Unofficial Coco Coir Growers Thread

[Blatant]

Well I figure I'll drop in with my Coco Knowledge.
I run a Mix of CocoGro from Botanicare at 70% Coco & 30% Hydrotron.
I ran 100% Coco and had great results but as I harvested and removed all the Coco from the Pots I noticed compacting on the Bottom. This mixture kept the roots from going in that area (Dead Zone). With the Hydrotron added it loosens up the Coco even more and gives the roots a lot more Air and Room to play in. All that will equal to bigger yields in the end.

Also Coco grown plants can get big and healthy in small containers. If you have a heavy yielding strain you will see that pulling 3oz. from a gallon pot is not out of the ordinary. It's Cation* properties allow it to deliver higher amounts of nutes to the roots.

Magnesium Def. is definitely a symptom to look out for. Even specialty nutes for Coco are known to have problems with this. A lil Epsom Salt or Cal-Mag will fix that right up. I only add it when I see it and not before. But like it was said before be carefull of the NPK values of these in Flower, as some do have Nitrogen.

Be careful of the strength of your Nutes too. Coco does not need a hot dose at all. The uptake is a lot quicker than soil, so it does'nt need such a rich dose each feeding. Too much of one thing will lock out the other.

I think thats what happen to you Anita. Too hot of a mixture. Do you have a TDS meter? Also did you flush your Coco before the grow? If it were me I would just have used the Mix of Coco,Perlite and Earthworm Castings till it showed new growth and went from there. I have a foliar feeding regiment in Veg and go easy on the Nutes which has worked tremendously and saves some coin too. I HIGHLY recommend it.

*Cation atom or group of atoms carrying a positive charge. The charge results because there are more protons than electrons in the cation. Cations can be formed from a metal by oxidation , from a neutral base by protonation, or from a polar compound by ionization. Cationic species include Na+, Mg++, and NH4+. Salts are made up of cations and anions.)

I know theres more........ I'll think of it later.
Blatant

 

[cough_cough_eer]

uuuummmmm I don't have a TDS meter but I do have a ph meter... for soil. Do I need a meter for hydro???

 

[bonecarver_OG]

about the container size - since smaler pots give bigger results in coco - BIG pots give HUGE results hehe

if u use pots - allways adding a inch of hydroton or even gravel to the botom of the pot/containers - is a sure way to get rid of that problem u call deadzone - i have never experienced it but i guess its because i allways add the clayballs in the botom.

peace

 

[Blatant]

Well most of us Hydro heads live by them. Keeping an eye on the PPM's will give you a better idea of what the plant is doing and how its feeding. Coco has great PH adjusting properties and will help out on the stableizing of PH. The PPM of Organics have a tendency to read high, but if they are off the charts you can back down on the Concentration of your Nute Cocktail. In other words, without a TDS meter... Start low...then go high.

Guanos can be very hot in a mix and burn your girls easily. Just bump it down and raise it as it is needed.

Blatant

 

[bonecarver_OG]

using canna coco - u dont need an ec meter - knowing the ml's u are adding to the nute mix - u also know the EC of the fertilizer mix (knowing ur water quality that is )

but of course i bet its fun - my co-op partner before wouldnt go out without his hanna meter - but not anymore. he stopped using it

once again canna is most likelly the best nutes for growing in coco.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Hey bonecarver

i check my tank ph and ec once every 3 days, but i could get away with just checking it once a week when i fill it up. but i like to keep a closer eye on things. my pump runs 4 times in the light phase, each time till about 15% of the water has come back to the tank. this of course has an effect on the tank ph and ec. when it's full the return has hardly any effect but towards the end of the tank the return can have quite some influence if one recirculates the nutrient solution like i do.

i totally agree with you about the coco specific nutes, if you are giving them at the correct level and ph then you will have no deficiencies. but only if you water at least once a day with run off. as the coco needs to stay quite wet, if you start treating it like earth and letting it get dry you will create a great imbalance, the salts will concentrate in relation to the water evaporating. so as coco always has enough air in it anyway, one can concentrate on keeping conditions stable. every time you give water in coco with run off, you are in effect also switching out the old used up air and replacing it with fresh.

