Using Fresh Plant Material?????

[trichomefarmer]

Hello, again:

There are two main ways for the cannabinoids to be activated: one is decarboxylation, and the other is oxidation. When ripe plants are hand rubbed, the resin glands are broken so their contents are exposed to air, and world famous charas is produced at the moment. However, if gland heads are to be extracted intact (either using dry or wet methods) the only way to go is decarboxylation, which happens during the drying process.

so decarboxylation can only happen before the trichomes are seperated?

decarboxylation doesn't continue once the trichomes are seperated?

also when truly making a superior quality , quantity does not become a factor. if quantity is still a factor you will not achieve the utmost quality.

 

[fari]

when you guys say freshly frozen trim... do you mean that when you kill your plants to let them dry, you trim all the buds before letting them dry? Doesnt this result in badly dried and cured buds?... I mean i am used to letting the whole plant dry for at least 2 weeks and then cutting off the trim... Is this trim too 'unfresh' to get hash results like you would with fresh trim? just curious and confused... peace

 

[gaiusmarius]

yes fari fresh trim means cut off right away when you harvest your plant.

i know that some people like to hang their plants whole upside-down to dry, if you do it this way, you will need to wait a few minutes after adding the dry trim to the water. by waiting a few minutes you are giving the water a chance to get sucked up by the dry trim, making it less dry and brittle. so you can still get amazing quality from it.

but yes, quite a few of us have found that using fresh trim will make us the best tasting and hitting hash.

what a load of rubbish to say best means best yield too. with hash making the best stuff can never give you the best yields. ask sam skunkman about his yields?

in the end each person has to chose for them selves, if they want to let the hash dry and cure or waste time and space letting the trim dry and cure.

in the end we are talking about such high quality hash that it really doesn't make much difference anymore.

 

[sugabear_II]

the only way to go is decarboxylation, which happens during the drying process.

sorry but that is just plain wrong. decarboxylation - or THC activation - does not occur until the material is heated either by combustion or heat in the case of a vaporizer. If decarboxylation occurred during drying you wouldn't need to cook the bud to make edibles. Anyone who has eaten a dry "raw" piece of bud can tell you the effect is much less than the eating the same quantity after some form of cooking has been performed.

 

[Chiefsmokingbud]

surprised Bubbleman hasn't chimed in lol

 

[fari]

yes fari fresh trim means cut off right away when you harvest your plant.

i know that some people like to hang their plants whole upside-down to dry, if you do it this way, you will need to wait a few minutes after adding the dry trim to the water. by waiting a few minutes you are giving the water a chance to get sucked up by the dry trim, making it less dry and brittle. so you can still get amazing quality from it.

but yes, quite a few of us have found that using fresh trim will make us the best tasting and hitting hash.

I think im gonna cut off the larger trim at harvest to make some 'fresh trim' hash... and later, after the drying process (about 2 weeks) i will cutt off the trim round the buds to try making some hash from some cured trim... sound like a good idea? or should i just do it all at once? greetz and thanks for the help!

 

[gaiusmarius]

one of the reasons it's done all at once is because the buds will look a bit nicer when dry, as the trim is cut off, not broken off like when it's dry. mainly people don't have the space or time to keep the plants in one piece. so it gets cut apart into branches which are then trimmed. although for the best hash it is important to take off the trichome less fan laves first separately. then cut of the small trichome covered leaves and collect them to be frozen after every trimming session. you want them as fresh as possible for the bubble making.

although i must say there is a school of thought that says you get a better tasting bud product by hanging the plant to dry with all the leaves. i believe this can seem to be the case, as the leaves and stems will slow down the drying process. which means on the day it's finally dry it will be nicer then the stuff that dried a bit quicker will be on the day it was first dry. the difference being in the extra time. take the extra time to cure the freshly trimmed buds and they will be just as nice.

anyway the main thing i wanted to say was, that leaves with no visible trichomes, will not make any hash. you can only collect what's there in the first place

 

[ilife]

even that will guy realized that water extractions are best done with fresh material. the reason we freeze it is to keep it fresh and so the water stays cold when you add it. how else will you keep fresh material till you are ready to make bubble.

gaiusmarius: Here is a quote from SamS on the Lawsuit thread about Will:

Will, You have no direct knowledge about much of what you are speaking about. When you say that:
"If you have never taken fresh bud straight from the plant into XTR, then you have not smoked the purest hashish, by the way when you use fresh you get 10% more than dried bud.

