Unofficial Coco Coir Growers Thread

[bonecarver_OG]

it sure is very concentrated one small bottle is enough for a very long time

we pay here 7 euro for the smalest bottle - dont remember how many ml it is

keep us posted on the kal gel - u can tell where to find mroe info about it?

peace

 

[sproutco]

So how are coco growers supposed to test the ph? Pour through method of adding a small amount of distilled water to it already wet and measuring the ph of the runoff from the drain holes? Directions for testing soil ph are in my signature. Can coco growers use the same directions?

 

[Guest]

Wish I could answer that with experience Sproutco...but from what I've read from coco nute manufacturers....you take a small sample of coco from the root zone and place in in a vessel of some sort with some distilled water. Swish it around, and let sit for 15 mins...mixing more if you like I guess. Then measure the runoff from that.

I have never checked my coco ph that way, cause I've never had a preoblem. I have used my Kelway a few times for shits and giggles....but I just keep all water/nute going in to be 5.8.

No lime in my mix either.

Cheers,
Sh

 

[stikky budz]

What Canna do is this >

Fill a measuring jug to the 150ml mark with deminerlaised water.

Top up to the 250ml mark with wet coco samples taken from various areas of the root zone.

Stir well and let rest for at least 2 HOURS.

Filter the substance and measure the filtrate.

Directions for testing soil ph are in my signature. Can coco growers use the same directions?

After watching the Canna DVD,,, it would seem logical to me that's probably the most accurate way to test ph.... wether it be in coco or soil.
I doubt there are many growers that actually test their ph (and e.c) correctly.
Personally, i dont think the "run off" way is accurate enough.

just my thoughts

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Quote:
4) How do I prepare the RW-cubes for inserting the rooted clones -will an overnight soak in pH 5,5] balanced 3-part GHE solution for rooting clones be fine or should I use the Coco A+B and maybe some kelp and thricoderma?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok if you get grodan cubes or another well known brand you shouldn't have to soak them overnight. i tell you what i do and have been doing for a long time. i spread the number of cubes i need on trays, then i fill a tank with water with very weak dose of nutes like ec 0.8 add the recommended dose of rhizotonic, correct the ph and done. that water i use to make the rw cubes on the trays soaking wet, till they are standing in a puddle in the trays. this takes quite some going over them with the hose as the cubes are slow to take up the water. but once you see that they are really soaked through, they are ready to have the clones planted in the holes. as easy as that. i know people talk about pre soaking the rw cubes, but i have never bothered, maybe if you get some building rw it needs conditioning, but those cubes with the holes have never needed it since i have been using them. but its up to you, if you feel better about it, leave your cubes in the tank for a night. again at this point is where you have to decide will you treat them like hydro or not. if yes, then never worry about squeezing water back out of the cubes or stuff like that, when you water them every 3 days, just give them plenty. of the same stuff you use to soak the rw cubes with.

THX alot for replieing so fast GM and BC!

I'm beginning to feel like a dumbass asking Q's that probably is answered all over the forums. Thing is, that since I've been doing mostly Bio-Bizz and Bio-Canna in organically ammended soil(less)-mixes I have never payed attention to pH for anything. (Just had a few problems due to myself forgetting to put dolomite in the medium or dilluting a feeding solution properly. -I would probably have grown a little better stuff if I always assured the pH was right. But as this was strictly personal supplies and I didn't have the necessary tools to measure it so I managed without.
-I should get done rambling now and head for what worries me.

My tapwater is nominated to drift between pH 5.85-7.15, but I have gotten readings at pH 6-6,5 (a little more sixish I beleive) from GHE testkit-drops. And for test-plants in buckets I gave plain tap-water and nutes that seemed to work fine. I also tried lowering the pH with their dry pH-down wich should give a value of 5-6 in most waters, but it sent it down at pH 4. I had too really reduce the recommended dosage and when I finally did it the bucket worked ok too... (I have a feeling that our public tap-water is very good and clean at pH 6,2 or so, with a very little satls in it like max. EC 0.2ms/sec. Don't think theres much chloride in it either)
-....and again I should quit rambling and ask my questions


1) I just wonder if the cubes internal pH will start hovering, and at what pH I should use at the solution for them and the slabs (what pH to keep in the res.)?

2) Do you people think I will need any pH adjustment with the Canna Coco regime, and if I do; up or down? (Would GHE- Dry pH-down powder suffice?)

3) When I start using my new Milwaukee instruments should I for instance measure the EC/ppm first, and then the pH last?


Hope I'm not bugging you in the middle of a hectic falls harvest. (Especially you outdoor guys down in spain.)
Wish I could leave Scandalnavia for a milder climate and society....- But I guess I will in the future. (And actually I like it here up north. At least most of the year, so its not like I'm complaining or anything...)