thats why giving several waterings a day works. because it's a hydroponic medium that has 20% air even when soaked full of water. so by adding fresh water you force the old water and air out, replacing it with fresh water, as the old air is squeezed out, new air gets sucked in to replace it as soon as the pump turns off and allows the coco to drain again.

but like i say there are 2 ways of working with coco. treat it like earth and it will do you proud, or treat it like a hydroponic system and it will amaze you with growth speed and yield potential.

i would say a ppm or ec meter is essential for a beginner, but one can learn how to dose the nutes without. although when maintaining a tank of nutrient solution for automated drippers, you can't really do without. same with the ph meter, i'd be lost without them.

i like to give my coco slabs a massage in between runs to loosen the coco up a bit again, but even in 6.5 lt. pots i've had no problem with coco getting too hard.

this plant had only 3 days of veg time on the coco slabs before 12/12 was started. it got a week of rooting in to the rw cube time before the veg, but only 3 days in the coco slabs before 12/12, imagine that. the slabs are best for short veg phases, Mampi is right about that.

edited to add this pic,

 

[bonecarver_OG]

in coco watering less than every other day (talking about big pots obviously) is no good - i agree

i adjust ph and nutrition every day before watering even if it is for handwatering or for the pumps - but its easy since its mostly a question of adding a few buckets of nute and water mix the ec just doesnt change since the spill goes to the drain.

its really fantastic coco is such as versatile medium - and it works great in most ways

i know from before u (gaius) recycle the coco and use it for several cycles thats something worth checking out for us too - its not just anoying to throw out 1000's liters of coco - its quite scetchy too

seriously i have to look into the closed recycling sytems in the future - if i can get the water use down im doing a good thing - for my wallet and for the planet

i know coco can be used as a soil - mixing with the nutes like guano, worm castings etc - but the results are so much better using coco for what it was made for. atleast its much easier so say the least

what makes me laugh is tha fact i used to think hydro is complicated! - its sure is far more complicated/work to make a 100% fool proof soil mix for growing weed. i have the outmost respect for organic soil growers who get impressive results in indoors!

peace

 

[Guest]

Nice to see so many people chiming in with their thoughts on coco.

My question is...if you are handwatering every day...do you dilute the nutes to 1/4 strength or something else...or full feed every watering?

I was doing a watering every day with 1/4 strength nutes...but I have since gone to letting the coco dry up abit before watering again with full strength every watering...rtw.

Also...I see a few people using the zyme (cannazyme)...and I was wondering if it's Ok to mix these in with the nutes, or should they be watered in by themselves?

Cheers,
SH

 

[Kenny Lingus]

COCO-SLABS + RW-cubes in LIBRA-TRAY

COCO-SLABS + RW-cubes in LIBRA-TRAY

Then I'm going COCO!

Slabs was my choice for ease, but I'll try a couple of girls in an ammended soil, coco-coir, perlite clayball mix.

I'm just about to setup a part of my Homebox for 4 trays with 16-20 plants in RW on Canna's coco-slabs. They'll be fed Canna Coco series with PK 13/14, Rhizotonic and Cannazyme. (Cannot get regular Cannaboost here yet, just the Bioboost and Bio-Bizz or Advanced stuff...)
I'm settling with a run-to-waste operation to begin with -even though I practically hate to spill the nutrient solution. (I recently read the step-by-step manual at Canna's website and the recommended drainage is 10-20% for hard water at initial EC 0.6ms/sec. Purer water will anage with less drainage. -so I'm lucky here up north, I guess)

Of course my mind is full of questions again, and I will greatly appreciate answers to help me construct my new drip system...

1) Is a distance between slabs/libra-trays 5cm/2" sufficient?

2) Will 5 plants in each slab be ok if I only veg the rooted cube for 1-2 days after placed onto the slab?

3)
a-I'm able to get a 90L rez quite cheap, but I do already have one that can hold about 60L and wonder if it'll do for about a week?

b-Is an air-bubbler ok for keeping the resorvoir "alive" or should I use a circulation pump instead?

4) How do I prepare the RW-cubes for inserting the rooted clones -will an overnight soak in pH 5.5 balanced 3-part GHE solution for rooting clones be fine or should I use the Coco A+B and maybe some kelp and thricoderma?