(This is because the resin has not yet been dried, of course it weighs more then dry resin.)

And the reason SamS gets low percentages is because he is only sifting for intact resin glands, nothing else.


iLiFE

 

[Random00]

Hello:

Trichomefarmer, you know decarboxylation continues after the gland heads are separated. The point is some members are telling all the people fresh plant material is the best, and I completely disagree. To me, this is simply another sign of the rushing times we live.

("Hippie crack": what a sad, indignant name for the glorious outcome of a misunderstood collaboration between nature and culture.)

When truly making a superior quality, quantity is not the main factor, but it's still a factor indeed. Ask your feminine side if quantity matters, for I see your affirmation is too masculine, therefore unbalanced. To achieve the best, one needs both views.

Having dealt with the relative sense of "best", the yield, the flavour, the presence -from hash to ash-, the effect..., everything is related. It's all about the potential of the input material. When processing a highly potent plant matter, the extraction system (bags with mesh screens, dry sifters, etc.) is put in place, which is second. Of course, there would be top quality plant matter with a relative lower trichome production, and still will make best hash, even superior. Varying ratios, as I said above.

At home we always try to produce our hash as bees produce their honey and royal jelly, with the only difference that bees take the input material from nature, and we are also the suppliers (due to breeding in the end). What we have seen, and I must say we exceptionally inhale other products than our honey and royal jelly, is that any superior product has five stars: presence, smell, taste, effect and yield.

I like your signatures Trichomefarmer: see my adult life reflected in this one. And the other one, asking for the lost world, remembered me I'm not the only one who feels that way. Also discovered that nobody is going to take it back for me, and that I have to do it by myself. I'm still in the middle of the Reconquista yet!

Fari, the respect you show for the plant will always be your best guide, and it will lead you securely to success. The best that many growers can do is preserving intact their plants until harvest time. Then, they go for a violent, sticky trimming orgy that sets a final point in the proper path to achieve a product full of power. Common sense rocks!

Gaiusmarius, I see you really are a moderator: first you say "what a load of rubbish to say best means best yield too", and in the end you concede that "we are talking about such high quality hash that it really doesn't make much difference anymore". I know about Sam Skunkman's yields and his ratios seem best balanced. He wrote he could produce dry sieved resin powder with over 70% of THC, but he prefers to let some contaminants in (therefore, raising the yield) and produce superior hashish with just 50-60% of THC.

Anyway, I would like that you save your hard expressions for the right ocassions. I think the "load of rubbish" one suits better to other posts than mine on this thread.


At the end of consumption, it reveals a golden heart.

For dealing with plant matter, I always recommend to go progressively, beginning with a first rough manicure at harvest to remove the oldest leaves from the vegetative stage, any signs of pests and diseases, and big stems if needed. I think cutting the smaller leaves and leaving everything which shows certain resin is a commercially based habit. Connoisseur grade bud must have almost no signs from the vegetative stage; only inflorescences.


Please, find in my gallery another example with three samples pictured on the Cannabible 3 hardcover.

Hey, I know this was a long one. In fact, I dedicated the whole Sunday journey to this subject "for the love of hash", as Cannabis Cowboy would say.

Thanks for reading,
Random

 

[Guest]

edit1

 

[trichomefarmer]

Good grief! quoting anything 'will' said is laughable at best... is this whole thread about a 'will' quote?


All I can say is bring yours to ic 420 in Amsterdam and maybe we can compare the differences in your dried trim bubble to others fresh trim bubble.

I have made both and I know which I prefer.

 

[DJ_highst_]

Hello:

Trichomefarmer, you know decarboxylation continues after the gland heads are separated. The point is some members are telling all the people fresh plant material is the best, and I completely disagree. To me, this is simply another sign of the rushing times we live.

("Hippie crack": what a sad, indignant name for the glorious outcome of a misunderstood collaboration between nature and culture.)

When truly making a superior quality, quantity is not the main factor, but it's still a factor indeed. Ask your feminine side if quantity matters, for I see your affirmation is too masculine, therefore unbalanced. To achieve the best, one needs both views.

Having dealt with the relative sense of "best", the yield, the flavour, the presence -from hash to ash-, the effect..., everything is related. It's all about the potential of the input material. When processing a highly potent plant matter, the extraction system (bags with mesh screens, dry sifters, etc.) is put in place, which is second. Of course, there would be top quality plant matter with a relative lower trichome production, and still will make best hash, even superior. Varying ratios, as I said above.