 

[gaiusmarius]

Hey sproutco

if you go back to Mampi's first post in this thread you will find the instructions from canna on how to measure your coco coir ec and ph. it involves taking samples from many places and adding distilled water, yes indeed. although i never bother with that kind of measuring, lol.

hey stikkybudz,

you have a good point about the correct way to measure ph and ec of the coco. the run off is not reliable because it changes values depending on how much water is in the slabs. you can test the run off when it first starts to dribble out and it will give different reading then when the water is gushing out. so yes, good point. the thing is with time you get to understand the coco, and you know how the reaction in the medium is always behind what's actually going on. also by making sure you only measure the return at the point when you have let the pump run long enough for lots of water to be gushing out again. if you only measure at that point it helps to give you an idea of what's going on nute wise. with time you learn at which point the return can be safely ignored and when you should react. but in the end it doesn't matter, you can go through a whole grow with never once checking the ec or ph of the coco. just follow their instruction and throw the return away and you can safely ignore it all, just concentrating on keeping your tank ec and ph at optimum levels. coco is so well buffered that it can take a lot of abuse before things start to go wrong.

hey Kenny Lingus,

1-the solution for soaking your rw cubes should be ph corrected to around 5.8 to 6.0

2-my tap water ph is 7.4 and my ec is 0.3 and it is no problem what so ever. i add the ferts to the ec i want, then i add ph minus (phosphoric acid) to lower the ph to 6.0 the canna nutes do lower it a bit but not enough for my high tap water ph. with your ph of 6.2 you might have to add some ph plus, as you don't want a lower ph then 5.7 really.

3- fill the tank with water, add the zym product if you use it. add the A+B, rhizotonic and mix it all up real good to your desired ec level. then correct the ph, probably upwards if your tap ph is already at 6.2 it could be that you never have to correct your ph at all. as the canna coco already lowers it a bit.

 

[Guest]

hey stikkybudz,

you have a good point about the correct way to measure ph and ec of the coco. the run off is not reliable because it changes values depending on how much water is in the slabs.

coco explained
according to this link, coco is filled with sodium chloryde , which leads to CA/MA deficiencies.I'm thinking that flushing the medium whith a light grow fert water can do the trick.


a friend has the same problem as sproutco: at 15 days old, seedlings'growth got stunned, lower leaves yellowing, mag deficiency...they're still healing.It looks like the algamic saved them , since the nutrient uptake/balance seemed messed up by coco itself.

still not sure if the plants can be saved though they're doing better


the only way he found was to flush with 5.9 water, then water only with 1ml biobloom, 1ml biogrow, 2 ml algamic (micro nutrients), and give them the same in foliar feed.

 

[gaiusmarius]

that's because he is letting the coco dry out between waterings. this causes a concentration of the salts. by watering every day or every other day, with ec 0.9 and ph 5.8 and that plant will come around no problems, within days you'll see. coco is not earth, do not let it get dry regularly. if you do you have to use a very low fert level and flush it regularly. to get the best out of coco, treat it like a hydroponic medium.

good growings

 

[Guest]

thank you very much gaius marius .

 

[gaiusmarius]

you're most welcome lurker,

the other point to remember, is that coco needs coco specific nutrients to work at it's best. the npk proportions are different in coco ferts then other hydro or even earth ferts. in coco the plants end up using more N then in other mediums. even in the flowering phase a lot on N is still used in coco.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

gaius - thats the reason the plants grown in coco are so lush compared to soil

 

[gaiusmarius]

yeah right, ........of course the trichoderma added to the coco slabs helps too. coco coir is natures own hydroponic medium. it just seems to make most plants feel at home and achieve their best. as simple as growing in earth if you want it to be. it has an ideal capacity to keep a healthy micro life. this gives it another advantage to conventional hydro, where the mediums micro life is repressed. it's also what makes coco grown buds so tasty when finished correctly. basically in coco they have combined the best of both hydro and earth growing in one medium. it's re useable at least 2, but up to 4 times. its biological, biodegradable and best of all come from a renewable source ie the coconut.

oh yes bonecarver, before i let myself get carried away with my enthusiasm for coco, let me get the label info up of this new product i'm using as a bloom stimulator, called calgel. so far i'm very happy with the way things are progressing, its such a thick syrup, it's like a paste and needs to be diluted in a jug of hot water before adding to the tank.

here is what it says on the english part of the label:

calgel is a high quality plant extract containing all macro and micro nutrients required for growth and bloom in any medium.