5) Cannas manual says you should moisten the slab by watering until some run-off appeares using a solution @ EC 1.5 ms/sec, but isn't that a bit higher than ou guys in here would go for?

Thank you very much for sharing all this wonderful information.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

suburban homeboy - i guess it depends on what nutes u are using - with canna coco u feed before the coco dries up - allways giving "full dose" the full dose varies during the growth of a plant - from (our measures) about 1ml/10L to up to 35mland even 40ml for very nute hungry strains.

all canna products should be mixed in the nute solution.

for all u ppl wanting to have a look at canna nutes - here on this site u can write in ur data of the setup u have (the size of the rez, waterquality and such) and this cool applet gives u a guide for the nutes - with diferent doses for diferent stages of growth - personally i have found these values to be on the strong side - id recomend to use the valu7es the applet gives as guidelines of what could be the MAX dosage at a certain stage of growth.

http://www.canna-uk.com/dhtml/growschedule/index.php

hope it might help some one

kenny - it seems ur question is for gaius but ill give a try to answer some things

a smaller rez only means u have to fill it up a bit more often when i use pump i have used a 45 liter rez this far (since it was the water container i had for mixing nutes anyway) it means i fill it up everyday with 10-20 liters of water - depending on how much have been used a day

most likelly in a recirculating system u would have to ad less water than i did - maybe every 2 days would be ok or even more depending on factors like heat, the size of the plants and etc

airstones are great for keepeing the water in a healthy condition - most bacteria are aerophobic - meaning they dont like oxygen at all. putting several airstones definetly makes the water move a lot - so no need for pump in that case.

pease

 

[gaiusmarius]

Then I'm going COCO!

Slabs was my choice for ease, but I'll try a couple of girls in an ammended soil, coco-coir, perlite clayball mix.

I'm just about to setup a part of my Homebox for 4 trays with 16-20 plants in RW on Canna's coco-slabs. They'll be fed Canna Coco series with PK 13/14, Rhizotonic and Cannazyme. (Cannot get regular Cannaboost here yet, just the Bioboost and Bio-Bizz or Advanced stuff...)
I'm settling with a run-to-waste operation to begin with -even though I practically hate to spill the nutrient solution. (I recently read the step-by-step manual at Canna's website and the recommended drainage is 10-20% for hard water at initial EC 0.6ms/sec. Purer water will anage with less drainage. -so I'm lucky here up north, I guess)

Of course my mind is full of questions again, and I will greatly appreciate answers to help me construct my new drip system...

you have made a good choice, the slab setup with Libra trays is also a great way to grow in coco slabs. make sure you keep the two drain holes unblocked in the Libra trays. that is their only weak spot. you have these L bits that are quite thin, and some times they can get blocked up with coco, specially with new slabs, at the beginning you get some coco coming out. so just keep an eye on that and you'll be fine. you don't want a Libra try to flood lol. i prefer a water proof single table with a drain on one end, to lay the slabs on. if i was gonna use Libra trays i would drill the holes a bit bigger.

1) Is a distance between slabs/libra-trays 5cm/2" sufficient?

yes that is plenty, i have had the Libra trays nearly touching, so no worries. the plants will use the space you give them. within reason anyway.

2) Will 5 plants in each slab be ok if I only veg the rooted cube for 1-2 days after placed onto the slab?

yes sure 5 plants per slab is ok, i normally only put in 4 plants per slab, but i have done 5 and it works great too. the smaller the setup the better it is to have 5 rather then 4 plants per slab. just make sure that the plants have made roots come out the bottom of the 7cm by 7cm rw cubes, before you place them in the hole on the slabs.

3)
a-I'm able to get a 90L rez quite cheap, but I do already have one that can hold about 60L and wonder if it'll do for about a week?

i think your 60 lt. tank will be enough for 4 coco slabs. with 20 drippers no problem.

b-Is an air-bubbler ok for keeping the resorvoir "alive" or should I use a circulation pump instead?

well that's one of those cool things about coco growing, you don't need either one really. a dripper setup automatically produces plenty of DO. by using cannazym or another zym product as well as the rhizotonic in the first 5 weeks of 12/12 and the bioboost all will keep your res alive and well. of course there is no harm in a small pump mixing up the tank once in a while, but there is no need, canna nutes stay mixed once you mix them in. i never have anything other then a water heater only in winter, which keeps the temps from going too low. to me air pumps and shit is one of the reasons i use coco, so i can avoid that stuff, lol. the problem with a pump running all the time is the heat it adds to the water, so if you do have one hook it to the timer the pump is on.