At home we always try to produce our hash as bees produce their honey and royal jelly, with the only difference that bees take the input material from nature, and we are also the suppliers (due to breeding in the end). What we have seen, and I must say we exceptionally inhale other products than our honey and royal jelly, is that any superior product has five stars: presence, smell, taste, effect and yield.

I like your signatures Trichomefarmer: see my adult life reflected in this one. And the other one, asking for the lost world, remembered me I'm not the only one who feels that way. Also discovered that nobody is going to take it back for me, and that I have to do it by myself. I'm still in the middle of the Reconquista yet!

Fari, the respect you show for the plant will always be your best guide, and it will lead you securely to success. The best that many growers can do is preserving intact their plants until harvest time. Then, they go for a violent, sticky trimming orgy that sets a final point in the proper path to achieve a product full of power. Common sense rocks!

Gaiusmarius, I see you really are a moderator: first you say "what a load of rubbish to say best means best yield too", and in the end you concede that "we are talking about such high quality hash that it really doesn't make much difference anymore". I know about Sam Skunkman's yields and his ratios seem best balanced. He wrote he could produce dry sieved resin powder with over 70% of THC, but he prefers to let some contaminants in (therefore, raising the yield) and produce superior hashish with just 50-60% of THC.

Anyway, I would like that you save your hard expressions for the right ocassions. I think the "load of rubbish" one suits better to other posts than mine on this thread.


At the end of consumption, it reveals a golden heart.

For dealing with plant matter, I always recommend to go progressively, beginning with a first rough manicure at harvest to remove the oldest leaves from the vegetative stage, any signs of pests and diseases, and big stems if needed. I think cutting the smaller leaves and leaving everything which shows certain resin is a commercially based habit. Connoisseur grade bud must have almost no signs from the vegetative stage; only inflorescences.


Please, find another example with three samples pictured on Cannabible 3 hardcover.

Hey, I know this was a long one. In fact, I dedicated the whole Sunday journey to this subject "for the love of hash", as Cannabis Cowboy would say.

Thanks for reading,
Random

after all that, you never really outlined the steps taken to acheive higher quality hash using dried trim. Most of your references to the dry trim being better used for hash making, was more with a dry seive technique (which I prefer at times and agree with you that dry material is best) When you refer to samskunkman's technique you are talking about his dry seive.

I think anyone who thinks that dry trim is best for CWH should really check out this site http://www.bubblebag.com bc if the buy who markets and has used the product more than any of us and gets the best results, is using fresh, frozen trim, then I think the case is closed. Just check out some of his pics they speak for themselves. highst

 

[gaiusmarius]

even that will guy realized that water extractions are best done with fresh material. the reason we freeze it is to keep it fresh and so the water stays cold when you add it. how else will you keep fresh material till you are ready to make bubble.

gaiusmarius: Here is a quote from SamS on the Lawsuit thread about Will:

Will, You have no direct knowledge about much of what you are speaking about. When you say that:
"If you have never taken fresh bud straight from the plant into XTR, then you have not smoked the purest hashish, by the way when you use fresh you get 10% more than dried bud.

(This is because the resin has not yet been dried, of course it weighs more then dry resin.)

well you seem to have trouble understanding the gist of things , so i guess i'll try again a bit slower. if you take my above statement in context, you will see that i said, even that will guy agreed with us that fresh frozen material makes the best hash. i totally agree with sam skunkman, will had no idea, but he did have that bit right.

And the reason SamS gets low percentages is because he is only sifting for intact resin glands, nothing else.


iLiFE

that's exactly what i said, when aiming for the best of the best yield can not be as high as when aiming for maximum yield. which ever you chose will be at the expense of the other. you can't have your cake and eat it too not when it comes to bubble making.

yes fari fresh trim means cut off right away when you harvest your plant.

i know that some people like to hang their plants whole upside-down to dry, if you do it this way, you will need to wait a few minutes after adding the dry trim to the water. by waiting a few minutes you are giving the water a chance to get sucked up by the dry trim, making it less dry and brittle. so you can still get amazing quality from it.

but yes, quite a few of us have found that using fresh trim will make us the best tasting and hitting hash.

what a load of rubbish to say best means best yield too. with hash making the best stuff can never give you the best yields. ask sam skunkman about his yields?

in the end each person has to chose for them selves, if they want to let the hash dry and cure or waste time and space letting the trim dry and cure.

in the end we are talking about such high quality hash that it really doesn't make much difference anymore.

