing any germ method to rid them of any mold spores.
it's sounds like that's what happened to yours, they pop open then stop growing because mold will attack them faster than they can grow.
or your other problem is that the seeds weren't stored well and the auxins and hormones are dried up.

a good friend just told me about coating the seeds in a dry beneficial bacteria to fight against bad mold when germinating.

so seeing that you don't have a worm bin, i'd do what i said above and then find a good quality organic soil mix and plant them in it after you soak them in light B1 solution over night to jump start them.... or you could just send them to me and i'll toss em in my worm bins for ya.



peace!
-mystic

These seeds are from aliens new release of seeds forgotten about and left inside buds in a storage locker for 2 years. They say that locker was climate controled.
I always soak in h2o2. I didn't see any spores growing on them as I have seen before on others.
I may scuff, do I h2o2 bath then a mild GA3. I'm thinking even if they grow crazy I can clone and hopefully it will grow out of it. Idk. I really want to get a alien rock candy male for my clones..

 

[Mystic Funk]

Hey Mystic,

I'd asked a similar question earlier, a page or two ago, and now it's almost answered.

By beneficial bacteria, are you referring to something like a broad-based myco and bacteria powder, like Great White? Or something different?

Re. the B-1, I have a variety of options, including Super-Thrive and Thrive Alive.

As for auxins, any references or pointers? Where, and what?

My GA-3 isn't here yet, and probably won't be for a week or two, but I'd like to climb right into this when those and other items arrive, assuming other chores and projects are out of the way. Finally have the bug again...

If it fails this time, maybe I'll just eat what remains. At least then I'll get some protein!!

Thanks!

hey moose eater!
sorry if i didn't answer your question earlier.
i wouldn't go crazy with all the stuff troutman and i have talked about, i would just keep it simple and test a few methods at a time and find what works for your seeds.
i would start out by cleaning the seeds off in a 3% hydrogen peroxide, just put a little in a small jar or glass and swirl the seeds around for few minutes then i would soak the them in a light solution of B1 super thrive and water only over night or you favorite B1 product. make sure you PH this solution to (6.3 to 6.5)
then if you want coat the seeds in a little great white or similar product and plant right in a rich organic soil mix in some solo cups and place them on a heating mat set to 78 degrees Fahrenheit, keep moist not wet and wait.....

if you get poor results with this method maybe next time, try a little GA3 when you soak the seeds in the B1 solution.


i wouldn't worry about getting any auxins or hormones right now, that's more for "micro propagation", you can read about that earlier in this thread. you'd need to use this method only on super old seeds like ones found in tombs or seeds that are heavily damaged. that's how they get them to grow, they only need a handful of cells to grow a whole plant.


if you have any more questions, feel free to ask!


peace!
-mystic

 

[moose eater]

Thanks Mystic. That was awesome and helpful.

Sometime my questions might get lost in the length of my posts...

I'll probably end up poking around a bit, re. methodology, as the basic scuff, over-night soak in 8 oz. H2O with a single drop of bleach, followed by wet towels or direct to soil have, as stated, been 'less than fruitful.'

And these seeds are over three+, some of them four+, decades old, and not necessarily properly kept; frozen thrice over, and mostly stored in a drawer in various containers/slips, with humidity in the location varying seasonally, and temps ranging from up to 85 f. in the summer, and down to 70 f (+/-) in the winter.

When I researched 'auxins' before my last post, the reason for the reference to slapping myself in the forehead was that the more common varieties of such growth hormones exist in the various rooting/cloning compounds I've had laying around me for ever. Thus the eventual and brief, "I'm a dumbass" moment.

Thanks again. When the GA-3 gets here, though I don't have as many of these seeds remaining as I'd like, in order to afford an otherwise greater variety of approaches in experimentation, I'll try several of each variety, or what ever I can come up with, through the several different processes outlined, and see what happens.

Thanks, and kind regards.

 

[ahortator]

Hi, Mystic and Pepé thank you very much for your answer!

About the use of GA3, I have seen in other forum someone bringing back to life some 40 years old Maui Wowie seeds.

Re: OTM's DIY Bubble Cloning & Sprouting 40 Year Old Seeds & Current RDWC Harvest

Old Bean Cracking Round 2

I am starting to feel real scientific now, this round I took a few more precautions, water temp monitoring, sterilizing all equipment, and treating the beans to a nice H2O2 bath to get rid of any nasty's that are as old as they are! The only thing I didn't do was the surgical gloves and Dr. mask!



After I scuffed the in the sandpaper tube, they spent about an hour in a shot glass with about a 90/10% water/peroxide solution, with me stirring them every 15 minutes while I liquefied the GA3.




I upped the PPM's of the GA3 to 500 and this round I will be using a temp probe (which I sterilized) as a monitor trying to maintain a dark room temp of 78-80 degrees.




They are now soaking, and I am hoping the second time is a charm!



I will keep a close eye on them and update as soon as anything starts to develop!

https://www.420magazine.com/forums/...eeds-current-rdwc-harvest-21.html#post3546315

But the germination rate was much lower than with Mystic's worm bin tek.

Greetings!

 

[Betterhaff]

Just curious Mystic. Have you ever taken the temp of the medium in the worm bin? I’m sure it’s nutrient rich plus some other things that may be contributing, just curious about the temp.

 

[Mystic Funk]

Just curious Mystic. Have you ever taken the temp of the medium in the worm bin? I’m sure it’s nutrient rich plus some other things that may be contributing, just curious about the temp.

hey betterhaff!
the bin is anywhere from 65F to 75F depending on the season.
worms don't like temps over 80F so it never gets that high and if it gets below 60F they start to slow down because they think it's winter.


peace!
-mystic

 

[Mystic Funk]

Hey guys!
it's been awhile since i had any updates, so as promised here's the latest on the vintage mexican.
i'm doing a test run of the seeds i made with the original V-Mex seeds.
this is the next generation of plants or "G1's" i like to call them to make it easy.
i won't be making any seeds this run, i just wanted to tests out a dozen seeds to see what i would find and i'm liking what i see so far.

peace!
-mystic

 

[Mystic Funk]

i found a couple nice males in the mix, one has 9 leaflets on each leaf and the other one has 11 leaflets.

sorry this one got a little burnt, my fault.

peace!
-mystic

 

[moose eater]

In your second generation of seeds/plants that were the result of the various methods you used to sprout, (i.e., hormones, etc.), are you finding the typical ratio of males to females often found in natural selection breeding/pollination? i.e. ~60% female and ~40% male?

 

[Mystic Funk]

In your second generation of seeds/plants that were the result of the various methods you used to sprout, (i.e., hormones, etc.), are you finding the typical ratio of males to females often found in natural selection breeding/pollination? i.e. ~60% female and ~40% male?

i'd have to say yes.
i found 4 males and 8 females




peace!
-mysric

 

[moose eater]

i'd have to say yes.
i found 4 males and 8 females




peace!
-mysric

Close enough for rock-n-roll!! That implies (without conclusion) that the genetics remain somewhat normal or stable, despite treatment(s), no?

Cool.

Edit: Gave out too much rep earlier.. :^(

 

[Mystic Funk]

Close enough for rock-n-roll!! That implies (without conclusion) that the genetics remain somewhat normal or stable, despite treatment(s), no?

Cool.

Edit: Gave out too much rep earlier.. :^(

also i didn't get any mutants or deformed plants, just a couple runts or little plants that were culled.



peace!
-mystic

 

[Nup]

Some nice looking plants. Nice to see the project moving along.

 

[troutman]

What about vintage mexican stem rub aromas?

Please.