4) How do I prepare the RW-cubes for inserting the rooted clones -will an overnight soak in pH 5.5 balanced 3-part GHE solution for rooting clones be fine or should I use the Coco A+B and maybe some kelp and thricoderma?

ok if you get grodan cubes or another well known brand you shouldn't have to soak them overnight. i tell you what i do and have been doing for a long time. i spread the number of cubes i need on trays, then i fill a tank with water with very weak dose of nutes like ec 0.8 add the recommended dose of rhizotonic, correct the ph and done. that water i use to make the rw cubes on the trays soaking wet, till they are standing in a puddle in the trays. this takes quite some going over them with the hose as the cubes are slow to take up the water. but once you see that they are really soaked through, they are ready to have the clones planted in the holes. as easy as that. i know people talk about pre soaking the rw cubes, but i have never bothered, maybe if you get some building rw it needs conditioning, but those cubes with the holes have never needed it since i have been using them. but its up to you, if you feel better about it, leave your cubes in the tank for a night. again at this point is where you have to decide will you treat them like hydro or not. if yes, then never worry about squeezing water back out of the cubes or stuff like that, when you water them every 3 days, just give them plenty. of the same stuff you use to soak the rw cubes with.

5) Cannas manual says you should moisten the slab by watering until some run-off appeares using a solution @ EC 1.5 ms/sec, but isn't that a bit higher than ou guys in here would go for?

yes canna gives some great advice, but they are really working with high nute tolerant strains. also it has to do with selling more ferts. also one has to remember that the plant is very hardy and resilient and can adapt to both a high nute or low nute feeding plan. just like the plants can be forced to make hydro roots or normal roots. depending how you treat it. so getting back to the initial wetting of the slabs.

first roll the slab a bit and soften up the inside, then cut you X and place your plant in the hole lifting the four flaps of plastic up against the cube. spike the cube with the dripper. once the whole table is done you fill your tank with ph corrected water only, now let the pump run till all the slabs are totally soaked and the water is gushing out again. at this point you fill the tank again and add the nutes and put your timer on to water 5 times a few minutes in the 18 hours of light, for the first 2 or 3 days, which will be the veg phase. as they get bigger you need to increase the time the pump runs, make sure you get a bit of run off from every slab each time the pump runs. after the veg phase you can go down to 3 or 4 waterings a day. after the initial soak of the new slabs i start with ec 1.0 and go up every other day as needed till they get to where they seem comfortable, normally about ec 1.5 to 1.8 depending on nute tolerance. but i do know some strains will do really well if you do exactly as canna suggests and start with ec 1.5 when you plant them. but my WW would never take such high levels without getting the yield totally screwed. coco performs better when the nutes are not too hot.

Thank you very much for sharing all this wonderful information.

it was my pleasure, hope it goes well for you.

 

[gaiusmarius]

LOL you beat me to it eh bonecarver? there i was putting my answer together and bang when i post it you already did it LOL. it very interesting to note how resilient and adaptable the cannabis plant is, specially when grown in coco. it really all depends on how you want to go about it, do you want to feed them hot or not? most strains will adapt to either situation, as long as the grower is consistent in what he does. start with a high ec on a new clone and keep giving it the highest dose it can take and it will soon learn to thrive at ec levels of 2.6 or even 3.0 and over. i've been able to see this on many occasions with different grows. although i never go higher then 2.0 even with my hottest running PP.

in my opinion the same goes for watering in coco, if you start the plants from the first day with multiple waterings a day, it will quickly adapt and make the most of the situation by growing water (hydro) roots.