Gaiusmarius, I see you really are a moderator: first you say "what a load of rubbish to say best means best yield too", and in the end you concede that "we are talking about such high quality hash that it really doesn't make much difference anymore". I know about Sam Skunkman's yields and his ratios seem best balanced. He wrote he could produce dry sieved resin powder with over 70% of THC, but he prefers to let some contaminants in (therefore, raising the yield) and produce superior hashish with just 50-60% of THC.

Anyway, I would like that you save your hard expressions for the right occasions. I think the "load of rubbish" one suits better to other posts than mine on this thread.

what i said is true, if that offends you i'm sorry. but it changes nothing, when making bubble you can go for yield or quality. you can't do both in the same run. same with the part about the quality, once you get to a certain level of purity the differences are minute. at this point only the real bubble lovers will try for even better stuff. so you see i was talking about two different things, the one to do with fresh or dry material, the other to do with quality or quantity. i hate when people try and score a cheap point by quoting out of context

by the way your first statement seems to imply some kind of problem with the mods on this site? or is it just me that you dislike? i mean what is wrong with this? "what a load of rubbish to say best means best yield too" it's not "hard expressions" dude, get real. hard expressions are some thing altogether different.

 

[ilife]

Instructions Using Fresh Dried Cannabis Material

Instructions Using Fresh Dried Cannabis Material

You have three options in preparing your Cannabis material for Ice-Water Extraction. Here are my instructions for using fresh dried cannabis material.

First you want to harvest the plant at the peak time. Remember your main goal in hash making is to harvest the fruit of the cannabis plant, the Resin Glands. In these instructions the goal is to not "bruise the fruit" until the time of smoking.

Option 1 Using fresh dried cannabis

1. Clean the plant before it has wilted of all the non hash making leaves. (These can sometimes be used for cooking purposes.)
2. Hang plant upside down in a clean, low temperature, with air circulating environment. 5 to 10 days depending on area temperatures.
3. Trim all Hash making material off of plants over a 150um silkscreen to catch all resin powders that are broken in the manicuring process. Save resin powder in freezer to be cleaned up later with a 100um silkscreen.
4. Try and store all resin covered cannabis material on a stainless steel tray or bowl until you make your ice-water extraction. ( to help collect any broken resin easily)
5. Place you filter bags in the bucket. Then add cold water until the bucket is a little over half full of water. Then add ice then your resin covered cannabis. ( if using zipper filter bags for the inside of washing machines fill zipper bag with ice then fill with resin covered cannabis and place in the washing machine with cold water and ice already in it)
7. If you have outdoor,dirty or small pieces of cannabis material, you can double the top screens for extra protection from contamination. example-220um,190um,190um,160um,160um,120um......
6. agitate for 6 minutes for a nice personal quality with flavor!!.( if using kitchen mixer agitate on no more than medium speed.)
7. filter resin water through filter bags/screen and rinse every screen individually with clean water. (If you live where you have water with a lot of calcium you should think about using RO water.)
8. When rinsing screens individually I prefer to do this in another empty bucket with one 160um and one 25um screen in the empty bucket. (work bucket) I do this because you will force some resin through the screen when rinsing, but do not worry because it will be caught in the 25um bag.
9. After rinsing each bag individually let water drain out until you have nothing more than a few drops coming from the pile of resin in the bag.
10. Place the bag with the resin in it on a shami or stack of paper towels. To absorb all the loose water. Pick bag up and move to a dry spot on the shami.
11. Use a plastic credit style card to collect (harvest) the resin from the bag.
12. Place the wet resin on a 23um silkscreen with little legs placed on the top four corners so you can flip it over and use the inside to dry you wet resin on.
13. Take empty filter bag that you just harvested from and rinse all the resin caught in the screen into the "work bucket" the bucket with the 160um and 25um filter bags. Then hang filter bag up to dry.
14. Do this for the 120um,73um,45um,25um and you will have a nice mixed pile of resin in the end. And a better percentage of quality resin.
15. The 160um bag makes excellent food grade resin.
16. go back to the 23um silkscreen with all your wet resin qualities on it. Take the plastic card and break up the wet resin so it can dry evenly.
17. Take a couple of paper towels and fold them up in to a square. Then take the folded paper towels and gently press up under each pile of wet resin. From underneath the 23um silkscreen absorbing any more loose water. Do this a few more times along with breaking up and moving around the wet resin powder until you can absorb no more loose water. (touch paper towel if wet than do it again a little later)
19. Start second run and agitate for 30 minutes.(Follow same process.)
18. Leave your 23um silkscreen/drying screen in a dry, dark air circulating environment for 24 to 48 hours. If you plan on storing your resin powder then let dry for 5 to 7 days and then place it in the freezer until wanted.