-visibly improves the absorption of nutrients at the root;
-assures a tangible strengthening and toughening of the top;
-assures a measurable increase in the mass of end product;
-assures the availability of sufficient magnesium for optimal chlorophyll and protein synthesis;
-does not contain harmful coloring agents and is not diluted with water. it consists only of the purest raw materials. therefore use with a low ec
-biogreen calgel is completely biological
-no best before date.

Use:

give once a week with the feed water. if using hydroponic growth methods use twice a week. if used in combination with the feed, reduce the ec of the feed in the tank by 0.3 and increase it again with calgel by 0.3 from the first week of bloom. (note: my guy told me that they mean after week 2 of 12/12 when the flowers start to show)

Mixing:

shake the container well, pour into a measuring jug. dissolve in hot water then stir well. because this is a pure undiluted fertilizer, it dissolves faster in hot water. once dissolved it is ready for use. fill tank to 3/4 then add solution.

peace out man

 

[bonecarver_OG]

coco buds are really tasty - no doubt about that cant get enough

 

[Bongojaz]

, as I only water maybe once wvery other week?? I'm sure theres some nute burn too,next time I will use the coco and perlite only and water in the needed nutes..
I hand water into 1 gal buckets with epson salts.


you only water once every other week? from the look of your pics your coco is as dry as i've ever seen. you really need to increase the water/feed there asap! you may want to back off on the es salt too. i read somewhere else in here about checking ph. the correct way to measure pH in coir is to take a sample of coir from the rootzone, add 4 parts of distilled water, shake and then measure pH. coir buffers pH at about 6 so pH in coir isn't too much of an issue as long as you feed them the correct pH nutrient.

 

[stikky budz]

Cheers for your answer earlier Gaiusmarius

Here's another Q for ya >

When do you add PK 13/14 in coco?
When i've added it to soil 'n hydro grows i usually add it around the 5th week into flower ( as per instructions on bottle - 3 weeks from harvest ..ish )
In the coco grow guide on the Canna site its saying to add it at the > "generative stage,, small fruits develop",,, and they give a time schedule of about 2 - 3 weeks into flower,,,,2 to 3 weeks earlier than i would normally add it.

I'm coming up to 3 weeks 12/12 and wondering if i should use it now or wait a lil longer????

 

[gaiusmarius]

hey stikky budz,

the pk13/14 is one of those products that causes quite a bit of confusion. firstly because there are different companies making and selling the pk13/14, each has their own different recommendations on the bottle. secondly because canna has been researching the pk and it's ideal application rate and timing.

as you say the bottle of canna's pk says to use it 3 weeks from harvest. this is mostly how i use it, once the buds are a nice size with 3 to 4 weeks to go, i'll give them some pk13/14. i reduce the ec and make it up with pk so that the ec ends up only a little bit higher then it was before. this tends to give the buds and extra kick in the ass, causing them to swell up and get compacter.

but according to some, the pk should be started at week 2 of 12/12 in a 1/4 dose. and keep adding a 1/4 until week 4 then go up to half dose, at week 6 change to full dose. stop adding pk at week 7, go back to normal a+b till the last 5 days when you should give only water. remember to reduce the normal nutes a bit according to how much pk you are gonna add. remember that its a mineral based fert and it is very concentrated, give to much and the flowering can stop in it's tracks.

nowadays i don't even use the pk much any more. but thats also because my WW is such a nute sissy that i get great results with very low fert levels and no pk added, lol.

i have recently discovered the cal gel and i must say as the grow moves forward i'm liking the effect of this stuff more and more. it seems to me that the plants are further advanced then normal at this time. the best thing is that it's biological.

anyway i hope this clears up the different opinions on the pk 13/14.

peace out

 

[stikky budz]

Cheers m8.

Hmmmmm,,,,interesting.
I might do a side by side comparison in that case using both methods.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

well put gaius - both methods of the PK use seems to have similar effects in the end

have u tried Ripen by GHE? it also works great

peace

 

[Human Nature]

I guess I might as well roll through here!

 

[gaiusmarius]

Cheers m8.

Hmmmmm,,,,interesting.
I might do a side by side comparison in that case using both methods.

that would be a cool experiment, why don't you document it in a thread? would be interesting to see. when i tried it once from week 2 i wasn't too happy, my plants didn't look as healthy as normal. although the yield was good.

hey boncarver,

yeah i agree, there doesn't seem much difference in the end with the two pk application methods.

as for as the ripen goes, i still haven't gotten around to trying it out. i have always done the last few days in coco with ph corrected water only, the idea of continuing to give them a high ec in the flushing period goes against the grain with me. also i am so very happy with the taste i achieve with my way of treating the coco, that i am scared to change my method. but it sounds like i should pick up a bottle and try it out? good stuff is it? i have seen it on the shelf and thought about it, but never actually got it.


hey Human Nature

good to see you found your way over to the official coco growers thread, lol.