one of my main reasons for keeping my slabs permanently full of water is to keep the salt levels steady. as you know coco holds a lot of water and that water is normally full of nutes, so if you let that water just evaporate you will cause the nutes in the root zone to get concentrated, causing all kinds of symptoms of deficiencies when in actual fact things are hot. by keeping the water level on the approximately on the same level, or at least not letting it get too dry, your also keeping the fert levels steady. you can verify this for yourself by checking the return ec of coco as it dries. you will note the less water comes out of the slab the higher the ec reading. the good thing is the coco is buffered so well and that it holds so much water that it takes a while before things get critical. always talking about pure coco that is.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

funny u need to heat the water in winter - here in summer we have to cool it using ice normally wish i had the oposite problem lol

here the heat in summer makes the rez get a bit of a slime in it covering tubes and sides of the rez - water breaks down quickly here in summer (+40 degrees celsius in the air = lots of airborne nasties) the airstones helps to keep that down to a minimum and a wash of the rez with a peroxide solution works great to get rid of that. i just empty the rez and scrub it with it - also i do ad a few drops of it a few times every now and then in the rez.

the aditive that might do the biggest difference in our growth rate might be SUPER VIT from hesi - try it and tell me what ya all think.

gaius - what do u think about using recirculating systems in the kind of heat we get here? would it even be worth trying to keep the rez at a good temp level? - im thinking about giving it a try anyway - atleast for the winter season here. i got friends doing DWC grows around here but they have airconditioned appartments.

im planning my future greenhouse (will build it in a year when my house is done) and as most agriculture greenhouses here are hydroponic in coco - i definetly planned with that too from the beginning - but my plan has been this far to have big plants in deep wide coco beds /maybe up to 500 - 600 liters each) - running the way we do outdoors but with drippers too - but thinking about it im sure its much more efficient (more harvests a year) with slabs - and also using stakes for suport etc i presume i should be able to grow good size plants (up to a 1,5m tall?)

the dimensions of the greenhouse would be about 8 m x 2,5 m and about 3 meters tall. im going to ad misters in the roof, and fluorecents for keeping the hours longer for veg in winter.

my question is how many slabs i could fit there comfortably?

its definetly worth a try - the bit of saving water really makes me interested in it. not even mentioning the thought of getting many smaller harvests instead of a few big

peace

 

[Guest]

suburban homeboy - i guess it depends on what nutes u are using - with canna coco u feed before the coco dries up - allways giving "full dose" the full dose varies during the growth of a plant - from (our measures) about 1ml/10L to up to 35mland even 40ml for very nute hungry strains.

all canna products should be mixed in the nute solution.

for all u ppl wanting to have a look at canna nutes - here on this site u can write in ur data of the setup u have (the size of the rez, waterquality and such) and this cool applet gives u a guide for the nutes - with diferent doses for diferent stages of growth - personally i have found these values to be on the strong side - id recomend to use the valu7es the applet gives as guidelines of what could be the MAX dosage at a certain stage of growth.

http://www.canna-uk.com/dhtml/growschedule/index.php

hope it might help some one

I use the house & garden line right now for most of my girls..but some are getting Gh floranova and teas. Anyways...thanks for the response, and as I pointed out...I am hand watering in a run to waste method. Just to clarify...would I still water every day (RTW) with full nutes...or just add enough water/nute to keep it moist, and maybe do a RTW once or twice a week?

Sorry if this seems redundent...but I respect yours, and others opinions on growing in coco. I think the more information we share...tyhe better we can all be with this medium.

Cheers,
SH

 

[gaiusmarius]

Hey bonecarver

i understand where you are coming from with the beds of coco, for real big plants the coco slabs are not so good really. you can grow 1.5 meter plants in them easy, but if you do then you should only use the coco slabs twice. as they get filled with roots if you veg longer then a few days.

if i was gonna build a green house in the hot part of spain, i would have it setup with slabs, i would make a hole for the tank and bury it, i would use one of those big 1000 lt. oil tanks. in a green house in such a good climate, i would add some way to automatically make it dark every 12 hours. have a blind that covers the glass, then you could do 3 harvests a year maybe even 4.

in one way a bed of coco with trees is better when it comes to the plant count. so you need to decide, for real big trees your idea with the bed of coco is better then slabs, but if you want to do a fast turning sog then the slabs will be excellent.