With this method and using quality resin covered cannabis you will end up with a superior resin powder that is amber in color and can be pressed between the fingers into a thin transparent sticky piece of hashish. This piece of hashish should snap when broken.

















your other options although I do not prefer these are:
2. really dry cannabis material
3. frozen fresh cannabis material, when using frozen fresh cannabis material you will more than likely end up with a white clump of resin that will never fell like it has dried completely. And will crumble at the touch. Never sticking together properly.
This is just my opinion from my own experiences.

"When making ice-water extractions the less time your resin is in the water the better your resin will be."

iLiFE

 

[gaiusmarius]

that's a nice walk through ilife. i love your bubble drying rack with the different sized screens for the different grades. i also find your way of getting out the excess water very interesting, i am planning to try it out with my next run.

as far as the fresh versus dry for bubble question goes, we will have to agree to differ.

Fresh Frozen Rocks!

edited to add:

"When making ice-water extractions the less time your resin is in the water the better your resin will be."

now on this we fully agree. one of the first few lessons one learns lol.

 

[Random00]

Communication breakdowns

Communication breakdowns

No offences, Gaiusmarius:

I am sorry if I didn't explain myself better. I exclusively talked about those minute differences you say, once you get a certain level of quality. I thought the pictures could help to focus, but is noticeable that was not enough.

Also, this might be the reason why I felt the "load of rubbish" expression as a hard one: because I pay attention to that minute differences.

Now I hope my observations are clear at least: as far as hashish goes, dry plant material gives the best quality and quantity; the key is the quality of the plant matter. If someone doesn't have a high quality input material, or have not mastered the extraction method, then fresh frozen plant matter and multiple filtration with water is the easiest way to produce something spectacular, hence the real bad name "hippie crack". However, the truly good herb experience is a whole other thing, and it has to do with consciousness.

About the cheap point comment, I feel misunderstood again, for I have no intention to play any kind of game; just try to be helpful. So you see there was no irony in my sentence: it was sincerely intended to recognize that you actually moderate. Nothing else.

Vale,
Random

 

[ilife]

Gaiusmarius

Gaiusmarius

well you seem to have trouble understanding the gist of things , so i guess i'll try again a bit slower. if you take my above statement in context, you will see that i said, even that will guy agreed with us that fresh frozen material makes the best hash. i totally agree with sam skunkman, will had no idea, but he did have that bit right.

gaiusmarius please do not post on anymore of my threads for all you do is contradict yourself and give bad advice. 1,980+ times.
PM me if you have anything to say.

Oh, and they are all the same size screens 23um on the drying rack.

iLiFE

 

[gaiusmarius]

gaiusmarius please do not post on anymore of my threads for all you do is contradict yourself and give bad advice. 1,980+ times.
PM me if you have anything to say.

thanks for the compliment ilife, i appreciate knowing your point of view. it's always good to know what kind of entity ones dealing with. cheers m8

 

[Perhaps]

I use fresh frozen but I think ilife is pretty much right.
The water is not acting as a solvent on the THC but it is acting as a solvent on other things in the trichome head. I would suppose the drier skin on the evenly dried trichome head would be more like the skin on custard or other partially dried gel like substance. you can only really dry it evenly and no destructivly on the plant IMO. This thicker skin would be less soluble and make it harder to to wash away the soluble parts of the trichome head, this is just my supposition though.
If you are doing mass amounts you have got to do this IMO.
I still think that if you are small time and you are smoking it just after it has dried and cured, that fresh frozen it a good way of getting a high grade but I may be changing my ways.
There is a big range of dryness, if the plant matter a still got a bit of spring and you do not smash the shit out of it, it is not going to break up anymore than fresh frozen.

 

[gaiusmarius]

pretty interesting perhaps, so the water is dissolving part of the trichome head? seems strange, because when i look under a microscope my trichome heads don't look dissolved, or broken in any way. in fact when ever one sees really good bubble, one will notice the intact trichome heads.

i can see that using perfectly dried and cured trimmings will also make you a fantastic product. as you say, if the material has a light springiness to it then it will not break up so easily to contaminate the hash. that's one of the main reasons for fresh frozen in the first place. as well as the tastiness that is.