you know even in the hottest summer when the temp was 36, my tank water didn't get warmer then 24 which was still perfectly ok. but you do need to keep the rez dark, any light that gets in will cause algae to grow and slime to develop. so i never had to cool my water, but if it gets too hot, its also not good.

you know i can't find any info on vitazyme by hesi or otherwise, have you got a link?

suburbanhomeboy, in your case i would go on doing what you have been doing. the roots are acclimatized to it now so just keep it up. if you see the fan leaves getting lighter in color it needs a bit more feed. if the fan leaves are fully dark green then you are probably giving too much. they need to have a nice green color with a lighter color on the growing tip. it certainly does no harm to give them a flush with plain phed water once in a while, that way you don't need to have so much run off every time you water.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

gaius - yeah its true - its better for platn count (like for example getting busted - god forbid) to have a few big ones instead

maybe a good idea would be to grow slabs with clones during winter and pop out as many harvests as possible - and during the summer season do big plants with a long veg - still a veg longer than a few months here would just get out of hand it seems - specially in coco that way should be able to give 1 huge harvest and several smaller (maybe 2-3 harvest during winter)

i have axcess to several kinds of thermic insolation and obviously diggin the rez down helps to keep down the temps - aslong as this is still in the shadow i have had a 25 m2 tank for the shower water before in the first house i lived in here - and in summer i had to be throwing in 5L bottles of bleach to keep it from going too funky - it was only about 20 cm below the surface.

i would most likelly have the rez in my basement/groundfloor - away form sun etc

here when the tmeps go up over 40 - during the day it can go up to 50 and at nights it almost doesnt ever go down from 35-36 degrees - but thats just during 3 months more or less of the summer - the rest is a little bit more cool. winter here is almost freezing but i bet its going to be warm enough in the greenhouse

most likelly the light from my veg locker got to the rez hehe good point

strangelly im suddenly unsure about what brand the vitazyme is..

-----

haha lol - sucks to have a memory like mine - the product is called SUPER-VIT!! sorry for the confusion

peace

 

[bonecarver_OG]

hoot - interesting the nights here in summer are even hotter than that - but as allways i can just throw in blocks of ice when its get completelly out of boundaries.. digging it down seems to be the best way

one year seems so far away
peace

 

[gaiusmarius]

wow with those kind of temps in summer you really do have a problem lol. specially if it doesn't cool off at night. it's lucky you have coco as normal hydro would have a real problem with such nute water temps. your idea of having the tank in the cellar is good. in the worst case you can always have a rez chiller just in case. it depends if you think it makes a big difference. at least i know why you can use full dose canna with such strong sunshine they must use a lot of nutrients. like you said in the coco you don't need to veg very long to get quite big plants. i think 3 weeks of veg time should be enough to get a 2 meter, if they have 18 hour days, like you say you will be able to do a few runs per year.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

the plants we have outdoors now get 30 ml /10 l i think - gotto ask my co-op partner for what exactly he is giving now - but something like that to me it looks like they could have handled a bit more - but its going well so no need to push it really

yeah - the temps can get a bit too much.. specially since i dont have aircon hehe - gonna change that in the future though a few years ago we had 54 degrees one sumemr day.. and thats in the shadow and high humidity.

heres a link to a journal about the weather in my area this summer we had 116 degrees farenheit (47 celsius) and it can get higher

http://www.thebigchorizo.com/category/daily-life-in-spain/weather-in-spain/

so yeah - ice works welll

 

[gaiusmarius]

that hesi supervit, seems like very concentrated stuff? is it expensive? i like the fact that you use only 10 ml for 65 lt. of water. i have just got a new tip from my supplier, it's called cal-gel, the stuff is also totally concentrated. it's a blue syrup which you dilute in hot water before adding to the tank. it's very interesting, because after the first time i added it to the tank my plants took a jump forward it seemed. they also had that hungry look to them, very light colored growing tips. they tell you to use it for the last 0.2 of your ec. but i need to do more testing and watching to really know what the over all effect is. they are talking about a 20% yield increase. if it does that i will be very surprised lol. but we will see, as i left out the bioboost which is five times more expensive i'll be happy enough to get a normal type of good yield, if it ends up 20% more then what i got using the bioboost it will be worth mentioning again lol.

peace out a